Fred Glass Retiring

[Hoosierfan2017 21,390]

18 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

You think I don't want IU to be "good at sports?"   You think people are "okay with" the past several years?  That's an elementary cop out on your part.  You're better than that.   If you want to root for any program, you have to be objective about that program.   I grew up a Reds fan.  I'm STILL a Reds fan.  Do I want them to be good and go to the playoffs every year?  Absolutely.  Same with the Pacers.  But economics are a reality for those teams just like the disadvantages for IU in football are a reality.   Northwestern is in a division where they can compete year in and year out.  Indiana is not.   That's reality.  Same reality Rutgers faces.

Tom Allen's winning % so far at Indiana is .400.  Do you know how many coaches have had a .400 record at Indiana since 1947?   Two.  Bill Mallory and Tom Allen.   Know how many top 35 recruiting classes Indiana had before Tom Allen?  One.  Only...one.  You can deny history all you want.  You can pretend the division doesn't matter to recruiting, coaching hires, etc if you want.  Doesn't make your reality different than reality.

The basketball program is climbing out of mediocrity very quickly.  I can see it even if you can't.  Find me 18 months from now.   You tell me to get mad, I'll tell you to give some credit to the guy who's built the overall IU Athletics program with huge restrictions on him.  You guys can stay pissed all you'd like.  Won't change what IU football is.  What you two are really saying is you want Indiana to be good at football because every other argument is hypothetical if we're looking at "right now."  I think you'll change your tune this winter.  We'll see.   Indiana football is what Indiana football is.   Like I said, you can fight or deny that all you want to.  But....blue bloods and college powers are what they are and have been for 100 years.  Indiana is a middle of the pack team.  In any other conference or division, they're in bowl games every year.  In THIS one?  They're not.  7-5 and the occasional 8-4 is as good as you're going to get on a consistent basis.  If you want to die on the hill that says we can be consistently better, go for it.   But it'll be a lonely death.

I don't expect IU football to start pulling off 10 win seasons anytime soon. But I see no reason why we can't consistently be a 6 or 7 win team. It's not unreasonable of me to expect us to be able to do that. But we've only done that 3 times over the past 20 seasons. We can talk about Allen's winning percentage, but he took over a program that was in pretty good shape by IU's standards and missed a bowl in consecutive seasons. We'll see how this year goes, but I don't have high expectations. The defense seems to have regressed each year that he's been here, and that's supposed to be his calling card.

I like Archie a lot. I'm a big fan, and I think he has what it takes to make IU a great program again. He's building a solid foundation. But, it needs to translate to success on the basketball court. Until that happens, the jury is still out. 

As for Fred Glass, we say that he has restrictions placed on him, so what can we blame him for? Sure, he has built good facilities. Give him credit for that. But, it doesn't really matter how pretty the facilities look if the teams using them stink up the joint. IU's two most important programs have been average at best under his watch. Football has been slightly better (by IU standards) and basketball has been much worse during his 11 years here. 

[Old Friend 8,389]

5 minutes ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

Either they don't care about winning, or they don't know what it takes to win. 

Help us all understand what it takes to win how you want to win on the football field.  What would YOU do differently?

We're going to win on the basketball floor.   I can see that even if you can't, so that's not an issue.  What else are we talking about?   

[Old Friend 8,389]

1 minute ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I don't expect IU football to start pulling off 10 win seasons anytime soon. But I see no reason why we can't consistently be a 6 or 7 win team. It's not unreasonable of me to expect us to be able to do that. But we've only done that 3 times over the past 20 seasons. We can talk about Allen's winning percentage, but he took over a program that was in pretty good shape by IU's standards and missed a bowl in consecutive seasons. We'll see how this year goes, but I don't have high expectations. The defense seems to have regressed each year that he's been here, and that's supposed to be his calling card.

I like Archie a lot. I'm a big fan, and I think he has what it takes to make IU a great program again. He's building a solid foundation. But, it needs to translate to success on the basketball court. Until that happens, the jury is still out. 

As for Fred Glass, we say that he has restrictions placed on him, so what can we blame him for? Sure, he has built good facilities. Give him credit for that. But, it doesn't really matter how pretty the facilities look if the teams using them stink up the joint. IU's two most important programs have been average at best under his watch. Football has been slightly better (by IU standards) and basketball has been much worse during his 11 years here. 

I absolutely agree with this.  (In bold)  As long as those are your expectations, I think that's reasonable.  I also think that's where Indiana is...   We can keep hiring new coaches if Allen doesn't get there, but I don't know what coach would come here and stay here given the restrictions.

Again, you're living in the past.  The reasons for the failures of the basketball program go so far back and beyond Fred Glass it's comical.  I asked "right now" for a reason.  I don't think the jury's out on basketball at all.  I see what's happening there.   Don't you?  The baseball team has not "stunk up the joint" at all.  Most haven't.  Give it enough time before you throw the wet blanket on it.

