Soapbox Time. Students, get your butts to the games!

[OliviaPope40 7,198]

On 1/27/2018 at 6:00 PM, Aaron said:

Part of this is 100% on IU. I live in Indy and I can tell you IU takes the Indy market completely for granted and treats them like crap when it comes to availability. Painter and Jordan are on basically every week on the local radio as well as several PU and Butler players while IU gives them nothing. As a result the Indy media can get a little hostile towards IU and not treat them well unless they win big. IU needs to stop taking the state for granted and realize their are other options now and promote their product. IU athletic department can act like the spoiled child who believes they are grand but has done nothing to show it lately (to be fair our fans act the same way sometimes).

Now with all that said this statement could not be more absurd. First off Hinkle is half the size of IU. Even our 'empty seat' games still have more people than Hinkle could even fit and Hinkle does not even always sell out. Secondly, Butler chooses to sell single game tickets instead of doing season tickets only so every seat usually sold fills.

Now put that together and if IU does not want these absurd statements made by people in the Indy media I would recommend giving them the access that Butler and PU do or Indy media is going to continue to take shots at IU until they win big. 

 

For Butler they do sell season tickets but you can get single game tickets if you don't want to pay for season tickets.

[Hutch89 2,946]

9 hours ago, Old Friend said:

You are so full of BS, I barely know how to respond.  Except to call complete bull sh*t on you, which this is.  Watch a game at Duke. Go to a game at Butler.  Smaller arenas yes.  MUCH smaller student bodies, too.  Go to ANY football game at Ohio State.  Notre Dame. Michigan.  Clemson.  Penn State even when they were bad a few years ago.  Alabama.  A basketball game at Kentucky (with an off campus arena that seats 24,000 people).  Kansas has the same problem we do, and alums are furious.  Why should we be any different??  All blue blood programs in their sport, which means fair weather fans have no place.  Big games at ANY university will sell out and be loud.  WE ARE NOT JUST ANY BASKETBALL SCHOOL!!    Know where you are.

This statement is as wrong as it is ignorant.And yes.  That is an excuse. 

Life's so much easier when you just chill out. 

[Aaron 4,387]

51 minutes ago, OliviaPope40 said:

For Butler they do sell season tickets but you can get single game tickets if you don't want to pay for season tickets.

Correct. IU is one of the few that chooses (besides over holiday breaks) to sell everything ONLY via season tickets (about half to students and half to general public) which as I said has its advantages and drawbacks. Obviously the advantage is it guarantees IU the revenue from selling the tickets to every game and keeps opposing fans to about as limited a number as possible as happened yesterday. Drawback is you have a lot of no shows sometimes for non premium games unless IU is really good (this includes non-students as well). 

We can debate all we want if IU is using the correct method to sell all the tickets but these are the facts and is the reason why seats are not always full despite being sold.  

[mdn82 25,970]

Correct. IU is one of the few that chooses (besides over holiday breaks) to sell everything ONLY via season tickets (about half to students and half to general public) which as I said has its advantages and drawbacks. Obviously the advantage is it guarantees IU the revenue from selling the tickets to every game and keeps opposing fans to about as limited a number as possible as happened yesterday. Drawback is you have a lot of no shows sometimes for non premium games unless IU is really good (this includes non-students as well). 
We can debate all we want if IU is using the correct method to sell all the tickets but these are the facts and is the reason why seats are not always full despite being sold.  

Don’t buy them if you can’t go or can’t sell them. The tickets are sold. That has nothing to do with people not showing up. Tickets are sold online all of the time. Here as well.


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[Hoosierfan2017 23,942]

I think a lot of students buy basketball tickets because it's "what you do" when you go to school at IU. They aren't really that interested since they weren't IU fans growing up, so they only go to the big games. It's how my sister and a lot of her friends are. Just a lot of flaky students these days. I don't really know how you'd change that. If you give fewer student tickets you'll have the same problem, though on a smaller scale, and the loyal students would get punished. 

[mdn82 25,970]

I think a lot of students buy basketball tickets because it's "what you do" when you go to school at IU. They aren't really that interested since they weren't IU fans growing up, so they only go to the big games. It's how my sister and a lot of her friends are. Just a lot of flaky students these days. I don't really know how you'd change that. If you give fewer student tickets you'll have the same problem, though on a smaller scale, and the loyal students would get punished. 

I definitely get that and don’t disagree. I do think part of it is marketing to the youth or campus. It’s a mentality shift that needs to be addressed. Maybe it’s improved seating for showing up? Maybe they give food credits if you show up?


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[Old Friend 8,582]

3 hours ago, Hutch89 said:

Life's so much easier when you just chill out. 

Maybe, but if you don't give a damn about something and just let the world pass you by; you'll lead a "whatever" kind of life, and I have no interest in that.   Passion has built every great thing in this country; and this is something about which I have passion.  I'm not you and you're not me.  I chill out when I don't care about the result or outcome, as do most people.   What's your message?

