Tom Crean Poll

[HoosierReb01 7,511]

What do you mean?

I think he meant that, Too Long, should have been a option.

[mdn82 25,546]

I think he meant that, Too Long, should have been a option.

Lol, everyone is a critic.  

[mdn82 25,546]

Lol, Natty you sunshine pumper...

[IU Hoosier41 14,465]

JSHoosier - question for you.

You point out Crean's track record of mediocre, and you clearly want a new coach that has been to elite 8's, final 4's and possibly won a championship. Who fits all of your criteria that would come to Indiana right now? Disregard Crean's buyout etc. If the change happened today, who would you want to fill his shoes?


I'm not sold on Crean, but I do think he is the best option for Indiana. I don't think we could get anyone better, with better records, better history to come to Indiana. This isn't just about wanting to fire a coach and move on. Who would do better at IU?


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[JSHoosier 20,608]

JSHoosier - question for you.

You point out Crean's track record of mediocre, and you clearly want a new coach that has been to elite 8's, final 4's and possibly won a championship. Who fits all of your criteria that would come to Indiana right now? Disregard Crean's buyout etc. If the change happened today, who would you want to fill his shoes?


I'm not sold on Crean, but I do think he is the best option for Indiana. I don't think we could get anyone better, with better records, better history to come to Indiana. This isn't just about wanting to fire a coach and move on. Who would do better at IU?


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I point it out because it's not a short tenure, it's 9 years.  The one good run, the only good run, he had looks like more and more like a fluke every year.  We should expect to be competing for the B1G every year, not necessarily win but competing for it, Crean really didn't do that in CUSA and absolutely didn't in the Big East.  It'd have to be a coach at a smaller school, but we should look at someone that's been competing and let's be real that does not apply to Crean.

 

The coach I'd love to have is Stevens, but he's in Boston now.

[IU Hoosier41 14,465]

[quote name="JSHoosier" post="45433" timestamp="1394221982"]I point it out because it's not a short tenure, it's 9 years. The one good run, the only good run, he had looks like more and more like a fluke every year. We should expect to be competing for the B1G every year, not necessarily win but competing for it, Crean really didn't do that in CUSA and absolutely didn't in the Big East. It'd have to be a coach at a smaller school, but we should look at someone that's been competing and let's be real that does not apply to Crean.

The coach I'd love to have is Stevens, but he's in Boston now.[/quote]

You're proving my point... We can look for said mythical coach all day long, but if they don't exist.... Just name me one coach that would come to IU, that has the pedigree you and other Hoosiers want, and will consistently have us challenging for the big ten and Final fours and Championships...

Tom Crean is Indiana's best option. It's Fred Glass's job to find the best possible coach for the Hoosiers. Tom Crean wouldn't be the coach right now if there were a better option out there.

(And don't take this negatively about Crean, it applies everywhere. Tom Izzo wouldn't be Michigan States coach if the MSU AD though another person could and would do better.)


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[Rayl 527]

You're proving my point... We can look for said mythical coach all day long, but if they don't exist.... Just name me one coach that would come to IU, that has the pedigree you and other Hoosiers want, and will consistently have us challenging for the big ten and Final fours and Championships...

Tom Crean is Indiana's best option. It's Fred Glass's job to find the best possible coach for the Hoosiers. Tom Crean wouldn't be the coach right now if there were a better option out there.

(And don't take this negatively about Crean, it applies everywhere. Tom Izzo wouldn't be Michigan States coach if the MSU AD though another person could and would do better.)


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You are thinking about this all wrong. We don't need to get a guy with a proven resume. The guys who have proven themselves are few and far between and they aren't coming to IU.

 

But, somewhere out there is the next great crop of young coaches waiting for schools to discover. Somewhere out there are the next Boeheims, Izzos, Roy Williams and Coach Ks. Look at their resumes before they got their gigs. They would be rejected as unproven by many IU fans so we might as well settle for Crean. Or think about if we had hired Stevens six years ago before he had proven himself. What if we had been the school to identify him as a great coaching talent?

 

What we need to do is talk to great coaches. Pick up the phone and call Bill Self. Call Coach K. Call Boeheim and Williams. Call them all. Talk to them about who has the talent. What young coaches do they think have what it takes to run an elite program?

 

Let's find that young coach and find him before everyone else on the planet wants him. It's what we did with McCracken and Knight. Let's let that young coach prove himself at IU. That's the only way that we are going to hit a grand slam. Sure, we might strike out. We'll have to be willing to fire the coach if he doesn't work out. But, why the hell shouldn't we look for someone who can be our next great coach for 20 or 30 years? If we know Crean isn't that guy, let's try to find someone who is.

 

I don't know who that guy is. I have some ideas that if I were Glass I would run by today's elite coaches. I'm particularly intrigued by Danny Manning, but that just might be because I KNOW he can coach big men. But, we can call and ask about some former IU players too. Or assistants who just need a chance.

 

We are Indiana. Let's swing for the fences instead of settling for a double.

