2022-2023 IUBB Roster Projection

[Hovadipo 52,982]

4 minutes ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

In this scenario, wouldn't it be an alley poo? 

 

...I'll see myself out.

Think it might be more of a post-juice cleanse "yella poo"...

[HoosierFan1994 4,633]

Regardless, we should know a lot more by the end of the month. Doesn't the portal window close May 1st? IF someone is leaving our program they will have done so by then correct? Plus draft combine invites will be sent out soon. If Trayce doesn't receiver one I think we will know his decision. 

[RaceToTheTop 23,806]

10 hours ago, MikeRoberts said:

That is correct. While I was wrong on Race and Trayce playing 40 minutes, it was pretty close, 5 minutes on the bench total between the two of them and then that means the front court got a total of 5 minutes rest and the back court got 17. 
none of those minutes went to logan Duncomb who was available to play. 17 to Geronimo who played more in the front court and a walk on who also played in the front court.

JG performing well at the 3 is another story, but LG getting zero run at the 4 or 5 when we were severely outnumbered is baffling 

I understood your point.  Was just pointing out a small mistake in your post.

[HoosierHoopster 6,066]

4 hours ago, BGleas said:

Sorry, didn't think I needed to point out "except for the game where half the team was suspended". 

You said he never even got a look on the wing, which wasn't true, but that's just quibbling lol. 

You know I love you my friend, but imo you're arguing a point that people really aren't arguing. You argue he has hasn't played the wing, if he was a wing he would've gotten minutes on the wing, that this argument is the Smith/OG/Troy Williams debate again. But I don't see people saying look at him, he's a wing right now, he has been playing wing,  or Troy or Smith was a wing. The discussion (at least on my end) has been more that he has the skills, WITH development of his handle -- really the most important improvement area needed, and that goes to his relatively high TO's per 100 possessions (but his usage is high) -- and the length, quickness, athleticism, and shot form/demonstrated outside shooting already, to add wing/perimeter play. Btw, imo including Smith here is not warranted, Smith's games was miles different, dude couldn't shoot to save his life, had no outside skills at all, absolutely never should've been played on the perimeter,  man CAM was just awful.

You heavily critiqued JG's D in guarding the perimeter. I see things differently. 

DRtg -  94.6, 3d on team not counting Childress and Duncomb. There's no stat of course for just perimeter D. Point is he has all the tools defensively and the athleticism, he's an exceptional defender, including demonstrated 3-point D, but needs experience guarding the perimeter, switches, p&r, etc. to improve his perimeter D. It's positional knowledge, imo, not ability, just as in his frosh year and beginning of soph year he'd get lost, but with game experience he improved significantly, so too can he do that on the wing. In contrast, Kopp has the positional knowledge, it's where he plays, but he lacks almost everything else outside of good effort (his effort is solid). He moves his feet well, but lacks lateral quickness, length, etc. Kopp's TO numbers, which you contrasted, are virtually meaningless-- his usage numbers are at the bottom of the team. He's just a spot up shooter who mostly stands in place, he almost never handled the ball, so his TO's are low (but again no dispute that JG's handle must improve ).

What I see and I think most debating the point is the offense JG could be adding with more perimeter / wing play (contrasting Kopp here would be laughable, he added virtually nothing). 

Pts per 40: 13.8, 4th on team. (OK Kopp 10th, not counting Childress and Duncomb)

ORtg - 102,.8, 5th not counting Leal (minutes)

USG% - 19.6, 5th not counting Duncomb, and btw Kopp was 14.4 - good for 10th w/o Duncomb -- again, Kopp barely handled the ball, so sure his TO's are low. So JG's handle has to improve , but he's already 5th on team in usage, that says a Hell of a lot - more than Rob, Galloway, Bates, etc.

FG% - 51.8, 3d

OWS - .5, 5th 

eFG% - .559, 3d not counting Childress

3Pt - 31%, form is there, hit several big shots, I'd bank on that improving well, just like Vic's did, btw, OG's now a pro SF, with versatility plays both SF and PF, he's a 3-4, imo that's exactly what JG can be.

 

 

[btownqb 8,365]

21 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

You said he never even got a look on the wing, which wasn't true, but that's just quibbling lol. 

