Indiana at Virginia - Saturday 9/9 @ 3:30 ET on ESPNU

[Hoosierfan2017]

The thing is, all we need Ramsey to be is average.  25-30 pass attempts, 200 yards, preferably zero turnovers. We have a good enough defense to where if we can get that out of our quarterback then I think we'll be in good shape. We don't need Ramsey to sit in the pocket and make "NFL throws". What we need is a quarterback that can manage the game and not turn the ball over. Lagow can't do that. Sure, he can throw a perfect spiral 60 yard bomb, but we don't know if our receiver is going to catch it, if the other team is going to catch it, or if the lady at the ticket booth is going to catch it. He just isn't a reliable quarterback.

With this being his last year I would much rather throw the redshirt freshman into the fire, especially since there isn't, imo, a drop off when you go with Ramsey. 

[Old Friend]

1 minute ago, TXHoosierDaddy said:

I agree with this a lot more than comparing Ramsey to Diamont in your previous post. Yes, Lagow has the better arm but I feel that Ramsey being able to run is so much more valuable than sacrificing some arm strength based on the fact that there isn't much run game in general and you can't be one dimensional against good teams. I think we do see Lagow this year. At the same time, if Ramsey can provide value and is even close to Lagow you have to go with him b/c he is the future where Lagow has 10 games left. 

With the receivers we have?  We're going to need throws outside the numbers.  We just are.  We need to be multi-dimensional; but we need arm strength better than what Ramsey gives them.  Diamont's strength was the read option and speed.  Same with Ramsey.  His throw to Hall was simply an out and up with no safety help.  He had to throw it ~ 35 yards.  Any good college QB can make that throw over a smaller corner.  

Lagow's arm will be needed.  What we need is a running game to keep the defense honest. When he was in the game both this week and last, we didn't have that.  Game plan changed....and playbook changed when Ramsey came in. Lagow threw no screens or delayed drags.  He was asked to make tough throws from the pocket, and today, he didn't make them.  Last week, he did.  I like the change up; I just don't think this needs to be "bash Lagow and sit him forever" because teams can take Ramsey away and his arm can't bail him out.  What we really have are two incomplete QB's.

If we start Ramsey, defenses will key on the read option with ends and linebackers playing very differently than they did today with Ramsey in the game.  Ends were crashing w Lagow, and linebackers either dropping into coverage or filling A/B gaps. Perfect for an option QB, and Virginia clearly wasn't ready for that.  I just think it's a lot more complicated than saying "Lagow sucks, sit him;" and I think some are kinda' over stating how much better Ramsey is than Diamont was.  

[lucel15]

Honestly idk what to think. 

[Old Friend]

Here you go fellas.  Selective memory aside; there are a couple of pretty solid throws here.  You're making statements based on one throw, AND saying Diamont couldn't make them?   Damn these highlight reels.  They take away so many narratives when you so badly want someone else to be wrong.   Check out his HS stats at the beginning.  We're not taking about a kid who couldn't throw it.  

 

[Hoosierfan2017]

Personally I'd be fine with Lagow not taking another snap the rest of the season. Switching quarterbacks back and forth is the worst thing you could do. Ramsey showed me enough today to want to roll with him from here on out. 

[Hoosierfan2017]

2 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Here you go fellas.  Selective memory aside; there are a couple of pretty solid throws here.  You're making statements based on one throw, AND saying Diamont couldn't make them?   Damn these highlight reels.  They take away so many narratives when you so badly want someone else to be wrong.  

 

Zander has a career passing percentage of 49.4%. He threw for two career touchdown passes. He was very bad. Ramsey threw two touchdowns this afternoon alone. To try and compare the two is absurd. 

[Old Friend]

3 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Personally I'd be fine with Lagow not taking another snap the rest of the season. Switching quarterbacks back and forth is the worst thing you could do. Ramsey showed me enough today to want to roll with him from here on out. 

Think you're overestimating what he'd do when teams prepare for him.  There's a reason Indiana used Diamont as a change up a year ago. He was effective that way.  As a full time starter?  Not so much.