[Aaron 4,387]

2 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I think a lot of students buy basketball tickets because it's "what you do" when you go to school at IU. They aren't really that interested since they weren't IU fans growing up, so they only go to the big games. It's how my sister and a lot of her friends are. Just a lot of flaky students these days. I don't really know how you'd change that. If you give fewer student tickets you'll have the same problem, though on a smaller scale, and the loyal students would get punished. 

You could not be more right. I was a huge fan bought tickets all 4 years and never missed a game. My sister who started school right after I graduated got tickets all 4 years also. The first 2 she rarely went and was not that into it as it wasn't the 'cool' thing to do. Her junior year she went more as we got better and than her senior year she never missed a game when we were no. 1 and has remained a fan every since and has followed the team much closer. I tried everything to get her to be a sports fan growing up and it didn't work but when her friends started going and got her into it she became a huge fan and has remained to this day since it was the 'thing to do' at IU her last year.

My point is many students do not come to IU as basketball fans and especially IU basketball fans and it takes a great year to really get them on board and make them part of the IU basketball culture. Many of our fans (including me) didn't get to experience the glory days and only know an average IU basketball team for most part. We can complain about fair weather fans all we want but that's what drives EVERY fan base. Die hards like me make up a small portion of a fan base while casual (or as some would say fair weather) fans are the vast majority of any fan base and in order to get those people hooked you have to win. We start winning big all these 'flaky students' will show up every game just like 2012-2013.

[Hoosierfan2017 23,942]

1 hour ago, mdn82 said:

I definitely get that and don’t disagree. I do think part of it is marketing to the youth or campus. It’s a mentality shift that needs to be addressed. Maybe it’s improved seating for showing up? Maybe they give food credits if you show up?


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I think better marketing would definitely help. I like what they've been doing on social media with the videos and all that since Archie took over. It's helping to make IU basketball "cool" again. If Archie can bring some consistency to the program that should help attendance as well. 

[Hoosierfan2017 23,942]

16 minutes ago, Aaron said:

You could not be more right. I was a huge fan bought tickets all 4 years and never missed a game. My sister who started school right after I graduated got tickets all 4 years also. The first 2 she rarely went and was not that into it as it wasn't the 'cool' thing to do. Her junior year she went more as we got better and than her senior year she never missed a game when we were no. 1 and has remained a fan every since and has followed the team much closer. I tried everything to get her to be a sports fan growing up and it didn't work but when her friends started going and got her into it she became a huge fan and has remained to this day since it was the thing to do at IU her last year.

My point is many students do not come to IU as basketball fans and especially IU basketball fans and it takes a great year to really get them on board and make them part of the IU basketball culture. Many of our fans (including most of my life) didn't get to experience the glory days and only know an average IU basketball team for most part. We can complain about fair weather fans all we want but that's what drives EVERY fan base. Die hards like me make up a small portion of a fan base while casual (or as some would say fair weather) fans are the vast majority of any fan base and in order to get those people hooked you have to win. We may not like it but that's how it works.       

Exactly. I don't see it as making excuses for the students, it's just recognizing the reality of the situation. IU hasn't been a great program during these college students' lifetimes. We've had some good seasons, but the program has been very inconsistent throughout their lives.

A lot of kids buying tickets didn't grow up IU fans like many of us did. It's easy for them to get excited when a Purdue or a Duke or a Michigan State comes to town, but a Sunday afternoon game against Northwestern isn't as appealing. Many students would rather just go watch the game at Roys and day drink. The best way to fill the student section every night is for the team to have continued success. I wish it was different, but that's the reality today. 

[mdn82 25,970]

You could not be more right. I was a huge fan bought tickets all 4 years and never missed a game. My sister who started school right after I graduated got tickets all 4 years also. The first 2 she rarely went and was not that into it as it wasn't the 'cool' thing to do. Her junior year she went more as we got better and than her senior year she never missed a game when we were no. 1 and has remained a fan every since and has followed the team much closer. I tried everything to get her to be a sports fan growing up and it didn't work but when her friends started going and got her into it she became a huge fan and has remained to this day since it was the 'thing to do' at IU her last year.
My point is many students do not come to IU as basketball fans and especially IU basketball fans and it takes a great year to really get them on board and make them part of the IU basketball culture. Many of our fans (including me) didn't get to experience the glory days and only know an average IU basketball team for most part. We can complain about fair weather fans all we want but that's what drives EVERY fan base. Die hards like me make up a small portion of a fan base while casual (or as some would say fair weather) fans are the vast majority of any fan base and in order to get those people hooked you have to win. We start winning big all these 'flaky students' will show up every game just like 2012-2013.

Just one question. Were you born and raised in Indiana?


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[HoosierAloha 30,100]

Another part to this if you find yourself upset about attendance... find those in the younger generation, whether it be your kids, grandkids, nieces, nephews, cousins, neighbors, kids friends, etc, and school them on what IU basketball is about. I've taken my nephew to every Hoosier Hysteria I can when back in Indiana. I try to get my niece and nephew to watch games, do IU chants, talk about the games, players, and previous coaches, show them old clips of Smart's shot, Calbert's ability to use screens to get his midrange jumper, and emphasis the toughness IU once played with. I have little doubt my nephew will attend all IU basketball games when he's a student.