[HoosierAloha 30,077]

We should totally just keep hiring and firing coaches after 2-4 years until we find the diamond in the rough. I like it!


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[BlueDevil 8,827]

Would have no problem keeping crean if he was willing to change his half court offense.

[wirenuts 1,056]

While I see the point of hunting diamonds in the rough, the thought also scares me a little. Even after extensive phone calls to many different coaches, we still won't really be sure what the coach will be bring. My point is indiana's tradition isn't just being a contender every year. You also have to be a great recruiter because the high end state talent are going to other big ten squads. You also have to respect the tradition of making sure graduation rates are sky high, being a great ambassador for the school, and making sure you run the program squeaky clean. If you are gonna swing for the fences, so to speak, why not go for the likes of cheaney, crews etc..?


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[IU Hoosier41 14,465]

[quote name="Rayl" post="45448" timestamp="1394225824"]You are thinking about this all wrong. We don't need to get a guy with a proven resume. The guys who have proven themselves are few and far between and they aren't coming to IU.

But, somewhere out there is the next great crop of young coaches waiting for schools to discover. Somewhere out there are the next Boeheims, Izzos, Roy Williams and Coach Ks. Look at their resumes before they got their gigs. They would be rejected as unproven by many IU fans so we might as well settle for Crean. Or think about if we had hired Stevens six years ago before he had proven himself. What if we had been the school to identify him as a great coaching talent?

What we need to do is talk to great coaches. Pick up the phone and call Bill Self. Call Coach K. Call Boeheim and Williams. Call them all. Talk to them about who has the talent. What young coaches do they think have what it takes to run an elite program?

Let's find that young coach and find him before everyone else on the planet wants him. It's what we did with McCracken and Knight. Let's let that young coach prove himself at IU. That's the only way that we are going to hit a grand slam. Sure, we might strike out. We'll have to be willing to fire the coach if he doesn't work out. But, why the hell shouldn't we look for someone who can be our next great coach for 20 or 30 years? If we know Crean isn't that guy, let's try to find someone who is.

I don't know who that guy is. I have some ideas that if I were Glass I would run by today's elite coaches. I'm particularly intrigued by Danny Manning, but that just might be because I KNOW he can coach big men. But, we can call and ask about some former IU players too. Or assistants who just need a chance.

We are Indiana. Let's swing for the fences instead of settling for a double.[/quote]

Swinging for the fences isn't exactly the phrase I think of after reading your post. I'd say trial and error or needle in a haystack would be better mottos. I'm just saying, Crean has done a good job at IU so far. He's developed a culture here that takes a couple years for players to understand and adjust. If we can ever get our classes evened out I think we'll see that.

I'll say it again though, until someone can name a name they'd hire today, Coach Crean stays put. Just because you want someone gone doesn't mean they should go if you don't have any better options available.

... And if IU hired some random little school dude I would LOOOOOVE to see how après sh*t Hoosiers go when we hired a nobody. Cracks me up how IU. Fans want an up and comer, but they need to be established and a big name cus we're Indiana damnit! Lol


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[Rayl 527]

While I see the point of hunting diamonds in the rough, the thought also scares me a little. Even after extensive phone calls to many different coaches, we still won't really be sure what the coach will be bring. My point is indiana's tradition isn't just being a contender every year. You also have to be a great recruiter because the high end state talent are going to other big ten squads. You also have to respect the tradition of making sure graduation rates are sky high, being a great ambassador for the school, and making sure you run the program squeaky clean. If you are gonna swing for the fences, so to speak, why not go for the likes of cheaney, crews etc..?


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I think you can call and ask about the IU guys, but I don't want to see us limit ourselves to them because they are Indiana guys. If people in the know think that they have what it takes, then great. But, we would be making a mistake to assume they have it because they used to wear the candy stripes.

[Rayl 527]

Swinging for the fences isn't exactly the phrase I think of after reading your post. I'd say trial and error or needle in a haystack would be better mottos. I'm just saying, Crean has done a good job at IU so far. He's developed a culture here that takes a couple years for players to understand and adjust. If we can ever get our classes evened out I think we'll see that.

I'll say it again though, until someone can name a name they'd hire today, Coach Crean stays put. Just because you want someone gone doesn't mean they should go if you don't have any better options available.

... And if IU hired some random little school dude I would LOOOOOVE to see how après sh*t Hoosiers go when we hired a nobody. Cracks me up how IU. Fans want an up and comer, but they need to be established and a big name cus we're Indiana damnit! Lol


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We'll just have to agree and to disagree. I'd rather try to find someone great rather than settle for the mediocrity that is Crean. And, I really don't give two cents if some fans would go apesh*t over a hire. They did that when Knight was hired. That might have worked out OK.

[BlueDevil 8,827]

I think I agree with rayl and 41. I like the idea of swinging for the fence but enough times of doing that can really kill a program. I know people want IU to contend for a final four or natty every year but being an outsider for so long up until this season I just haven't seen how those expectations are fair for a program that really hasn't made too many runs back to the final four since 87. I'm in no way dogging the program because I have lots of respect for indiana basketball. Like I said I'm no crean fan because i don't like his style but expecting this guy to go to multiple final fours when the program itself has been to just 2 since 87 is really unreasonable right now.