[Chips&Dipo 1,464]

37 minutes ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

Rutgers has consistently beat Indiana at least

In football, IU has beaten Rutgers for the past three years.

 

In IUBB, Rutgers did beat IU once last year and again in Crean's final season the year before.* However, IU won the last match up last year by 16 and are 6-2** against them since Rutgers joined the B1G.

*And as @Uspshoosier pointed out again in 2018 in the B1G Tournament

**6-3 including B1G Tournament games

[Uspshoosier 45,680]

In football, IU has beaten Rutgers for the past three years.
 
In IUBB, Rutgers did beat IU once last year and again in Crean's final season the year before. However, IU won the last match up last year by 16 and are 6-2 against them since Rutgers joined the B1G.

Rutgers has beaten IU 3 of the last 4 games they have played I believe. They got IU in a B1G tourney game a couple years ago


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[Chips&Dipo 1,464]

Just now, Uspshoosier said:

Rutgers has beaten IU 3 of the last 4 games they have played I believe. They got IU in a B1G tourney game a couple years ago


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You are correct. The source I used only listed the regular season results. My mistake.

[ElectricBoogaloo 4,307]

25 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Rutgers has beaten IU 3 of the last 4 games they have played I believe. They got IU in a B1G tourney game a couple years ago


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They should be basement dwellers again after Omoruyi transferred. 

[southernindianahoosier2 902]

Help us all understand what it takes to win how you want to win on the football field.  What would YOU do differently?
We're going to win on the basketball floor.   I can see that even if you can't, so that's not an issue.  What else are we talking about?   

Give me time and I’ll write out a detailed response


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[Old Friend 8,389]

5 minutes ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

 

Give me time and I’ll write out a detailed response


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I'll prepare my rebuttal.

[Hovadipo 56,178]

2 hours ago, Old Friend said:

I'll prepare my rebuttal.

I’ll provide a short answer for him (for the football question): throw money at it. As much money as absolutely possible. Get rid of unnecessary salaries, tell McRobbie to frig off on taking B1G money, pull it out of couches. Put it into facilities, recruiting, nutrition, academics, coaches, staff. If you want to win in football? Throw. Money. At. Football. (Quick addition here...be prepared to pay the Justin Fields’s of the world 6 figures)

 

This isn’t me picking a side, this is just the simple answer. 

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,370]

I’ll provide a short answer for him (for the football question): throw money at it. As much money as absolutely possible. Get rid of unnecessary salaries, tell McRobbie to frig off on taking B1G money, pull it out of couches. Put it into facilities, recruiting, nutrition, academics, coaches, staff. If you want to win in football? Throw. Money. At. Football. (Quick addition here...be prepared to pay the Justin Fields’s of the world 6 figures)
 
This isn’t me picking a side, this is just the simple answer. 

Basketball. Same.

But a few Cinderellas with no piggy banks pull upsets in basketball. That helps.


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[Old Friend 8,389]

4 hours ago, Hovadipo said:

I’ll provide a short answer for him (for the football question): throw money at it. As much money as absolutely possible. Get rid of unnecessary salaries, tell McRobbie to frig off on taking B1G money, pull it out of couches. Put it into facilities, recruiting, nutrition, academics, coaches, staff. If you want to win in football? Throw. Money. At. Football. (Quick addition here...be prepared to pay the Justin Fields’s of the world 6 figures)

 

This isn’t me picking a side, this is just the simple answer. 

What would throwing money at it accomplish?  What coach can we get?  Names?  Who are they?   We could pay a guy $100 million, and the situation stays the same.  Indiana is still in the Big Ten East.  Regardless of how much money we throw at it (and it would be throwing money away), Ohio State, Michigan,. and Penn State will always have more money for football than we do.   They have tradition on their side like we do in basketball.  They have 105,000 seat stadiums that are full every weekend. 

Indiana has thrown as much money at football as it reasonably can.   We've thrown money at inner city education for decades and guess what?

[Hovadipo 56,178]

10 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

What would throwing money at it accomplish?  What coach can we get?  Names?  Who are they?   We could pay a guy $100 million, and the situation stays the same.  Indiana is still in the Big Ten East.  Regardless of how much money we throw at it (and it would be throwing money away), Ohio State, Michigan,. and Penn State will always have more money for football than we do.   They have tradition on their side like we do in basketball.  They have 105,000 seat stadiums that are full every weekend. 

Indiana has thrown as much money at football as it reasonably can.   We've thrown money at inner city education for decades and guess what?

Exactly. And it still remains the only answer. Money wins in football. A lot of it. More than we have. Which is my point. 

[Old Friend 8,389]

14 minutes ago, Hovadipo said:

Exactly. And it still remains the only answer. Money wins in football. A lot of it. More than we have. Which is my point. 

Money wins in football?   It's that easy?  Then why doesn't UCLA win?  Why doesn't Vanderbilt win?  (They have more money than 99% of schools)   It takes more than just money, and spending more than we have is idiotic because it won't matter here.  You think if Nebraska just spends money they'll win in basketball??   Lots of failed coaches have been paid a lot of money to fail.

