Transfer Portal w IU Interest

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 9,836]

36 minutes ago, tyappleg said:

Just addressing this point, but X played in 4.5 out 7 games against what I would consider lesser teams last year.  We sucked in all of them.  Him being on/off the court didn't really matter. 

That's over 1/3 of those mins he's not available for? That's a pretty significant %, imo. 

I'd argue "inability to establish continuity because of his injuries" was even more detrimental then the number of games/mins he was absent. 

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 9,836]

3 hours ago, str8baller said:

Sure, but the flip side of that coin--and the bad news--is that we way over performed in the W/L dept relative to our efficiency metrics. We should've probably been in the 15-16 win range per something like kenpom. 

 

So it's easy to say blow out the lesser teams on our schedule except we almost lost some of those or were in dog fights well into the second half.  Saying we should have blown them out is like saying we should have just not got blown out by uconn, auburn and Purdue. It is what it is.  

 

So I think the point some are trying to get across is that you can land Rice, Ballo and Carlyle and jump into the top 50 in offense and defense but that may put you more in the realm of a bubble team like Oklahoma or Ohio state. It doesn't necessarily give you an offense like Arizona or uconn. Those two aren't even alike.  How some can confuse what those teams are doing with what Woody does is beyond me... especially since we played and got our butts kicked by both in the last two years.  

If the point is, Rice,  Carlyle and Ballo put us back into the realm of bubble team status, or maybe better, then I think most agree. A lot of unknown variables could still shift that one way or another, but until proven otherwise Woodys style of play isn't one of those unknowns for me.

Rice, Carlyle, Ballo, Tucker, Hickman/Conwell, TG, MR, MM 

Probably makes us the most talented team in the B1G. 

[Feathery 4,005]

42 minutes ago, tyappleg said:

Just addressing this point, but X played in 4.5 out 7 games against what I would consider lesser teams last year.  We sucked in all of them.  Him being on/off the court didn't really matter. 

Not totally disagreeing with you. I’ve said in previous posts that I never felt X was the answer. But he is a better PG than Cupps as a freshman and out of position Galloway. 

[Feathery 4,005]

15 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

If my aunt had nuts....

In today’s society your aunt could have nuts. Just sayin. 

[IH8PU 220]

1 hour ago, Feathery said:

I think people have pitted themselves into a corner of wanting Woody gone so everything IU doesn’t is wrong and terrible. I’m in the camp of he is back, and we are going to play a 2 big system, so go get the players that can optimize that. 
 

Depending on how the rest of the roster fills out officially, will set expectations for next year. But I want a top class so that expectations is to be a top 25 team after Atlantis and to chase a conference title. We shall see how the Big Ten rosters fill out but the top teams are losing a lot of impact. 

I am right there with you. I have stated more than a few times I don't like Woodson but he is here for another year and probably more. No matter how loud fans and couch coaches scream at him, he is going to play a 2 big system, that's all he knows and he knows more basketball than anyone does, just ask him. I agree with you "get the players that can optimize that".

Just think what a difference it would make with improved 3 point shooting, thus more of those taken. Improvement in free throws, they are FREE, you're wide open!!!!

Perimeter defense improvement -- I don't want to see a Penn Sate, Nebraska performance again behind the 3 point line. Guard your man!!

So like a few, maybe more, I still want to see IU win although that keeps Woodson on the bench longer. I'm old and tired of losing. Will it ever get back to RMK success, even with his down years? I doubt that will ever happen. Nothing says I cannot dream of annual March Madness without IU in a play-in game. Nothing says I cannot dream to see IU the second Saturday and beyond. Nothing says I cannot dream about fighting through January, February and the first week of March if needed to win a B1G Championship.

ALL of those things are possible!!

IF Woodson can some how do that then fine ... I can chose not to listen to his post game, pregame interview bs. I can by-pass Senior Night speeches again and I can totally ignore him ... IU winning will be NOT QUITE enough because I like seeing well coached teams.

So let's see what Year 4 brings for Mike Woodson. Let's see what this weekend brings and then Monday and Tuesday with his portal guest. Let see what happens when the IU 24-25 team meets for the first time for workouts. We will get a glimpse of what Mike Woodson has to work with and if he makes any changes in the Atlantis games against some decent P5 schools.

I don't like Mike Woodson (his attitude turned me) but I love when IU wins consistently.

[IU Prof 1,351]

14 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Rice, Carlyle, Ballo, Tucker, Hickman/Conwell, TG, MR, MM 

Probably makes us the most talented team in the B1G. 

I saw a recruiting star based analysis that said we were the most talented team in the B1G last year, and we all saw how that ended.

[Feathery 4,005]

47 minutes ago, IU Prof said:

Except UConn didn't play 2 bigs. Karaban was the 4. Completely different player and skill set than Reneau.

Except Karaban didnt play 40 minutes a game and the guys filling his role aren’t 3 pt threats at all. So while Karaban is a great stretch 4, they didn’t play that style exclusively. Their offense was still good without Karaban.  UConn is the standard and I’m not saying IU is UConn just the overblown  reaction to 2 bigs is just that, overblown. 

[IU Prof 1,351]

Just now, Feathery said:

Except Karaban didnt play 40 minutes a game and the guys filling his role aren’t 3 pt threats at all. So while Karaban is a great stretch 4, they didn’t play that style exclusively. Their offense was still good without Karaban.  UConn is the standard and I’m not saying IU is UConn just the overblown  reaction to 2 bigs is just that, overblown. 