You know I love you my friend, but imo you're arguing a point that people really aren't arguing. You argue he has hasn't played the wing, if he was a wing he would've gotten minutes on the wing, that this argument is the Smith/OG/Troy Williams debate again. But I don't see people saying look at him, he's a wing right now, he has been playing wing,  or Troy or Smith was a wing. The discussion (at least on my end) has been more that he has the skills, WITH development of his handle -- really the most important improvement area needed, and that goes to his relatively high TO's per 100 possessions (but his usage is high) -- and the length, quickness, athleticism, and shot form/demonstrated outside shooting already, to add wing/perimeter play. Btw, imo including Smith here is not warranted, Smith's games was miles different, dude couldn't shoot to save his life, had no outside skills at all, absolutely never should've been played on the perimeter,  man CAM was just awful.

You heavily critiqued JG's D in guarding the perimeter. I see things differently. 

DRtg -  94.6, 3d on team not counting Childress and Duncomb. There's no stat of course for just perimeter D. Point is he has all the tools defensively and the athleticism, he's an exceptional defender, including demonstrated 3-point D, but needs experience guarding the perimeter, switches, p&r, etc. to improve his perimeter D. It's positional knowledge, imo, not ability, just as in his frosh year and beginning of soph year he'd get lost, but with game experience he improved significantly, so too can he do that on the wing. In contrast, Kopp has the positional knowledge, it's where he plays, but he lacks almost everything else outside of good effort (his effort is solid). He moves his feet well, but lacks lateral quickness, length, etc. Kopp's TO numbers, which you contrasted, are virtually meaningless-- his usage numbers are at the bottom of the team. He's just a spot up shooter who mostly stands in place, he almost never handled the ball, so his TO's are low (but again no dispute that JG's handle must improve ).

What I see and I think most debating the point is the offense JG could be adding with more perimeter / wing play (contrasting Kopp here would be laughable, he added virtually nothing). 

Pts per 40: 13.8, 4th on team. (OK Kopp 10th, not counting Childress and Duncomb)

ORtg - 102,.8, 5th not counting Leal (minutes)

USG% - 19.6, 5th not counting Duncomb, and btw Kopp was 14.4 - good for 10th w/o Duncomb -- again, Kopp barely handled the ball, so sure his TO's are low. So JG's handle has to improve , but he's already 5th on team in usage, that says a Hell of a lot - more than Rob, Galloway, Bates, etc.

FG% - 51.8, 3d

OWS - .5, 5th 

eFG% - .559, 3d not counting Childress

3Pt - 31%, form is there, hit several big shots, I'd bank on that improving well, just like Vic's did, btw, OG's now a pro SF, with versatility plays both SF and PF, he's a 3-4, imo that's exactly what JG can be.

 

 

So, all of that just told me he played solid at the 4.... he just struggled with foul trouble a little, having two really good players in front of him, and there were games (Syracuse being the most notable) he flat out could not play in for whatever reason. He was absolutely a walking TO in that game and it was as if he had never touched a ball vs. a zone defense before. All of that led to him not getting as many mins as he probably had hoped. 

I see very little difference in Smith and JG's games on the offensive end, other than JG has a better-looking shot. Defensively, JG just isn't in the same sentence as JS. I have a hard time seeing any OG in his game, OG was just immensely better than JG at this point in time. 

I don't really see any sort of an advantage that JG could create on the perimeter at this point in time because he hasn't shown even the remote resemblance of a perimeter game... on the offensive or defensive end. Blocks shots and dunks well though. 

[PB1230 502]

25 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

You said he never even got a look on the wing, which wasn't true, but that's just quibbling lol. 

You know I love you my friend, but imo you're arguing a point that people really aren't arguing. You argue he has hasn't played the wing, if he was a wing he would've gotten minutes on the wing, that this argument is the Smith/OG/Troy Williams debate again. But I don't see people saying look at him, he's a wing right now, he has been playing wing,  or Troy or Smith was a wing. The discussion (at least on my end) has been more that he has the skills, WITH development of his handle -- really the most important improvement area needed, and that goes to his relatively high TO's per 100 possessions (but his usage is high) -- and the length, quickness, athleticism, and shot form/demonstrated outside shooting already, to add wing/perimeter play. Btw, imo including Smith here is not warranted, Smith's games was miles different, dude couldn't shoot to save his life, had no outside skills at all, absolutely never should've been played on the perimeter,  man CAM was just awful.

