Off Season Progress/Notes

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

Bobby Knight might not have practiced it, but some coaches see advantages in developing well rounded players. It's one of the reasons IU landed Vonleh. Though he played inside, he got to develop his skills every day as if he were a wing player.

 

Hollowell at point guard might be laughable to some, but for a player compared to Evan Turner coming out of high school... it was a good opportunity. It doesn't always work out.

 

So much criticism with personnel decisions, and yet some pretty big time players keep lining up to play for this guy Crean... just a thought.

[BGleas 7,880]

Maybe I'm being too technical in this discussion, but what you're describing is great, and I agree Troy could be great attacking the rim. But, what you're describing is not playing point guard. Just dribbling off a screen doesn't make you a point guard.

Yogi said Troy was the backup point guard, and just like it was with Hollowell, it's a a terrible idea.

I think a lot of people struggle to consider possibilities outside of what they know as fans of basketball; Troy with the ball in his hands attacking the rim is a great thing... don't really see how that could be bad. If he's turning it over, do you really think he's going to be in that position? With the guards we have? Leave it to IU fans to overreact to a passing comment made in an interview, lbs.

Lot of concerns about this team...who plays backup point guard is the least of them. We have Yogi Ferrell, James Blackmon, Robert Johnson. In fine shape there.

[BGleas 7,880]

Putting Hollowell at point guard was a horrible decision (and yes, I said it at the time so I'm not being revisionist). The kid had yet to even establish himself at his natural position at this level. The best move for Hollowell last season, still being young and getting comfortable at this level, would have been to put him in a position to be successful, not introduce him to a totally new position.

It was a coaching mistake. Hollowell certainly had other issues, but putting at point guard before he had established himself and gotten comfortable certainly contributed to his poor season IMO.

Bobby Knight might not have practiced it, but some coaches see advantages in developing well rounded players. It's one of the reasons IU landed Vonleh. Though he played inside, he got to develop his skills every day as if he were a wing player.
 
Hollowell at point guard might be laughable to some, but for a player compared to Evan Turner coming out of high school... it was a good opportunity. It doesn't always work out.
 
So much criticism with personnel decisions, and yet some pretty big time players keep lining up to play for this guy Crean... just a thought.

[Hutch89 2,939]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnWt2gwySuw

Classic!!! Cody and Vic and Jordy after Minny game

This is the first time i've seen this! so hilarious

[OliviaPope40 6,482]

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnWt2gwySuw

 

Classic!!!  Cody and Vic and Jordy after Minny game

Do we not know how to not make taking something look obvious by giving it away?

[BubbleKnuts 569]

Although a small sample size, Troy did quite well taking people off the dribble from the top of the key. We didn't think Victor could do it initially either. To me, it actually does look like Troy could see time up top.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLL28dGMiWA

Tell me he doesn't have traits of a young Oladipo. His quick drives and jumpers are identical.


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[WayneFleekHoosier 48,096]

My brother and I were discussing that last night.  I told him about Troy running the "point" a la Oladipo.  He said, yeah that makes sense, Troy plays a lot like the Sophomore Oladipo,  lots of slashing, not a lot of shooting.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

Maybe I'm being too technical in this discussion, but what you're describing is great, and I agree Troy could be great attacking the rim. But, what you're describing is not playing point guard. Just dribbling off a screen doesn't make you a point guard.

Yogi said Troy was the backup point guard, and just like it was with Hollowell, it's a a terrible idea.

 

I agree. I'm just not putting any weight on what Yogi said; there really won't be a backup point guard as we will likely start three of them. Ferrell-Blackmon-Johnson is going to be what we end up with IMO.

 

I don't know about Jeremy...I think it could have contributed but there were so many other things going on in his life that outweigh that kind of thing IMO...

 

Positions don't really matter under Crean as far as you better be able to play more than one. Really, I think they're looking to have a team that is 4 well rounded basketball players and a post.

 

Not disagreeing with you at all... I would love to see Troy with the center ball screen, but I hope the ball isn't really in his hands outside of that in terms of initiating offense. He and Stan should be on the receiving end hitting the gaps. 

[rebelhoosier848891 9,588]

I'm ok with Troy running point occasionally once we are in the halfcourt setting up our offense. He could be great in limited situations on isolation plays when his defensive matchup favors us---that's just good basketball if he can beat his man off the dribble.

 

I'm not ok YET with Troy running point full court---as I would have to see much improved dribbling and decision-making.  Maybe Crean is seeing that in practice.  We shall see.

[hothoosiersmom5 814]

@crimsonquarry: say what now RT @AndyWittry: Yogi was asked who the options are for backup point guard. Troy Williams was first player he mentioned. #iubb

???

Troy played PG in high school at times and moved the ball very well. That's because he's not a first shoot kind of kid. He will look for the open man. It used to piss me off, when he didn't shoot and would pass it off to a kid that missed, but that's TEAM BALL. IJS


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[coonhounds 8,857]

I'm ok with Troy running point occasionally once we are in the halfcourt setting up our offense. He could be great in limited situations on isolation plays when his defensive matchup favors us---that's just good basketball if he can beat his man off the dribble.

