Thoughts on Crowd Booing CTC/ Players?

[Hovadipo 55,281]

[quote name="mdn82" post="35147" timestamp="1391478434"]Funny thing is, I am typically one of the more critical people here. [/quote]

He drives me insane too, I just normally keep it off of the board.


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[BlueDevil 8,683]

[quote name="mdn82" post="35147" timestamp="1391478434"]Funny thing is, I am typically one of the more critical people here. [/quote]

The thing is the critical people (one being myself) praise crean when he does coach a good game or do something great. It just doesn't happen on a consistent basis for me to be satisfied.

[TrueHoosier62 1,592]

Well then.  Let me address the first paragraph first so there is no confusion.  I don't give a damn what your perception of any place we came is.  You followed us here.  If you came here to troll, because of your perception of people on another site, you can just leave.  If you have followed us you know our rules.  That is all I will really say about that.  

 

Second paragraph.  You are not a Crean hater?  You said that in your first flipping post.  Let me understand, you are absolutely certain he will fail, but you still like him?  Hmm..  Not buying that.  I am young and all, and I believe everything I am told.  That is what the cookie crowd does.  God knows you are old enough to know what greatness is if you want RMK here.  His last title was almost 30 years ago.  Yes he has the titles to show it, but he couldn't crack it in modern recruiting.  He couldn't even crack it in 90s recruiting (Again 20 years ago yet you still want him as our coach).  He was great, and I am old enough to remember IU winning under him.  You speak in a lot of absolutes for someone who is not a Crean hater.  If that upsets the geezers living under the glory years of yesteryear then, sit back and enjoy some Ensure with our Cookies.  I guess I will go back to enjoying the nipple with my cookie.  Youth always wins!  Hope the new place is to your liking.  If you truly feel people here are loving all thing Crean here, you might come to a game thread.  If not, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.  Which I am guessing you don't, because you have a perception of people based on their discussions.  Not speaking in absolutes like yourself.  

Did I really say I hated Crean? I don't recall saying that. I might have said he wasn't a good coach, or that he's not capably of winning a Championship, but you're the youngster here, so perhaps your memory is better than mine. Thirty years ago or 10 years ago, it doesn't matter. Time can't erase the greatness achieved by former teams and coaches, and which current teams and coaches will be measured. Surely you're old enough to understand that concept, yes?

Troll? Nope, not even close. I'm just not they type of person who can look at the mess that's running up and down the court these days and make excuses for it, or pretent its some burgeoning championship calibur team. You don't like absolutes? Ok. I apologize. We have the same chances then, of winning a championship, as does Nebraska. Better?

Relax, take a deep breath, have another beer. Enjoy the evening. We're only expressing opinions here, not debating world affairs.

[mdn82 25,510]

Did I really say I hated Crean? I don't recall saying that. I might have said he wasn't a good coach, or that he's not capably of winning a Championship, but you're the youngster here, so perhaps your memory is better than mine. Thirty years ago or 10 years ago, it doesn't matter. Time can't erase the greatness achieved by former teams and coaches, and which current teams and coaches will be measured. Surely you're old enough to understand that concept, yes?

Troll? Nope, not even close. I'm just not they type of person who can look at the mess that's running up and down the court these days and make excuses for it, or pretent its some burgeoning championship calibur team. You don't like absolutes? Ok. I apologize. We have the same chances then, of winning a championship, as does Nebraska. Better?

Relax, take a deep breath, have another beer. Enjoy the evening. We're only expressing opinions here, not debating world affairs.

 

Difference between "opinions" is mine can be adjusted if I see a good reason to or have sufficient evidence in that way.  I just hate talking to brick walls.  What is the point in coming to a place like this if there is no discussion?  If everything is so cut and dry, why say it?  Same chance as Nebraska?  Lol, ok.  I will have what you are drinking.  I am old enough to understand that basketball evolves.  The motion offense worked in its era.  Variations of it have done well.  So, since time doesn't matter, does John Wooden win as many titles now as he did then?  I mean, if greatness is greatness.  That is what you said.  His teams were loaded, almost as if he cheated to get the best players there…  Knight, imo, was the first truly great "coach".  He could truly win with less than any coach before him.  He had great players, but he made mediocre talents look really good when they did what he wanted.  The days of a mechanical offense are over unfortunately.  I wish we had some as semblance of an offense that wasn't so reliant on just pick and rolls.  We are very successful when we utilize back screens.  Not sure why we don't do more of that with the athletes we have.  Same as the year before Cody, IMO.  We have some talent, but Crean will not change himself to the talent he has.  I think that is wrong.  I don't think it is as cut and dry as you that he won't win a title.  If John Calipari can win a title, Tom Crean can as well.  He is typically decent at game planning, but his in game severely lacks.  His adjustments hurt us.  If he does not win a title in the next 5 years, I am sure some will call for his head.  I think that is wrong on a few levels.  Mainly due to coaches like Calhoun, Boeheim, Gary Williams, and Lute Olsen.  Those are winning coaches who took years to win a title.  I know you know who those coaches are and those coaches consistently had questions until they won.  Crean will be no different.  I think at a place like this it is the way it should be.  

