2018-2019 Rotation Discussion Thread

[Old Friend 8,389]

19 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Im not using energy and my point is your reasoning is flawed anout McRoberts your biased because hes a walk on and frankly you are overly biased towards points scored not giving fair value to defense, passing and rebounding. 

Wow.   Thank you for clearing up all of those things "I am" for me.   I was confuzzled.   Hell, dude, I started this out saying "all due respect" to you, and look where it took us.  This is on you...not me. 

Your opinion is your opinion.  You've been given examples and facts to back up everything I've said.  You clearly don't get what I'm trying to tell you because you're focused on numbers.  I have no bias because he is a walk on.  For the 3rd time....my opinion is based on WHY he's a walk on, not THAT he's a walk on.  I've pointed out those reasons repeatedly.  You're not biased in his favor, are you?   Pot..meet kettle.  

[Old Friend 8,389]

25 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

No i am not nit picking. Im using the per 40 stat for what its intended for. To correct for imbalances in playing time. 

Zack played in 12 fewer games and and fewer minutes per game. Of course his totals and per game are going to be off. 

You are just biased and are excluding data that doesnt back up your point. 

The root issue in 40 minutes of basketball gasser gave about 8 points. Mcroberts just shy of 6. Not that substantially. 

There is no data that doesn't back up my point unless you eliminate some of it to favor yours.  Good grief.  (And you had to go back 3 seasons to find that comparison..which made me smile.  And you have one.  A single comparison to make your point.  I can find about 800 that prove mine if you want to look them up)

[rcbowla 7,119]

There is no data that doesn't back up my point unless you eliminate some of it to favor yours.  Good grief.  (And you had to go back 3 seasons to find that comparison..which made me smile.  And you have one.  A single comparison to make your point.  I can find about 800 that prove mine if you want to look them up)

You were right earlier......you don't argue with people at all. My bad

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[Brass Cannon 24,801]

5 hours ago, Old Friend said:

There is no data that doesn't back up my point unless you eliminate some of it to favor yours.  Good grief.  (And you had to go back 3 seasons to find that comparison..which made me smile.  And you have one.  A single comparison to make your point.  I can find about 800 that prove mine if you want to look them up)

Actually the way you phrased your challenge you made a definitive statements that good teams DONT do something.  Which means one example is all I need to prove you wrong.  Which I provided.  

Good teams have basketball players who are there to do things besides score all the time.  Dennis Rodman would be another great example

[MikeRoberts 7,004]

P.j tucker is another good example of a guy that is really not much of a scoring threat that plays starter minutes on the best regular season team in the NBA.


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[Stuhoo 80,774]

P.j tucker is another good example of a guy that is really not much of a scoring threat that plays starter minutes on the best regular season team in the NBA.


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So is OG Anunoby!


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[coonhounds 8,938]

I’m not sure. Like I said, the rules probably changed from 20 years ago, but when I played the coaches were not allowed in the gym if the team was playing pickup in the Fall/Spring. They were “voluntary” sessions technically, but the coach could not be in the gym with us playing. 
His office was right down the hall and he’d make up reasons to walk through each day and take a quasi attendance, but otherwise he couldn’t be in there or film them. We were allowed to have small group sessions in the Spring and Fall with the coach, but not team workouts. He would ask various players who was playing well, who wasn’t, etc. every day, but he couldn’t watch  
Again, the rules may have, and probably most likely have, changed. 

Did you play for iu?

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[Old Friend 8,389]

5 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

Actually the way you phrased your challenge you made a definitive statements that good teams DONT do something.  Which means one example is all I need to prove you wrong.  Which I provided.  

Good teams have basketball players who are there to do things besides score all the time.  Dennis Rodman would be another great example

You let me know when  Zach McRoberts does anything as well as Rodman defended or rebounded.  You just used an example of perhaps the best rebounder in NBA history, and if you have to go to that extreme to make a point, I feel pretty sound in my thinking.   When McRoberts averages 18 rebounds a game, we can use that example.  

Your examples are extreme, and your point is noted.  Let's reconvene in February.  If McRoberts is playing 20+ minutes every game, still not producing; and Indiana is in the mix for a Big Ten title and looking like a solid NCAA Tournament team, I will very gladly eat my words.   Until then....  

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

The point is, if Justin Smith and Jerome Hunter, superior athletes and talents, can’t surpass McRoberts, demonstrate equal basketball IQ, and become a starters/earn serious minutes, we’re in trouble come March. McRoberts is going to be a great tool off the bench when we need to give our studs a kick in the butt and need someone to demonstrate hustle and how to play fundamental basketball, as he’s consistent and dependable. 

[rcbowla 7,119]

The point is, if Justin Smith and Jerome Hunter, superior athletes and talents, can’t surpass McRoberts, demonstrate equal basketball IQ, and become a starters/earn serious minutes, we’re in trouble come March. McRoberts is going to be a great tool off the bench when we need to give our studs a kick in the butt and need someone to demonstrate hustle and how to play fundamental basketball, as he’s consistent and dependable. 