[Hovadipo 56,178]

13 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Money wins in football?   It's that easy?  Then why doesn't UCLA win?  Why doesn't Vanderbilt win?  (They have more money than 99% of schools)   It takes more than just money, and spending more than we have is idiotic because it won't matter here.  You think if Nebraska just spends money they'll win in basketball??   Lots of failed coaches have been paid a lot of money to fail.

How many schools win in football without spending money, and a lot of it? You don’t give yourself a chance without spending truckloads of it. It was asked how to win in football. Money is the first step. Every single time. 

And I never said anything about basketball. Entirely different thing. 

[Brass Cannon 24,801]

All for spending money on football but I think we need to find the right coach first. The way we did with baseball. 

I think Hep would have been the guy. But wasn’t meant to be

[southernindianahoosier2 902]

10 hours ago, Old Friend said:

What would throwing money at it accomplish?  What coach can we get?  Names?  Who are they?   We could pay a guy $100 million, and the situation stays the same.  Indiana is still in the Big Ten East.  Regardless of how much money we throw at it (and it would be throwing money away), Ohio State, Michigan,. and Penn State will always have more money for football than we do.   They have tradition on their side like we do in basketball.  They have 105,000 seat stadiums that are full every weekend. 

Indiana has thrown as much money at football as it reasonably can.   We've thrown money at inner city education for decades and guess what?

We could have made a splash hiring Les Miles or Brohm. We could hire the next Tom Herman. However, you need facilities, nutrition, locker rooms, trainers, and a compliance department that doesn't try to run a smear campaign against you. Glass is putting some of these in place, but he's not hitting home runs here, he's way behind the pack in both timing and quality. He also hired Tom Allen instead of to two aforementioned coaches.

 

"Regardless of how much money we throw at it (and it would be throwing money away), Ohio State, Michigan,. and Penn State will always have more money for football than we do." With that defeatist attitude then why would we even field a team. If Purdue can beat Ohio State with Urban Meyer last year, then there's no reason that IU can't be competitive year over year against these teams. I should put an asterisk on "Throwing Money" because Glass is clearly incompetent so he would probably spend the money on all the wrong things. But hey, I'd rather them let Glass spend money on things that don't add value to the programs then have IU spend no money at all. After all its the principal and value signaling of spending the money that is important. 

[Hoosierfan2017 21,390]

7 minutes ago, Iugradman said:

It’s not like IU hasn’t been competitive against the top four in the Big Ten West.

IU led at Michigan State in the fourth quarter in 2015, beat them in 2016, and had a late lead in 2017.

IU beat Penn State in 2013, went toe to toe with them in 2016 (they even had a ten point second half lead), and lost by just five in 2018.

IU took Michigan to overtime in 2015 and 2017 and held a second half lead in 2018.

IU lost to Ohio State by three in 2012 and by 7 in 2015 after losing both Sudfeld and Howard to injury. 

More investment in the program could have turned those close losses into program defining wins.

Exactly. It hasn't been like those teams have been beating the snot out of us every single year. We had a chance to tie the game in the red zone on the last play of the game in 2015 with Zander Diamont as our quarterback. We're not going to be in a position where we're consistently beating those teams, but there's no reason we can't pull an upset every now and then. Purdue beat the breaks off Ohio State last year. Michigan hasn't been anything special lately. They've been very beatable. We've hung with Penn State too. 

Michigan State is a great example of how hiring the right coach can completely turn a program around. The had one 10 win season in 40 years before hiring Dantonio. With him, they have six 10 win seasons in 12 years, and 11 bowl appearances. They were a respectable program before hiring him, but they didn't become elite until he walked through the door. 

[LamarCheeks 18,925]

36 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

 

Michigan State is a great example of how hiring the right coach can completely turn a program around. The had one 10 win season in 40 years before hiring Dantonio. With him, they have six 10 win seasons in 12 years, and 11 bowl appearances. They were a respectable program before hiring him, but they didn't become elite until he walked through the door. 

Purdue in the late 1990s is the same. The Toiletmakers went 7-5 in 1984 and after that, didn't win more than five games a season until 1997, when coincidentally, they hired Joe Tiller. That stretch included four three-win seasons, a two-win season and a one-win season. They went 3-8 in 1996 in Jim Colletto's final season, then went 9-3 -- including a bowl win -- the very next year, which was Tiller's first. Were the players all the sudden significantly better from one year to the next? No. If you hire the right coach, it makes a difference.  

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

2 hours ago, Iugradman said:

Spending money may not work but NOT spending money definitely won’t work. IU has to at least make the effort. Minnesota, Iowa, Purdue, and Illinois have way better football facilities than IU. That is not acceptable. The Tallen Complex cost $8.5 million. Illinois just opened a $79 million football ONLY complex with bowling lanes, games, etc. That is what IU is going up against.

Who ultimately controls these funds? You're barking up the wrong tree, amigo.