[JSHoosier 19,932]

Difference between "opinions" is mine can be adjusted if I see a good reason to or have sufficient evidence in that way.  I just hate talking to brick walls.  What is the point in coming to a place like this if there is no discussion?  If everything is so cut and dry, why say it?  Same chance as Nebraska?  Lol, ok.  I will have what you are drinking.  I am old enough to understand that basketball evolves.  The motion offense worked in its era.  Variations of it have done well.  So, since time doesn't matter, does John Wooden win as many titles now as he did then?  I mean, if greatness is greatness.  That is what you said.  His teams were loaded, almost as if he cheated to get the best players there…  Knight, imo, was the first truly great "coach".  He could truly win with less than any coach before him.  He had great players, but he made mediocre talents look really good when they did what he wanted.  The days of a mechanical offense are over unfortunately.  I wish we had some as semblance of an offense that wasn't so reliant on just pick and rolls.  We are very successful when we utilize back screens.  Not sure why we don't do more of that with the athletes we have.  Same as the year before Cody, IMO.  We have some talent, but Crean will not change himself to the talent he has.  I think that is wrong.  I don't think it is as cut and dry as you that he won't win a title.  If John Calipari can win a title, Tom Crean can as well.  He is typically decent at game planning, but his in game severely lacks.  His adjustments hurt us.  If he does not win a title in the next 5 years, I am sure some will call for his head.  I think that is wrong on a few levels.  Mainly due to coaches like Calhoun, Boeheim, Gary Williams, and Lute Olsen.  Those are winning coaches who took years to win a title.  I know you know who those coaches are and those coaches consistently had questions until they won.  Crean will be no different.  I think at a place like this it is the way it should be.  

I don't know if it's a good comparison saying Crean can if Cal can.  Cal made a Final Four with UMASS, and then went back (and coached in the championship game) with Memphis.  They were both vacated, but he had shown he could get their multiple times.

 

Crean made it once, and followed it with nothing but mediocre.

[cappymo14 2,276]

Iowa St. @ Oklahoma St.  Just went 2OT ON ESPN

[cappymo14 2,276]

Iowa St. @ Oklahoma St.  Just went 2OT ON ESPN

Check that,  now starting 3OT

[IU Hoosier41 14,465]

[quote name="djsalway" post="35042" timestamp="1391458056"]Still of the opinion that they weren't booing coach Crean or the players on the court.[/quote]

I was there, it was 100% booing Crean.


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[Dave from Dayton 3,030]

My wife and I, sitting at home, both were not happy with this substitution.  I yelled "Noooo!" 

 

I believe that booing one's own coach or players is in bad taste and bad form.  But, sometimes it may be appropriate.  Ghandi reminded us that nonviolent opposition to authority may be an appropriate response at times.  It may be perceived as in bad taste by many. The subs are fully sentient.  They realize that the booing is in context.  It is about Crean's subbing all the way down the bench.  The crowd perceived it as being an inappropriate substitution.  Some may question the crowd's or fans' right to boo their own team/players/coach.  However, it is the fans' opinion voiced in the boos.  They are entitled to their opinions.Yes, the individual players may feel bad.  Well, some of the crowd and fans felt bad, too.  I felt bad that Crean, on the surface, appeared to substitute incorrectly.  No, I'm not the coach.  But, there is a history here.  Why does Crean not institute a decent half court offense?  Why does Crean play run and gun type ball preconference knowing that in conference the defenses will dictate that a decent half court offense is part of the weaponry that a team will need?  I support the team.  I support Coach Crean.  I yearn for Crean to do well.  By booing his action specifically in measured doses...actually supports IU.  And yes, it seems in bad form.  But, in this case, I support the boos.

[OliviaPope40 6,474]

Here's what was in today's Indy Star by Zach Osterman.

BLOOMINGTON Tom Crean responded Monday to the apparent booing of Indiana fans a day earlier during IU's upset of Michigan.