I'm not ok YET with Troy running point full court---as I would have to see much improved dribbling and decision-making. Maybe Crean is seeing that in practice. We shall see.

it is not a stretch that he has improved both. I felt last year he could dribble just forgot to every time he took off for the basket lol. I think now with a year under his belt the college game will slow down and he will feel more comfortable now he will realize he can beat his man even with the dribble and when the game slows it will help decision making also. We will see but I think we will see a more confident team this year!

[schoosier 3,464]

I think a lot of people struggle to consider possibilities outside of what they know as fans of basketball; Troy with the ball in his hands attacking the rim is a great thing... don't really see how that could be bad. If he's turning it over, do you really think he's going to be in that position? With the guards we have? Leave it to IU fans to overreact to a passing comment made in an interview, lbs.
 
Lot of concerns about this team...who plays backup point guard is the least of them. We have Yogi Ferrell, James Blackmon, Robert Johnson. In fine shape there.

Do those same fans struggle to see we have fewer inside players than probably everyone else in the league? And considering this, do they also struggle to see Troy playing 5 when our limited bigs get into foul trouble early? These are the same ones promoting Troy at point guard away from the basket so he has no rebounding prescence. If Crean is actually promoting doing this on a guard heavy team, all the limited credit I have ever given him I take back.

[schoosier 3,464]

Bobby Knight might not have practiced it, but some coaches see advantages in developing well rounded players. It's one of the reasons IU landed Vonleh. Though he played inside, he got to develop his skills every day as if he were a wing player.
 
Hollowell at point guard might be laughable to some, but for a player compared to Evan Turner coming out of high school... it was a good opportunity. It doesn't always work out.
 
So much criticism with personnel decisions, and yet some pretty big time players keep lining up to play for this guy Crean... just a thought.

Crean couldn't hold Knights jock in any form of coaching that you can think. Knight developing well rounded players and students combined for championships and diplomas. How many of each will Crean finish with this year? Josh Pastner would be a better comparison to Crean or maybe Jaime Dixon, Bob Huggins, or John Cheaney. None has won anything past maybe a conference championship but a more realistic comparison.

[Stuhoo 79,982]

Do those same fans struggle to see we have fewer inside players than probably everyone else in the league? And considering this, do they also struggle to see Troy playing 5 when our limited bigs get into foul trouble early? These are the same ones promoting Troy at point guard away from the basket so he has no rebounding prescence. If Crean is actually promoting doing this on a guard heavy team, all the limited credit I have ever given him I take back.

 

 

Crean couldn't hold Knights jock in any form of coaching that you can think. Knight developing well rounded players and students combined for championships and diplomas. How many of each will Crean finish with this year? Josh Pastner would be a better comparison to Crean or maybe Jaime Dixon, Bob Huggins, or John Cheaney. None has won anything past maybe a conference championship but a more realistic comparison.

 

schoosier: YOU NEED TO WATCH THIS VIDEO!  It could change your life!!

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRC4Vk6kisY

[BGleas 7,880]

I'm with you on the coaching side, Crean is certainly no Bob Knight. But, to question Crean on the academics side is pretty ridiculous. Is there another coach in this era at a school like IU in basketball that is having kids graduate in 3 years. Having kids leave with undergrad and masters degrees when their eligibility is up?

Just because there isn't a senior this year doesn't mean Crean doesn't value academics. The list of players leaving with degrees under Crean is a long one.

Crean couldn't hold Knights jock in any form of coaching that you can think. Knight developing well rounded players and students combined for championships and diplomas. How many of each will Crean finish with this year? Josh Pastner would be a better comparison to Crean or maybe Jaime Dixon, Bob Huggins, or John Cheaney. None has won anything past maybe a conference championship but a more realistic comparison.

[BlueDevil 8,683]

Do those same fans struggle to see we have fewer inside players than probably everyone else in the league? And considering this, do they also struggle to see Troy playing 5 when our limited bigs get into foul trouble early? These are the same ones promoting Troy at point guard away from the basket so he has no rebounding prescence. If Crean is actually promoting doing this on a guard heavy team, all the limited credit I have ever given him I take back.

I don't know if I see our bigs being that big of a problem in conference play there aren't really that many overpowering bigs in the conference this year. MSU and MICH tallest player on their roster stands at 6'9" plus we haven't seen hanner to see if he has improved. We haven't even seen our bigs in a game that matters yet so I don't know about foul trouble either. I think we will be fine if our guards can limit penetration.

[schoosier 3,464]

I don't know if I see our bigs being that big of a problem in conference play there aren't really that many overpowering bigs in the conference this year. MSU and MICH tallest player on their roster stands at 6'9" plus we haven't seen hanner to see if he has improved. We haven't even seen our bigs in a game that matters yet so I don't know about foul trouble either. I think we will be fine if our guards can limit penetration.