What percentage of minutes did UConn simultaneously play two low post dominant bigs?

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 9,836]

1 minute ago, IU Prof said:

I saw a recruiting star based analysis that said we were the most talented team in the B1G last year, and we all saw how that ended.

So the group I listed wouldn't be? 

[Feathery 4,005]

2 minutes ago, IU Prof said:

I saw a recruiting star based analysis that said we were the most talented team in the B1G last year, and we all saw how that ended.

Roster construction is a big key to that. It’s a guards game and ours haven’t been good enough. Now add good guards to a a good front court and there could be something. 

[IU Prof 1,351]

Just now, btownqb said:

So the group I listed wouldn't be? 

Don't know yet, there's still a lot TBD. But the broader point is that a lack of talent hasn't been IU's biggest issue the last few years. Style and coaching has. So I'm not sure that group really moves the needle that much over prior years.

[IH8PU 220]

1 minute ago, btownqb said:

So the group I listed wouldn't be? 

I think what he is trying to say is "we have heard that best in the B1G before as recently as this year with 47 stars, more than anyone and where was IU in the NCAAT ?"

[IUCrazy2 2,589]

1 hour ago, IU Prof said:

This is all correct. Unfortunately,  the bolded part is the key. And that's something that Woodson has never shown any ability or interest in implementing. Instead, he sticks shooters in the corner and has them stand there for the entire possession.

UConn ran an extremely complex and dynamic modern offensive system. IU plays through the post in a 1990s sense. Two completely different animals, to the point that analogizing them is offensive to what Hurley has implemented.

Exactly.

"It's not my job to get Miller Kopp shots."

[IUCrazy2 2,589]

11 minutes ago, Feathery said:

In today’s society your aunt could have nuts. Just sayin. 

Got me there...lol.

[str8baller 6,192]

14 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Rice, Carlyle, Ballo, Tucker, Hickman/Conwell, TG, MR, MM 

Probably makes us the most talented team in the B1G. 

I think that's probably true, and I am all for it. With 3 of those guys seeming almost like sure things, I'm trying not to derail this thread with how the pieces fit together.  It's interesting though and I would think at least 1 backup big gets added. 

[IU Prof 1,351]

1 minute ago, Feathery said:

Roster construction is a big key to that. It’s a guards game and ours haven’t been good enough. Now add good guards to a a good front court and there could be something. 

Agree in general, but there's also more to roster construction than just "good guards" or "bad guards". With Reneau and Ballo clogging the paint, Carlyle won't have the driving lanes needed to thrive. And from the video I've seen, he needs to do a lot of work on his form (shooting base in particluar) to become the consistent 3 point threat the rest of this hypothetical roster needs at the 2.

[Feathery 4,005]

7 minutes ago, IU Prof said:

What percentage of minutes did UConn simultaneously play two low post dominant bigs?

 I just know Karaban played about 30 min a game and his backups are not good shooters. They are athletes that can play good defense. Unless it’s against PU and the whistle gets them on the bench. lol  I’d guess around 20-25%. But that actual stat will be tough bc Cligan was hurt for part of the year so any stat will be skewed. So the games I watched them play it didn’t matter if it was 4 out 1 in or 2 bigs, they execute at the highest level. They are back to back champs for a reason. 

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 9,836]

Just now, IH8PU said:

I think what he is trying to say is "we have heard that best in the B1G before as recently as this year with 47 stars, more than anyone and where was IU in the NCAAT ?"

I never thought the grouping we had last year was the most talented team in the B1G, even in July. I'm not in tune with where 247, On3, Rivals rank these guys, I don't feel those sites are all that good at their jobs. 

So, I believe you, I just don't find it relevant to the talent we are (seemingly) adding. 

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 9,836]

2 minutes ago, str8baller said:

I think that's probably true, and I am all for it. With 3 of those guys seeming almost like sure things, I'm trying not to derail this thread with how the pieces fit together.  It's interesting though and I would think at least 1 backup big gets added. 

Undoubtedly 

[IUCrazy2 2,589]

1 minute ago, Feathery said:

Go look it up prof. I just know Karaban played about 30 min a game and his backups are not good shooters. They are athletes that can play good defense. Unless it’s against PU and the whistle gets them on the bench. lol  I’d guess around 20-25%. But that actual stat will be tough bc Cligan was hurt for part of the year so any stat will be skewed. So the games I watched them play it didn’t matter if it was 4 out 1 in or 2 bigs, they execute at the highest level. They are back to back champs for a reason. 

You can play two bigs, that isn't the issue.  I didn't watchmuch of UConn but it seemed to me that while Karaban was a "big" he wasn't a big who needed to be in the same space as Klingan to be effective.  Ballo and Reneau both basically need to get the ball in the same areas of the floor to be effective.  I think Ware had more range this year but we didn't put him out on the floor, we put him in a clogged lane with Reneau.  Both of those guys generally wanted the ball in the same space.

That is what people mean when they say 2 bigs.  It isn't so much that they are big players with height.  It is that they get in each other's way on the floor because they both want/need the ball in the same areas of the court which makes them easier to guard and also tends to decrease options for other guys on the court.

Additionally, these guards we are bringing have better stats but the majority of their better play appears to be oriented around getting into the paint.  They MAY turn into good shooters but their numbers behind the arc last year aren't ones that say they WILL be better than average shooters.

Offense is about creating a bunch of options to score and then having the right guys to take advantage of those options.  Playing Ballo and Reneau at the same time reduces options in ways that playing Clingan and Karaban doesn't for UConn.