Bracketology and Team Resumes

[RaceToTheTop 31,661]

6 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

The only way to select teams is to come up with some formula or “metrics” to cross compare differing schedules, conferences, etc. The “best” otherwise is simply subjective.

That’s not to say they don’t screw it up and weigh things differently in different years and leave out teams that “should” be in, no system is perfect 

It does seem strange, though, IMO that a quad 3 home wins allowed a team to pass a team that had a quad 2 road in the same night.  Personally, I am against using the predictive values to reward teams.  It’s about wins and losses and who you played if I were in charge.  I say this being a total stat geek with a subscription to Pom.

[RaceToTheTop 31,661]

I still have this fear as best Rutgers on Wednesday and still miss the tournament.

[str8baller 7,843]

5 hours ago, brumdog45 said:

It does seem strange, though, IMO that a quad 3 home wins allowed a team to pass a team that had a quad 2 road in the same night.  Personally, I am against using the predictive values to reward teams.  It’s about wins and losses and who you played if I were in charge.  I say this being a total stat geek with a subscription to Pom.

I generally am in the same boat. The problem I have though is that most of the “other” systems the NCAA comes up with are 1) crap and 2) used by people who don’t understand them and have no idea what they’re doing. Most people on the selection committee, of both football and basketball, couldn’t pass a stats 101 class. 

[RaceToTheTop 31,661]

While Joe Lunardi is 55th out of 135 on bracketologists that the bracket matrix measured over the last five years, Jerry Palm is at 100 out of 135.

You would think the guys that are actually getting paid to do this would be good at their jobs.

[LIHoosier 28,219]

7 hours ago, brumdog45 said:

It does seem strange, though, IMO that a quad 3 home wins allowed a team to pass a team that had a quad 2 road in the same night.  Personally, I am against using the predictive values to reward teams.  It’s about wins and losses and who you played if I were in charge.  I say this being a total stat geek with a subscription to Pom.

Dear Nerds,

[HoosierHoopster 8,939]

7 hours ago, brumdog45 said:

It does seem strange, though, IMO that a quad 3 home wins allowed a team to pass a team that had a quad 2 road in the same night.  Personally, I am against using the predictive values to reward teams.  It’s about wins and losses and who you played if I were in charge.  I say this being a total stat geek with a subscription to Pom.

I don’t disagree, the system aint perfect by a longshot, but having to cross compare over multiple conferences, mid majors and others who just won’t have the same strength of schedules etc, a lot of variables. They absolutely mess it up, but gotta have a system. I’d rather a consistent system with known measures but it is what it is 

[Rico 3,742]

33 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

I don’t disagree, the system aint perfect by a longshot, but having to cross compare over multiple conferences, mid majors and others who just won’t have the same strength of schedules etc, a lot of variables. They absolutely mess it up, but gotta have a system. I’d rather a consistent system with known measures but it is what it is 

Let everybody in the NCAAT and then we don't need a system.  Then we can haggle about the seeding.

[Uspshoosier 54,741]

1 hour ago, brumdog45 said:

While Joe Lunardi is 55th out of 135 on bracketologists that the bracket matrix measured over the last five years, Jerry Palm is at 100 out of 135.

You would think the guys that are actually getting paid to do this would be good at their jobs.

I will always give Lunardi a pass.   He is The Godfather of bracketology.  He brought it to the mainstream and made it as popular as it is today.   While over the years he has gotten passed up by others that got into it because of him bringing attention to it and have taken it to a different level.   Rocco Miller is one I follow that has years of old recordings of the committee chair interviews that he rewatches every year just to get a feel for what they have said in the past.   That’s dedication.   Because of Lunardi there is better bracketologist out there.  Because of him I’m on here in my free time doing what I love to do and projecting the field for people instead of doing on my own.  Lunardis problem now days is since he is the face and on the biggest platform his brackets are for show and to generate discussion and it works.  Espn has him on every halftime of about every game at  the end of the season.   If X team wins this game then they will move into my bracket and it Y team loses they are out.   Gets discussion but doesn’t really work that way.    Why CBS still uses Palm is beyond me he stinks and there are a number of others that are really good 

[Chris007 62,616]

So did we get any help last night? Syracuse crapped the bed against UNC. SDSU beat Wyoming. Does that help or hurt? Any other games? UM-MSU tonight. Come on Sparty. Any other bubble games?

[Uspshoosier 54,741]

3 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

So did we get any help last night? Syracuse crapped the bed against UNC. SDSU beat Wyoming. Does that help or hurt? Any other games? UM-MSU tonight. Come on Sparty. Any other bubble games?