You heavily critiqued JG's D in guarding the perimeter. I see things differently. 

DRtg -  94.6, 3d on team not counting Childress and Duncomb. There's no stat of course for just perimeter D. Point is he has all the tools defensively and the athleticism, he's an exceptional defender, including demonstrated 3-point D, but needs experience guarding the perimeter, switches, p&r, etc. to improve his perimeter D. It's positional knowledge, imo, not ability, just as in his frosh year and beginning of soph year he'd get lost, but with game experience he improved significantly, so too can he do that on the wing. In contrast, Kopp has the positional knowledge, it's where he plays, but he lacks almost everything else outside of good effort (his effort is solid). He moves his feet well, but lacks lateral quickness, length, etc. Kopp's TO numbers, which you contrasted, are virtually meaningless-- his usage numbers are at the bottom of the team. He's just a spot up shooter who mostly stands in place, he almost never handled the ball, so his TO's are low (but again no dispute that JG's handle must improve ).

What I see and I think most debating the point is the offense JG could be adding with more perimeter / wing play (contrasting Kopp here would be laughable, he added virtually nothing). 

Pts per 40: 13.8, 4th on team. (OK Kopp 10th, not counting Childress and Duncomb)

ORtg - 102,.8, 5th not counting Leal (minutes)

USG% - 19.6, 5th not counting Duncomb, and btw Kopp was 14.4 - good for 10th w/o Duncomb -- again, Kopp barely handled the ball, so sure his TO's are low. So JG's handle has to improve , but he's already 5th on team in usage, that says a Hell of a lot - more than Rob, Galloway, Bates, etc.

FG% - 51.8, 3d

OWS - .5, 5th 

eFG% - .559, 3d not counting Childress

3Pt - 31%, form is there, hit several big shots, I'd bank on that improving well, just like Vic's did, btw, OG's now a pro SF, with versatility plays both SF and PF, he's a 3-4, imo that's exactly what JG can be.

 

 

I think the point is that all the stats you cite would drop substantially if JG gets moved out of the post. 

Also, for all of JG's athleticism, he actually doesn't great lateral quickness or footwork which hurt him when guarding on the perimeter

[btownqb 8,365]

3 minutes ago, PB1230 said:

I think the point is that all the stats you cite would drop substantially if JG gets moved out of the post. 

Also, for all of JG's athleticism, he actually doesn't great lateral quickness or footwork which hurt him when guarding on the perimeter

He doesn't close out well. I do think that will improve, has to stop relying on his athleticism so much in those instances, though. 

[Alford Bailey 12,259]

According to ESPN we have the top 2 recruits coming to the B1G next year with JHS and MR.

[HoosierHoopster 6,066]

35 minutes ago, btownqb said:

So, all of that just told me he played solid at the 4.... he just struggled with foul trouble a little, having two really good players in front of him, and there were games (Syracuse being the most notable) he flat out could not play in for whatever reason. He was absolutely a walking TO in that game and it was as if he had never touched a ball vs. a zone defense before. All of that led to him not getting as many mins as he probably had hoped. 

I see very little difference in Smith and JG's games on the offensive end, other than JG has a better-looking shot. Defensively, JG just isn't in the same sentence as JS. I have a hard time seeing any OG in his game, OG was just immensely better than JG at this point in time. 

I don't really see any sort of an advantage that JG could create on the perimeter at this point in time because he hasn't shown even the remote resemblance of a perimeter game... on the offensive or defensive end. Blocks shots and dunks well though. 

Nice, we see things completely differently. 

[HoosierHoopster 6,066]

31 minutes ago, PB1230 said:

I think the point is that all the stats you cite would drop substantially if JG gets moved out of the post. 

Also, for all of JG's athleticism, he actually doesn't great lateral quickness or footwork which hurt him when guarding on the perimeter

Yeah, I don't buy it. His usage numbers, completely ignored, are already there.

