NCAA MBB Transfer Portal

[Demo]

12 hours ago, AH1971 said:

Also coached Ben Sheppard and Will Richard.

And Sam Orme, the Carmel kid, has been there for 2 years. 6’9” stretch 4 who averaged 13/5 this year and shot 40% from 3. Don’t know if it’s actually true but seem to remember hearing multiple places, maybe even around here, that he really, really wanted to go to IU out of HS. Suppose we’ll see.

[Class of '66 Old Fart]

Joe Tipton -

Providence guard Stefan Vaaks plans to enter the @TransferPortal, source told @On3. 

The 6-7 freshman averaged 15.8 points per game this season. Was Big East All-Freshman team.

https://www.on3.com/news/providence-guard-stefan-vaaks-plans-to-enter-transfer-portal/

[AH1971]

16 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

 

Thankfully a bunch of guys here aren't responsible for player personnel.  There is a reason guys are at the mid major level -- primarily size and athleticism.  Those can't be taught.  Have to start there and then determine if they have the skill set to compete in the Big10.   You increase your chances looking at guys already there.  

What a myopic view. Literally 8/10 All-American's last year started their careers at non-P4 schools. The other two were 17 year old Cooper Flagg and Braden Smith who was a sub-200 level recruit with only a single P5 offer. Plenty of mid-major talent with the size and athleticism to play P4 basketball. 

[IUCrazy2]

2 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

 

Thankfully a bunch of guys here aren't responsible for player personnel.  There is a reason guys are at the mid major level -- primarily size and athleticism.  Those can't be taught.  Have to start there and then determine if they have the skill set to compete in the Big10.   You increase your chances looking at guys already there.  

Let's look at this year.

6th Man of the Year:

Braden Frager (Homegrown Freshman)

Freshman of the year:

Keaton Wagler (homegrown Freshman)

Defensive Player of Year

Aday Mara (UCLA)

Player of the year

Yaxel Lendeborg - (UAB)

 

First Team:

Lendeborg (UAB)

Smith (homegrown)

Fears (homegrown)

Wagler (homegrown)

Stirtz (Drake)

Second Team:

Thornton (homegrown)

Sandfort (Iowa)

Boyd (FAU/SDSU)

Martinelli (homegrown)

Wilkerson (Sam Houston)

 

There is P4 sprinkled in there but the majority is either kids recruited directly to the school or really good evaluation on mid major guys who came and made an impact.  Yes, go get good P4 guys but we don't need all P4 guys.  The problem wasn't that we got mid major dudes, the problem was we got the wrong mid major guys.  And from the list, in his infinite wisdom, Mike Woodson f---ed us because he was too lazy and too out of touch to recruit high school freshman.

 

 

[AH1971]

6 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Let's look at this year.

6th Man of the Year:

Braden Frager (Homegrown Freshman)

Freshman of the year:

Keaton Wagler (homegrown Freshman)

Defensive Player of Year

Aday Mara (UCLA)

Player of the year

Yaxel Lendeborg - (UAB)

 

First Team:

Lendeborg (UAB)

Smith (homegrown)

Fears (homegrown)

Wagler (homegrown)

Stirtz (Drake)

Second Team:

Thornton (homegrown)

Sandfort (Iowa)

Boyd (FAU/SDSU)

Martinelli (homegrown)

Wilkerson (Sam Houston)

 

There is P4 sprinkled in there but the majority is either kids recruited directly to the school or really good evaluation on mid major guys who came and made an impact.  Yes, go get good P4 guys but we don't need all P4 guys.  The problem wasn't that we got mid major dudes, the problem was we got the wrong mid major guys.  And from the list, in his infinite wisdom, Mike Woodson f---ed us because he was too lazy and too out of touch to recruit high school freshman.

 

 

This years freshman class has some generational players and is potentially the best freshman class in a long time. The three best non-freshman in college basketball this year are Yaxel Lendenborg, Joseph Jefferson, and JT Toppin. Lendenborg was a JUCO player who came to Michigan via UAB. Jefferson was a zero star recruit who began his career at St. Mary's. Toppin began his career at New Mexico. There are countless examples of former mid-major players being the cream of the crop of college basketball who were overlooked in high school. Stirtz was a D2 player for crying out loud and is a projected top 20 draft pick.

[Golfman25]

9 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

This years freshman class has some generational players and is potentially the best freshman class in a long time. The three best non-freshman in college basketball this year are Yaxel Lendenborg, Joseph Jefferson, and JT Toppin. Lendenborg was a JUCO player who came to Michigan via UAB. Jefferson was a zero star recruit who began his career at St. Mary's. Toppin began his career at New Mexico. There are countless examples of former mid-major players being the cream of the crop of college basketball who were overlooked in high school. Stirtz was a D2 player for crying out loud and is a projected top 20 draft pick.