Probably not.  Cuse would of helped if they would of won but they decided to throw the ball out of bounds after a timeout when they were up 1 lol.   You could argue the SDSU game hurt.   Sparty big game tonight for bubble and B1G purposes.   Michigan is around the same area as iu.   
 

teams IU would want to lose 

Miami, North Carolina, Michigan, Rutgers, Wake, SMU, Memphis, Oregon, Byu, San Francisco, Florida, VCU. I’m probably missing some but along with IU these are the teams that are fighting at the bottom of the bubble.   IU needs to take care of business Wednesday and completely take it out of the committees and bid stealers hands and win at Purdue.   Usually if a team is in the last 4 in heading into Champ week they don’t usually survive.    An average of 2.4 bids get stolen 

[Chris007 62,616]

2 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Probably not.  Cuse would of helped if they would of won but they decided to throw the ball out of bounds after a timeout when they were up 1 lol.   You could argue the SDSU game hurt.   Sparty big game tonight for bubble and B1G purposes.   Michigan is around the same area as iu.   
 

teams IU would want to lose 

Miami, North Carolina, Michigan, Rutgers, Wake, SMU, Memphis, Oregon, Byu, San Francisco, Florida, VCU. I’m probably missing some but along with IU these are the teams that are fighting at the bottom of the bubble.   IU needs to take care of business Wednesday and completely take it out of the committees and bid stealers hands and win at Purdue.   Usually if a team is in the last 4 in heading into Champ week they don’t usually survive.    An average of 2.4 bids get stolen 

Thank you!!

[HoosierAloha 30,102]

On 2/28/2022 at 6:15 AM, IUc2016 said:

IU dropped from 43 to 44 in the NET after a quad 2 road win. 
 

LOL
 

 

 

On 2/28/2022 at 7:43 AM, brumdog45 said:

Yeah….because Memphis had a quad 3 home win and passed IU.  Just silly.

 

I'm sure you know there's more to it but to provide the rest of that information...

Memphis handled their opponent (NET ~80s) by ~20 at home while IU allowed a late run by their opponent (NET ~100) on the road to just hold on.

[Chris007 62,616]

8 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

 

I'm sure you know there's more to it but to provide the rest of that information...

Memphis handled their opponent (NET ~80s) by ~20 at home while IU allowed a late run by their opponent (NET ~100) on the road to just hold on.

And as you know like USPS said there is a lot more to it than that. Penn St who beat IU lost to a terrible team so that hurt IU as much as us not blowing out Minny. Houston, who Memphis beat, blew out a bubble team to help Memphis. So a lot more to it than just that.

[HoosierHoopster 8,939]

1 hour ago, Rico said:

Let everybody in the NCAAT and then we don't need a system.  Then we can haggle about the seeding.

It would be a monster big tourney, but I would like it. Just imagine the size of those brackets!

[HoosierAloha 30,102]

4 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

And as you know like USPS said there is a lot more to it than that. Penn St who beat IU lost to a terrible team so that hurt IU as much as us not blowing out Minny. Houston, who Memphis beat, blew out a bubble team to help Memphis. So a lot more to it than just that.

Absolutely, just clarifying the "yeah because.. quad 2, quad 3..."

Also, a lot of the conference stuff is relatively cyclical to a degree. Not so much quads but just won/loss against opponents. The quad x vs. quad y is funny to me when those teams could be 1 NET ranking away.

[IUc2016 7,121]

18 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

 

I'm sure you know there's more to it but to provide the rest of that information...

Memphis handled their opponent (NET ~80s) by ~20 at home while IU allowed a late run by their opponent (NET ~100) on the road to just hold on.

Not sure I would say that is the rest of the information. There is an entire season of data. 

[HoosierAloha 30,102]

3 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:

Not sure I would say that is the rest of the information. There is an entire season of data. 

Yes, there is an entire season of data that plays into it as has been discussed numerous times.

[IUc2016 7,121]

Just now, HoosierAloha said:

Yes, there is an entire season of data that plays into it as has been discussed numerous times.

Okay well I was sure you knew there was more to it. But I was just providing it for you 

[HoosierAloha 30,102]

1 minute ago, IUc2016 said:

Okay well I was sure you knew there was more to it. But I was just providing it for you 

If you'd like to dig into all of the data points that led to Memphis jumping us after Sunday I'd definitely read it.

[Uspshoosier 54,741]

Wyoming dropped 6 spots after last nights loss so IU moved up 1 spot today