Fans appeared to boo Crean's substitution patterns in the first half of Sunday's win. In a four-plus-minute span midway through the first half, Michigan compiled a 6-0 run with one IU starter, Stanford Robinson, on the floor.

A member of the audience at Crean's show took a microphone to tell IU's coach that he was "embarrassed" that fans would boo any Hoosier. Crean thanked the man before responding.

"I learned a long time ago, if you coach long enough, you're gonna see a little bit of everything," he said.

Crean said his lineup at that moment was meant to rest some of Indiana's starters.

"The bottom line is, we have to rest players," he said. "I don't have any concern on that. … We've got to continue to build depth, and the only way you build depth is to get guys to be consistent."

When Michigan moved its run to 6-0 on a Zak Irvinnlayup, Crean called timeout. He subbed out four players – Austin Etherington, Jonny Marlin, Jeff Howard and Robinson – and Indiana finished the half on a 15-9 run.

"And when moves don't work out, you know what?" Crean said, "I'd boo me too then."

http://www.indystar.com/story/hoosier-insider/2014/02/03/tom-crean-indiana-hoosiers/5194719/

[BlueDevil 8,683]

[quote name="OliviaPope40" post="35294" timestamp="1391549841"]Here's what was in today's Indy Star by Zach Osterman.
[color=rgb(51,51,51)][font=arial]BLOOMINGTON[/font][/color][color=rgb(51,51,51)][font=arial] Tom Crean responded Monday to the apparent booing of Indiana fans a day earlier during IU's upset of Michigan.[/font][/color]
[color=rgb(51,51,51)][font=arial]Fans appeared to boo Crean's substitution patterns in the first half of Sunday's win. In a four-plus-minute span midway through the first half, Michigan compiled a 6-0 run with one IU starter, Stanford Robinson, on the floor.[/font][/color]
[color=rgb(51,51,51)][font=arial]A member of the audience at Crean's show took a microphone to tell IU's coach that he was "embarrassed" that fans would boo any Hoosier. Crean thanked the man before responding.[/font][/color]
[color=rgb(51,51,51)][font=arial]"I learned a long time ago, if you coach long enough, you're gonna see a little bit of everything," he said.[/font][/color]
[color=rgb(51,51,51)][font=arial]Crean said his lineup at that moment was meant to rest some of Indiana's starters.[/font][/color]
[color=rgb(51,51,51)][font=arial]"The bottom line is, we have to rest players," he said. "I don't have any concern on that. … We've got to continue to build depth, and the only way you build depth is to get guys to be consistent."[/font][/color]
[color=rgb(51,51,51)][font=arial]When Michigan moved its run to 6-0 on a Zak Irvinnlayup, Crean called timeout. He subbed out four players – Austin Etherington, Jonny Marlin, Jeff Howard and Robinson – and Indiana finished the half on a 15-9 run.[/font][/color]
[color=rgb(51,51,51)][font=arial]"And when moves don't work out, you know what?" Crean said, "I'd boo me too then."[/font][/color]
[url="http://www.indystar.com/story/hoosier-insider/2014/02/03/tom-crean-indiana-hoosiers/5194719/"][color=rgb(51,51,51)][font=arial]http://www.indystar.com/story/hoosier-insider/2014/02/03/tom-crean-indiana-hoosiers/5194719/[/font][/color][/url][/quote]

I think he's trying to create too much depth. I don't see the need to be playing 13 guys in one half let alone one game. These constant substitutions aren't getting any consistency because guys aren't out there for very long before being subbed for except a yogi. He's gotta stick with a group of guys to get some guys some freakin confidence.

[Frodaddy10 83]

True Hoosier I was greeted the same way by the thought police who don't like someone who doesn't very carefully craft thoughtful criticisms of the team and coach that won't result in any players or coaches being sad. You will be called classless and demoted to the mean spirited minority. I really enjoy the youthful ignorance on display because someday life experience will help them self adjust. They didn't live through greatness like we did so they have no platform from which to understand RMK and the spirit of that era when we walked around all puffy chested because we were the cocks of the walk. They read about in a few books and heard stories but never bathed in Showalter fountain. Good luck!