You guys are suffering from confirmation bias.  Sure you can point to successes.  And they make great Cinderella stories.  But you also have to consider the not so successful.  The odds aren't there.  

[EasyEJay]

20 minutes ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Joe Tipton -

Providence guard Stefan Vaaks plans to enter the @TransferPortal, source told @On3. 

The 6-7 freshman averaged 15.8 points per game this season. Was Big East All-Freshman team.

https://www.on3.com/news/providence-guard-stefan-vaaks-plans-to-enter-transfer-portal/

Providence people thought he was ready to come back if Providence had retained English, he wont follow English to a lower level but if English ends up as Power 4 assistant then he could follow ?

If not I think that puts Tennessee in the drivers seat with English coaching under Barns. BUT did Clark and English overlap at Tennessee at all? If so could at least get IUs foot in the door.

Also can never discount Arizona and Illinois when it comes to Euro kids 

[AH1971]

1 minute ago, Golfman25 said:

You guys are suffering from confirmation bias.  Sure you can point to successes.  And they make great Cinderella stories.  But you also have to consider the not so successful.  The odds aren't there.  

I'm not suffering from anything. The mid-major bunch DeVries put together collectively lacked size and athleticism. That doesn't mean there aren't athletic guys out there at the lower levels. Watch SLU, Santa Clara, and VCU play this week, either of those teams will arguably be the most athletic team on the floor regardless of the opponent. When a large majority of the best players in college basketball the last few seasons have all been transfers from lower-level schools, your argument doesn't hold water. All three of Florida's guards last year came from low-major schools. Alex Condon was a San Francisco commit who followed Golden to Florida. Chinyelu was a back up big at Washington St. Thomas Haugh was a 200 level rated recruit with minimal P4 offers. I dare someone to tell me last years national champion team wasn't big or athletic because the majority of their players didn't start their careers at P5 schools? And they were a 1 seed, not a Cinderella story. 

[monskisprodigy]

However we build it, and everyone will have an opinion on what the best strategy is...I just want to get to a place where we have some semblance of roster stability year to year. Good mix of high school kids, multi year and development guys, and single year players here and there where it makes sense. I think that is what Carr hit on, during his interview...and mentioned it may take a few years to build that structure. 

Maybe that isn't the formula anymore, but the huge roster turnover every season doesn't seem to be the ticket IMO. 

[IU Prof]

3 minutes ago, monskisprodigy said:

However we build it, and everyone will have an opinion on what the best strategy is...I just want to get to a place where we have some semblance of roster stability year to year. Good mix of high school kids, multi year and development guys, and single year players here and there where it makes sense. I think that is what Carr hit on, during his interview...and mentioned it may take a few years to build that structure. 

Maybe that isn't the formula anymore, but the huge roster turnover every season doesn't seem to be the ticket IMO. 

At this point, just win (consistently) baby.

[Class of '66 Old Fart]

Couple of portal entrants that had some IU interest with no expectation that interest would still be there today.

Jamie Kaiser, Jr., was offered in May '22 and committed to Maryland Aug '22.  Last season he played at Butler.  The 6’6” sophomore wing started 29/30 games for the Bulldogs, averaging 9.5 points, 4.3 rebounds, and 1.0 assist per game.

Daquan Davis never had an IU offer but got more than 1 look.  Committed to Florida State March '24.  Transferred to Providence and redshirted due to injury.  Averaged 8.8 PPG last season at Florida State. 


[Golfman25]

10 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

I'm not suffering from anything. The mid-major bunch DeVries put together collectively lacked size and athleticism. That doesn't mean there aren't athletic guys out there at the lower levels. Watch SLU, Santa Clara, and VCU play this week, either of those teams will arguably be the most athletic team on the floor regardless of the opponent. When a large majority of the best players in college basketball the last few seasons have all been transfers from lower-level schools, your argument doesn't hold water. All three of Florida's guards last year came from low-major schools. Alex Condon was a San Francisco commit who followed Golden to Florida. Chinyelu was a back up big at Washington St. Thomas Haugh was a 200 level rated recruit with minimal P4 offers. I dare someone to tell me last years national champion team wasn't big or athletic because the majority of their players didn't start their careers at P5 schools? And they were a 1 seed, not a Cinderella story. 