Both Devin and Hanner had foul issues in limited minutes. Now add extended minutes for both and that's the sum total of our bigs outside 3 true freshman. Kaminsky, Hammons, Ohio transfer and others if I had their rosters handy. Depth and experience leads me to believe Crean needs to think outside the box in game planning, and Troy at point is exactly opposite of that. Troy needs to rebound for us if we have any chance of being successful this year. Who else is gonna get the rebounds?

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Both Devin and Hanner had foul issues in limited minutes. Now add extended minutes for both and that's the sum total of our bigs outside 3 true freshman. Kaminsky, Hammons, Ohio transfer and others if I had their rosters handy. Depth and experience leads me to believe Crean needs to think outside the box in game planning, and Troy at point is exactly opposite of that. Troy needs to rebound for us if we have any chance of being successful this year. Who else is gonna get the rebounds?

They both had foul trouble on a terrible team with no shooting and no ability to spread the floor. Once again, to address your earlier comment, there is no reason Troy would play the 5 when we have HMP, DD, and Holt in front of him. We are more likely to see a "big" lineup with HMP at the 5, DD or Holt at the 4, and Troy playing a guard position. Troy can play out to the perimeter as a guard, not farther into the post as a 5.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

Do those same fans struggle to see we have fewer inside players than probably everyone else in the league? And considering this, do they also struggle to see Troy playing 5 when our limited bigs get into foul trouble early? These are the same ones promoting Troy at point guard away from the basket so he has no rebounding prescence. If Crean is actually promoting doing this on a guard heavy team, all the limited credit I have ever given him I take back.

Who is Indiana going to be overmatched against inside? Kaminsky? Hammons? I'll take my chances. If they want to make it a game of one v. one in the post for their offense, have at it... they won't be able to outscore our perimeter players with their inside attack. Maybe instead of watching Crean coach this year, you could pop in some VHS tapes from 1989 and rub one out.

 

If you can't see the benefits of using Troy to attack the rim, you lack an understanding of what this offense is built around. You can score at the rim without having a "post presence." And Indiana's going to do a lot of scoring at the rim with some 6 footers.

 

Rebounding has nothing to do with the size of our players; I highly doubt that it will be an issue considering Crean's past teams.

 

It is troubling that everything has to be a knock on Tom Crean with you. What did he do to you? Ruin your precious little program? More like saved it from the abyss.

 

He's done a damn fine job here; and if he can wade through the all-out negativity/instant gratification of fans like you, we're going to have a contender in another year. We might have one this year, but we'll have to see how they mesh.

 

I really don't think you understand that he isn't trying to be old Indiana. That Indiana is never coming back, because it can't win in the game today. You can laugh at that, and do the typical "this isn't real Indiana basketball and you kids don't understand" but the reality is that you fail to acknowledge that Indiana basketball can go to another level with Tom Crean because he came here for the long haul--to build a program. It took three years to lay a foundation, we've already had one Big Ten title, and we are set up to have the next great team. But all you can focus on is where Troy Williams might play in special situations and how he has to get all of our rebounds? Is your next point going to be about how Tom Crean's haircut distracts our players during timeouts?

 

Get a grip. You're certainly granted an opinion, but at least be fair/realistic/anything that isn't flat out condescending and cynical.

[MikeRoberts 6,945]

Who is Indiana going to be overmatched against inside? Kaminsky? Hammons? I'll take my chances. If they want to make it a game of one v. one in the post for their offense, have at it... they won't be able to outscore our perimeter players with their inside attack. Maybe instead of watching Crean coach this year, you could pop in some VHS tapes from 1989 and rub one out.

If you can't see the benefits of using Troy to attack the rim, you lack an understanding of what this offense is built around. You can score at the rim without having a "post presence." And Indiana's going to do a lot of scoring at the rim with some 6 footers.

Rebounding has nothing to do with the size of our players; I highly doubt that it will be an issue considering Crean's past teams.

It is troubling that everything has to be a knock on Tom Crean with you. What did he do to you? Ruin your precious little program? More like saved it from the abyss.

He's done a damn fine job here; and if he can wade through the all-out negativity/instant gratification of fans like you, we're going to have a contender in another year. We might have one this year, but we'll have to see how they mesh.

I really don't think you understand that he isn't trying to be old Indiana. That Indiana is never coming back, because it can't win in the game today. You can laugh at that, and do the typical "this isn't real Indiana basketball and you kids don't understand" but the reality is that you fail to acknowledge that Indiana basketball can go to another level with Tom Crean because he came here for the long haul--to build a program. It took three years to lay a foundation, we've already had one Big Ten title, and we are set up to have the next great team. But all you can focus on is where Troy Williams might play in special situations and how he has to get all of our rebounds? Is your next point going to be about how Tom Crean's haircut distracts our players during timeouts?

Get a grip. You're certainly granted an opinion, but at least be fair/realistic/anything that isn't flat out condescending and cynical.

I agree with a lot of what you wrote except he was just saying that Troy should not be our backup point and he shouldn't for a lot of reasons. There is a difference between him slashing to the hoop and being our prominent ball handler


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