It's our, the diehards, to remind the next generation what IU basketball means and the importance of attending games. Go Hoosiers!


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[Hutch89 2,946]

31 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Maybe, but if you don't give a damn about something and just let the world pass you by; you'll lead a "whatever" kind of life, and I have no interest in that.   Passion has built every great thing in this country; and this is something about which I have passion.  I'm not you and you're not me.  I chill out when I don't care about the result or outcome, as do most people.   What's your message?

I agree with that belief, but... 

"You are so full of BS, I barely know how to respond.  Except to call complete bull sh*t on you, which this is"

oh the hostility :) 

[Aaron 4,387]

26 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

Just one question. Were you born and raised in Indiana?


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Yes. Born and bred in Bloomington. Diehard fan since Mid 90's when I was around 8 or 9 years old. Now live in Indy since graduating IU but lived in Indiana my whole life in either Bloomington (21 years) or Indy (9 years).

[HoosierDYT 1,757]

I think we are over complicating things. If we win and are consistently good, people will come.


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[Old Friend 8,582]

30 minutes ago, schimpfj said:

I think we are over complicating things. If we win and are consistently good, people will come.


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The crowd fuels the team.  The crowd has always been part of the reason we have been consistently good.  Regardless of the age of students and their knowledge of the history and culture of this program; Indiana is simply not "everyone else."   No more than Kansas is or Duke or North Carolina.  Indiana is a historical college basketball blue blood.   We have the largest (non modern) on campus basketball arena in the country - only the new, sterile arenas are larger.  Students get more tickets than any student body in the country, and they're generally apathetic unless a "big game" is in town.   Students are part of the reason either way.  They either help the program or they hurt it; and by leaving tons of empty seats, they're sure not helping.

[KB0 827]

5 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

The crowd fuels the team.  The crowd has always been part of the reason we have been consistently good.  Regardless of the age of students and their knowledge of the history and culture of this program; Indiana is simply not "everyone else."   No more than Kansas is or Duke or North Carolina.  Indiana is a historical college basketball blue blood.   We have the largest (non modern) on campus basketball arena in the country - only the new, sterile arenas are larger.  Students get more tickets than any student body in the country, and they're generally apathetic unless a "big game" is in town.   Students are part of the reason either way.  They either help the program or they hurt it; and by leaving tons of empty seats, they're sure not helping.

Guess what. The Duke student paper had an article complaining about their student section against Virginia. 

This is a problem for every single school. Across all sports. Also, the "back in my day" mentality is partially to blame, because people will always remember things as better than they were. 

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

If you're in the entertainment business, which Indiana basketball is, and you're having attendance issues, improve your entertainment value. It's not the consumers fault they don't want to consume your product. It's Indiana's job to make their product more desirable than the other products on the market. Simple business concepts here.

[mdn82 25,970]

Guess what. The Duke student paper had an article complaining about their student section against Virginia. 
This is a problem for every single school. Across all sports. Also, the "back in my day" mentality is partially to blame, because people will always remember things as better than they were. 

Ha I won’t. We were able to get liquor in easily and that didn’t lead to the best things when you are taking shots for threes. The more I think about this, incentivizing kids for going to games might be a way to increase attendance. This is something I think both sides of the argument realizes change is needed in some way. Going at this rate long run for students will do them more harm than good. Just telling kids to go isn’t working. There has to be a common ground to get kids there. IMO a discussion needs to be had between the athletic office and some students to decide how to get them to go and consequences should they not go. The team needs the students. The students obviously don’t need the team.


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[Old Friend 8,582]

35 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

If you're in the entertainment business, which Indiana basketball is, and you're having attendance issues, improve your entertainment value. It's not the consumers fault they don't want to consume your product. It's Indiana's job to make their product more desirable than the other products on the market. Simple business concepts here.

If we're talking about printer ink or business shirts, you're right, and it IS that simple.  It's not that simple in this case.   The problem is, we're talking about a lot of things that are intangible, and crowd affects the on-court product.  More complicated business concept, here.   

Our crowd and our environment can have a direct affect on recruits' opinions of our program and  whether or not they would like to play at Indiana, and all you have to do is look through quotes of some kids who have been through a visit during a "big game" and those who saw us play....Rutgers.  A kid's experience and perception affects his decision, which ultimately affects the talent level that affects the product on the floor down the road. 

Crowd involvement and participation also directly affects a team's performance.....it creates home court advantage and it can alleviate it if the crowd is sterile; and you know that as well as I do.  Buildings don't create that home court advantage; crowds do.   Students fuel the rest of the crowd because of the energy they bring.

So to say it's not the consumers' "fault" (wrong word) they don't want to consume the product has more layers to it than you suggest.  A deeper dive into the concept provides some additional thoughts.   The consumer - in a unique situation compared to general business - can have a direct affect on the product they choose to consume.  Kinda' like when consumers generally said they hated the "new Coke."  The old one came back.   The "back in my day" formula.   A direct result of consumer involvement.