Like I said, confirmation bias.  You're just providing the successes.  Now show me the failures.  

[AH1971]

18 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Like I said, confirmation bias.  You're just providing the successes.  Now show me the failures.  

I pointed out the failures of this years IU team in a previous post which is also a confirmation bias. I fail to see why that should prohibit the staff from continuing to recruit mid-major players so long as they're evaluating the right ones? You wouldn't take Florida's team from last year? 

[IUCrazy2]

24 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

You guys are suffering from confirmation bias.  Sure you can point to successes.  And they make great Cinderella stories.  But you also have to consider the not so successful.  The odds aren't there.  

That goes all ways though.  The last 4 Woodson years were full of P4 guys that didn't work out.  That is where my criticism of this staff lies in Year 1, we had people on this board saying, "Nah, that dude isn't it."  The problem was the talent evaluation, not where they played.  You can have Reed Bailey on your team if he is Option 10 and a Sophomore, you can't expect to have him be your starting center.

I just want good players here, guys who are capable and hungry for more than a check.

[Stuhoo]

27 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

You guys are suffering from confirmation bias.  Sure you can point to successes.  And they make great Cinderella stories.  But you also have to consider the not so successful.  The odds aren't there.  

There are innumerable examples of successes and failures.

Evaluation, evaluation, evaluation. I'm pretty convinced that CDD can coach em up; now we need excellent evaluation that incorporates Rod Clark and lessons learned.

[AH1971]

6 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

That goes all ways though.  The last 4 Woodson years were full of P4 guys that didn't work out.  That is where my criticism of this staff lies in Year 1, we had people on this board saying, "Nah, that dude isn't it."  The problem was the talent evaluation, not where they played.  You can have Reed Bailey on your team if he is Option 10 and a Sophomore, you can't expect to have him be your starting center.

I just want good players here, guys who are capable and hungry for more than a check.

Ya give me the proven mid-major guy that checks the boxes over the former top 50 kid on his 4th school in 4 years.

[Golfman25]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

There are innumerable examples of successes and failures.

Evaluation, evaluation, evaluation. I'm pretty convinced that CDD can coach em up; now we need excellent evaluation that incorporates Rod Clark and lessons learned.

Yes that is it.  Starting with how big are they and how athletic are they -- things you can't coach.  We have a bunch of guys here spouting stats at the lower level as if they will translate.  

I have no issue with a guy who went mid-major to play and develop instead of sitting on the bench at a Power 4.  But most are at the mid-major level because they are mid-major players. 

[AH1971]

9 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Yes that is it.  Starting with how big are they and how athletic are they -- things you can't coach.  We have a bunch of guys here spouting stats at the lower level as if they will translate.  

I have no issue with a guy who went mid-major to play and develop instead of sitting on the bench at a Power 4.  But most are at the mid-major level because they are mid-major players. 

Who has mentioned stats? Your summation is that because Conor Enright, Reed Bailey, Dorn, etc weren't plus athletes, plus athletes don't exist at mid-major schools. You're dead wrong. I dare you to try and tell me someone like Brandon Jennings or Elijah Mahi aren't plus athletes. On the other hand, don't, because you have no clue who either are.

[Golfman25]

12 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Who has mentioned stats? Your summation is that because Conor Enright, Reed Bailey, Dorn, etc weren't plus athletes, plus athletes don't exist at mid-major schools. You're dead wrong. I dare you to try and tell me someone like Brandon Jennings or Elijah Mahi aren't plus athletes. On the other hand, don't, because you have no clue who either are.

You clearly have a reading comprehension problem.  Not at all what I said.  Several posts mention stats, go back and read them.  My summation is that mid-major players are mid-major players.  Are there a handful that move up and make a difference -- yes.  You pointed to the successes.  But do most of them?  I doubt it.  If you want to go that way, then good luck next year with your mid-major team part 2.    

[RaceToTheTop]

2 hours ago, Golfman25 said:

You guys are suffering from confirmation bias.  Sure you can point to successes.  And they make great Cinderella stories.  But you also have to consider the not so successful.  The odds aren't there.  

There were exactly 5 players on the Big Ten first through third teams that had transferred into the conference.  Every single one of them transferred from mid or low majors.  That's not confirmation bias.

This is what can be said:  high major talent putting up the same stats as a mid major talent will show that the high major talent is much more likely to be a better player.  But the truth is that their are going to be many more mid major players putting up good stats -- that's the nature of the beast.  High major guys who are important to their team are mostly retained.  So writing off mid major players just because they are mid major players limits your options unnecessarily.  It's where scouting comes in.