I absolutely understand this sentiment. However, there is a real argument to be made that McRoberts was our 3rd best player last season with the #2 player now gone. I'm not certain the incoming FR outside of Romeo are going to leap frog him in the rotation. If they do then fantastic and things will be rolling but I'm not sold. Also Archie hasn't said anything to make me think that ZM is all of a sudden going to be pushed down in the rotation. It may not just be as simple as the other talent isn't progressing well/fast enough but instead that ZM is really a player that Archie trusts and believes in.

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[Brass Cannon 24,801]

4 hours ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

The point is, if Justin Smith and Jerome Hunter, superior athletes and talents, can’t surpass McRoberts, demonstrate equal basketball IQ, and become a starters/earn serious minutes, we’re in trouble come March. McRoberts is going to be a great tool off the bench when we need to give our studs a kick in the butt and need someone to demonstrate hustle and how to play fundamental basketball, as he’s consistent and dependable. 

You are expecting underclassmen to have the same poise and decision making as a senior?  Hows that realistic?

besides i have never said that these guys arent better players but how often do teams start their 5 most talented players?  Its not a rule written in stone. 

Leave scoring on the bench where its needed. Romeo and Morgan dobt need more scorers 

[MikeRoberts 7,004]

You are expecting underclassmen to have the same poise and decision making as a senior?  Hows that realistic?
besides i have never said that these guys arent better players but how often do teams start their 5 most talented players?  Its not a rule written in stone. 
Leave scoring on the bench where its needed. Romeo and Morgan dobt need more scorers 

Yep, he is best suited playing alongside our best scoring unit. If he comes in along with a bunch of freshmen that aren’t proven scorers then that unit will be a disaster.

Need balance


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[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

4 hours ago, rcs29 said:

I absolutely understand this sentiment. However, there is a real argument to be made that McRoberts was our 3rd best player last season with the #2 player now gone. I'm not certain the incoming FR outside of Romeo are going to leap frog him in the rotation. If they do then fantastic and things will be rolling but I'm not sold. Also Archie hasn't said anything to make me think that ZM is all of a sudden going to be pushed down in the rotation. It may not just be as simple as the other talent isn't progressing well/fast enough but instead that ZM is really a player that Archie trusts and believes in.

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Agree - he probably was in all honesty.

To the other posts about incoming freshman, I’m talking about Justin Smith and Race who have all been with the program just as long as McRoberts. They are superior atheletes and talents. I don’t expect them to be big time scorers, but they are at least scoring threats, and should be able to have greater impacts on both ends of the floor. I hope they both are ready to bump McRoberts down in the rotation. 

[Brass Cannon 24,801]

6 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Agree - he probably was in all honesty.

To the other posts about incoming freshman, I’m talking about Justin Smith and Race who have all been with the program just as long as McRoberts. They are superior atheletes and talents. I don’t expect them to be big time scorers, but they are at least scoring threats, and should be able to have greater impacts on both ends of the floor. I hope they both are ready to bump McRoberts down in the rotation. 

Which would leave who to score off the bench?

[Stuhoo 80,774]

Which would leave who to score off the bench?

Irrelevant.
There will regularly be a mix of starters and bench on the floor.



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[Brass Cannon 24,801]

15 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Irrelevant.
There will regularly be a mix of starters and bench on the floor.



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Most successful teams do have a guy come off bench to score. Dont have to. 

If Race or Whoever doesnt start at guard is ready im all for it like ive said. But im a firm believer you have to have a scorer coming off the bench. 

[Brass Cannon 24,801]

19 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Irrelevant.
There will regularly be a mix of starters and bench on the floor.



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Then why is it so important that ZM doesnt start because we cant afford to only have 4 starters who can score?

[Stuhoo 80,774]

Then why is it so important that ZM doesnt start because we cant afford to only have 4 starters who can score?

I’m not on either end of the spectrum on this one.
I really like what McBob brings, and I would be shocked if he isn’t one of our top eight players.
But, Whether he starts or not is of no real concern to me.

ALSO: a major dynamic that has not been discussed is that McBob has a pretty nice shooting stroke, and knowing his work ethic I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if he is a much more confident and 40% three-point shooter next season.



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[Brass Cannon 24,801]

36 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

I’m not on either end of the spectrum on this one.
I really like what McBob brings, and I would be shocked if he isn’t one of our top eight players.
But, Whether he starts or not is of no real concern to me.

ALSO: a major dynamic that has not been discussed is that McBob has a pretty nice shooting stroke, and knowing his work ethic I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if he is a much more confident and 40% three-point shooter next season.



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Not to mention his work ethic with Romeo and Morgan every player on this team is going to be more open than last year. Including Morgan and Romeo

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

 

I’m not on either end of the spectrum on this one.
I really like what McBob brings, and I would be shocked if he isn’t one of our top eight players.
But, Whether he starts or not is of no real concern to me.

ALSO: a major dynamic that has not been discussed is that McBob has a pretty nice shooting stroke, and knowing his work ethic I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if he is a much more confident and 40% three-point shooter next season.



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McBob's 3PT% will be direct reflection of his confidence in his ability to shoot and the confidence of his teammates.  He should have plenty of open looks next season.