[JSHoosier 20,608]

You're proving my point... We can look for said mythical coach all day long, but if they don't exist.... Just name me one coach that would come to IU, that has the pedigree you and other Hoosiers want, and will consistently have us challenging for the big ten and Final fours and Championships...

Tom Crean is Indiana's best option. It's Fred Glass's job to find the best possible coach for the Hoosiers. Tom Crean wouldn't be the coach right now if there were a better option out there.

(And don't take this negatively about Crean, it applies everywhere. Tom Izzo wouldn't be Michigan States coach if the MSU AD though another person could and would do better.)


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Izzo and MSU is a really bad example.  They can look at a great track record and think that, we don't.

 

Crean rebuilt the program, but that doesn't mean he's the right guy going forward.  When I was there, and Mike Davis was coach, the AD said he will not accept mediocrity from the Indiana men's basketball program.  Why should we do it now?  If history repeats itself, it means unless Crean drastically improves he probably won't take us there.  There's really nothing we have to say he's a "good coach", other than hopes and dreams.  He's never maintained success, when has he shown he can push the right buttons at the right time?  Or that he can make adjustments on the fly?  Or that he can adapt his system to fit his players?

[IU Hoosier41 14,465]

[quote name="JSHoosier" post="45477" timestamp="1394235227"]Izzo and MSU is a really bad example. They can look at a great track record and think that, we don't.

Crean rebuilt the program, but that doesn't mean he's the right guy going forward. When I was there, and Mike Davis was coach, the AD said he will not accept mediocrity from the Indiana men's basketball program. Why should we do it now? If history repeats itself, it means unless Crean drastically improves he probably won't take us there. There's really nothing we have to say he's a "good coach", other than hopes and dreams. He's never maintained success, when has he shown he can push the right buttons at the right time? Or that he can make adjustments on the fly? Or that he can adapt his system to fit his players?[/quote]

It's not a bad analogy at all. You don't look at past success. If the Michigan State AD thinks Coach X would be better than Coach IZZO than it is his job to fill the position with the most talented person.

I'm not a Crean supporter. I don't think he will win a championship here. But I also don't think Indiana's success should be measured on championships anymore. Just as the game passed over Bob Kinight, the National Contender status has passed over IU.


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[Woodsonshump 305]

The biggest thing the IUBB program needs right now is mega stability.  The biggest thing IU fans need right now is just what was mentioned above.  A buttload of patience.  Trust me, 6 years in, we haven't even begun to scratch the surface of patience.  I'd just about be willing to bet my next paycheck that, while on the surface, this program looks like it is back, there's still a lot of stuff that still is being ironed out and rebuilt.  

 

Throw what you think of Crean out the door for a moment.  Don't even factor that in.  There is no disputing the fact that this coach has been EXACTLY what IU has needed with regard to rebuilding.  None of us here know exactly where the program is right now.  We only know what we see, and what it appears to be.  Now, you can take that and choose to run with it and say it's back, but I'm not so sure of that position.  I think CTC is still rebuilding relationships as it pertains to recruiting that were shattered over the last dozen or so years.  I think CTC, while he has a very solid foundation laid that was visibly apparent when he made the decision to gut the program the rest of the way and start from scratch, is still fine tuning the culture, the operations, the people he recruits, and even the staff he employs.  I just honestly believe that what we see isn't what it is.  That's where my call for extended patience comes in.

 

I know folks will disagree with what I've said, but I think that to get to where we all want to be, the last thing we need is more turbulence in the program.  We need that extended period of stability, and allow the remainder of this rebuild that we aren't seeing to play out.

[HoosierAloha 30,077]

^^^^Is there a way to like this more than once?





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[JSHoosier 20,608]

It's not a bad analogy at all. You don't look at past success. If the Michigan State AD thinks Coach X would be better than Coach IZZO than it is his job to fill the position with the most talented person.

I'm not a Crean supporter. I don't think he will win a championship here. But I also don't think Indiana's success should be measured on championships anymore. Just as the game passed over Bob Kinight, the National Contender status has passed over IU.


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I feel we should hold ourselves to that measure, if we don't how do we expect to get back?  If we don't expect more we'll always try to excuse any results Crean gets.  If we're not going to hold ourselves to that measure there is no reason Mike Davis shouldn't still be here.

[Rayl 527]

It's not a bad analogy at all. You don't look at past success. If the Michigan State AD thinks Coach X would be better than Coach IZZO than it is his job to fill the position with the most talented person. I'm not a Crean supporter. I don't think he will win a championship here. But I also don't think Indiana's success should be measured on championships anymore. Just as the game passed over Bob Kinight, the National Contender status has passed over IU. Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

Ironic sentiment given your site's name.

Some of us do want to get back to national contender status and are not willing to settle for less.