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[Dalton26 16,892]

[quote name="Frodaddy10" post="35305" timestamp="1391554557"]True Hoosier I was greeted the same way by the thought police who don't like someone who doesn't very carefully craft thoughtful criticisms of the team and coach that won't result in any players or coaches being sad. You will be called classless and demoted to the mean spirited minority. I really enjoy the youthful ignorance on display because someday life experience will help them self adjust. They didn't live through greatness like we did so they have no platform from which to understand RMK and the spirit of that era when we walked around all puffy chested because we were the ***** of the walk. They read about in a few books and heard stories but never bathed in Showalter fountain. Good luck! Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners[/quote] What exactly are you talking about? Carefully crafted criticism? People say what they think and they don't sugarcoat it. Youthful ignorance and life experiences helping people adjust? Give me a break. Come down from that high horse and join us anytime. Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

[BlueDevil 8,683]

[quote name="Frodaddy10" post="35305" timestamp="1391554557"]True Hoosier I was greeted the same way by the thought police who don't like someone who doesn't very carefully craft thoughtful criticisms of the team and coach that won't result in any players or coaches being sad. You will be called classless and demoted to the mean spirited minority. I really enjoy the youthful ignorance on display because someday life experience will help them self adjust. They didn't live through greatness like we did so they have no platform from which to understand RMK and the spirit of that era when we walked around all puffy chested because we were the ***** of the walk. They read about in a few books and heard stories but never bathed in Showalter fountain. Good luck!


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Man oh man the real life uncle Rico get out of the glory days and join us man. Those times are long gone.

[All_Hoosiers 873]

[quote name="Frodaddy10" post="35305" timestamp="1391554557"]True Hoosier I was greeted the same way by the thought police who don't like someone who doesn't very carefully craft thoughtful criticisms of the team and coach that won't result in any players or coaches being sad. You will be called classless and demoted to the mean spirited minority. I really enjoy the youthful ignorance on display because someday life experience will help them self adjust. They didn't live through greatness like we did so they have no platform from which to understand RMK and the spirit of that era when we walked around all puffy chested because we were the ***** of the walk. They read about in a few books and heard stories but never bathed in Showalter fountain. Good luck!


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Oh, how I wish it were 1987 again. Then my best memories of Indiana basketball wouldn't be two Sweet 16s and Eric Gordon.

I'd probably be harder on Crean if Indiana hadn't been irrelevant for most my lifetime.




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[Frodaddy10 83]

[quote name="BlueDevil2aHoosier" post="35309" timestamp="1391555191"]Man oh man the real life uncle Rico get out of the glory days and join us man. Those times are long gone.[/quote]

I actually like the 'Uncle Rico' that's funny. Just speaking from experience here. I was a genius from 16-25, so I get it. And, you really can't understand what that era was like unless you lived, just like I can't experience what you have lived through. I would suggest it hurts a hell of a lot more when you've been on top and now it feels like we will not get back. My best wishes on you and everyone else getting to feel it because it's the tits!


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[BlueDevil 8,683]

[quote name="Frodaddy10" post="35313" timestamp="1391555858"]I actually like the 'Uncle Rico' that's funny. Just speaking from experience here. I was a genius from 16-25, so I get it. And, you really can't understand what that era was like unless you lived, just like I can't experience what you have lived through. I would suggest it hurts a hell of a lot more when you've been on top and now it feels like we will not get back. My best wishes on you and everyone else getting to feel it because it's the ****!


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Maybe I do get what u mean I've grown up a die hard duke fan with this being my first year as a student at IU and this is my first year following IU basketball so I am living through the coach k era.

[JSHoosier 19,932]

Oh, how I wish it were 1987 again. Then my best memories of Indiana basketball wouldn't be two Sweet 16s and Eric Gordon.

I'd probably be harder on Crean if Indiana hadn't been irrelevant for most my lifetime.




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I was a few months old when we won our last title, and I'm as hard on Crean as anyone.  I look at his track record of 15 years, and see that 14 of them ended in mediocrity (at best) and I'm not convinced he can get us back to a Final Four.

[Frodaddy10 83]

[quote name="JSHoosier" post="35321" timestamp="1391558050"]I was a few months old when we won our last title, and I'm as hard on Crean as anyone. I look at his track record of 15 years, and see that 14 of them ended in mediocrity (at best) and I'm not convinced he can get us back to a Final Four.[/quote]
I'm really having trouble with the thought process that Crean is still growing. We are talking about the fact that the guy still doesn't understand substitution, game management, or adjustment. He was boo'd because 18,000 folks can't fathom his decision making. There is a problem, a real big problem if we are in this place in the guys 15th year of coaching, in my humble opinion. If we were having a debate on his ideology that would be different, but we aren't. And, those who have had the opportunity to watch great coaches,I think the separation is obvious. No I'm not just speaking of Knight, I'm talking about guys like Coach K, and more currently Stevens as just a couple.


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[TrueHoosier62 1,592]

Amen Frodaddy10. Preach it.