[HoosierFan1994 4,633]

If Trayce Jackson-Davis does come back, I think Indiana has to be the unanimous favorite to win the Big Ten. As far as talent goes, no other team will really come close other than Michigan. That doesn't mean anything at the end of the day. But still, lots of excitement building up. Even if he doesn't come back, I think they'll be one of a few teams that can win it. 

[jk34 1,105]

37 minutes ago, btownqb said:

So, all of that just told me he played solid at the 4.... he just struggled with foul trouble a little, having two really good players in front of him, and there were games (Syracuse being the most notable) he flat out could not play in for whatever reason. He was absolutely a walking TO in that game and it was as if he had never touched a ball vs. a zone defense before. All of that led to him not getting as many mins as he probably had hoped. 

I see very little difference in Smith and JG's games on the offensive end, other than JG has a better-looking shot. Defensively, JG just isn't in the same sentence as JS. I have a hard time seeing any OG in his game, OG was just immensely better than JG at this point in time. 

I don't really see any sort of an advantage that JG could create on the perimeter at this point in time because he hasn't shown even the remote resemblance of a perimeter game... on the offensive or defensive end. Blocks shots and dunks well though. 

JG definitely showed a midrange game as well 

[btownqb 8,365]

Just now, jk34 said:

JG definitely showed a midrange game as well 

Which, I don't really see how that could translate to a 3, but I agree. 

[HoosierHoopster 6,066]

Just now, btownqb said:

Which, I don't really see how that could translate to a 3, but I agree. 

He already showed an outside shot, the point made is that he has both, not one or the other, and Smith had neither. They aren't remotely the same player.

[Stuhoo 75,778]

5 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Nice, we see things completely differently. 

I'm with HoosierHoopster on this one.

I get that JG is mistake prone on defense, but when he's on the court the other teams' offense gets...nervous. Shooters are worried about standard jump shots being blocked or altered, and players who want to finish at the rim see JG swatting their sheet.

That is a big deal -- he's so friggin disruptive.

On offense? His mid-range game is already pretty decent, his form on catch and shoot is decent too, and his ability to offensive rebound and extend possessions is incredible.

He needs to be, as HoosierHoopster said, an optimist that sees his ballhandling and defensive mistake weaknesses as opportunities. Our team is so much more dangerous if he  can do that. 

[btownqb 8,365]

7 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

He already showed an outside shot, the point made is that he has both, not one or the other, and Smith had neither. They aren't remotely the same player.

I agree, JS is an immensely better defender. He has made 13 3s at the college level. They are both incredibly limited offensively, outside of Oreb. 

JG 9-29 from 3

JS 7-32 from 3

both as SO

[MikeRoberts 6,837]

11 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Which, I don't really see how that could translate to a 3, but I agree. 

It means not only is his 3 ball improving but when the defense closes out hard, he has the ability to step in and confidently hit the mid range shot. That’s a 3

[btownqb 8,365]

Just now, MikeRoberts said:

It means not only is his 3 ball improving but when the defense closes out hard, he has the ability to step in and confidently hit the mod range shot. That’s a 3

Not really. If you play on the wing in 2022 you should be able to distribute and close out better than he does. 

[btownqb 8,365]

3 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

I'm with HoosierHoopster on this one.

I get that JG is mistake prone on defense, but when he's on the court the other teams' offense gets...nervous. Shooters are worried about standard jump shots being blocked or altered, and players who want to finish at the rim see JG swatting their sheet.

That is a big deal -- he's so friggin disruptive.

On offense? His mid-range game is already pretty decent, his form on catch and shoot is decent too, and his ability to offensive rebound and extend possessions is incredible.

He needs to be, as HoosierHoopster said, an optimist that sees his ballhandling and defensive mistake weaknesses as opportunities. Our team is so much more dangerous if he  can do that. 

I agree with all of this, actually. He fouls too many jumpshooters, but that can be corrected. I think he is an immensely bigger asset and mistmatch at the 4, than he ever would be at the 3. 

[MikeRoberts 6,837]

5 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Not really. If you play on the wing in 2022 you should be able to distribute and close out better than he does. 

Like Kopp?