[Hoosierfan2017]

3 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Think you're overestimating what he'd do when teams prepare for him.  There's a reason Indiana used Diamont as a change up a year ago. He was effective that way.  As a full time starter?  Not so much.

There's literally zero reason to compare Zander and Ramsey. They can both run the football, but that's it. These were Zander's 2014 numbers, the only time that he got extended starting reps. 

[Miller'sTheMan]

11 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Here you go fellas.  Selective memory aside; there are a couple of pretty solid throws here.  You're making statements based on one throw, AND saying Diamont couldn't make them?   Damn these highlight reels.  They take away so many narratives when you so badly want someone else to be wrong.   Check out his HS stats at the beginning.  We're not taking about a kid who couldn't throw it.  

 

I think you proved our point..

This was a highlight video of our quarterback, by his junior year.

How many of his highlights were passes? 4.

In a 6 minute video of his career highlights, only four were pass plays (and one was like a 15 yard pass).

Says all you need to know.

 

Serious question, has Zander ever completed 16 passes in a game?

[Hoosierfan2017]

5 minutes ago, Miller'sTheMan said:

I think you proved our point..

This was a highlight video of our quarterback, by his junior year.

How many of his highlights were passes? 4.

In a 6 minute video of his career highlights, only four were pass plays (and one was like a 15 yard pass).

Says all you need to know.

 

Serious question, has Zander ever completed 16 passes in a game?

Nope. He also only threw for more than 120 yards in a game once, and more than 100 yards only 3 times. 

[Miller'sTheMan]

Just now, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Nope. He only threw for more than 120 yards in a game once. 

So Ramsey passed Zander's career high for passing in his first opportunity? Yeah, the comparison to Zander holds a lot of weight....

[Hoosierfan2017]

5 minutes ago, Miller'sTheMan said:

So Ramsey passed Zander's career high for passing in his first opportunity? Yeah, the comparison to Zander holds a lot of weight....

In less than 3 quarters too. 

[Old Friend]

13 minutes ago, Miller'sTheMan said:

I think you proved our point..

This was a highlight video of our quarterback, by his junior year.

How many of his highlights were passes? 4.

In a 6 minute video of his career highlights, only four were pass plays (and one was like a 15 yard pass).

Says all you need to know.

 

Serious question, has Zander ever completed 16 passes in a game?

That was for those who said Zander couldn't make the throw to Hale.  People above made comparisons based on one throw, saying Zander couldn't make that throw and the comparison was absurd.  If you're objective at all...you know as well as I do this video refutes that claim.  Yes.  He could have made that throw.   He wasn't asked to make lots of throws.  He was a read option QB.   The video does in fact say all you need to know; but context matters.  Help me understand how making statements based on one throw is an accurate or reasonable thought process, when a video disproves what they were saying?  You lost me.

Serious answer.   He was never asked to.  

[Old Friend]

8 minutes ago, Miller'sTheMan said:

So Ramsey passed Zander's career high for passing in his first opportunity? Yeah, the comparison to Zander holds a lot of weight....

What holds no weight is Zander was never asked to throw the ball much. We had a FAR better running game when he was here; and generally speaking he was a substitute to run the read option.   You really think that's an equal comparison?

[Hoosierfan2017]

We showed in the Ohio State game that we run some read option with Ramsey. UVA knew that, and I assume it was mentioned while they were preparing against us. Sure they likely didn't expect to see it for the entire game, but I don't think it's accurate to say that we completely caught them off guard by playing Ramsey. 

[Hoosierfan2017]

Just now, Old Friend said:

What holds no weight is Zander was never asked to throw the ball much. We had a FAR better running game when he was here; and generally speaking he was a substitute to run the read option.   You really think that's an equal comparison?

He was asked to throw more in these four games in 2014 than Ramsey was asked to throw this afternoon. With a much better running game, and a much better offensive line he was a much worse quarterback

. 

[Miller'sTheMan]

5 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

What holds no weight is Zander was never asked to throw the ball much. We had a FAR better running game when he was here; and generally speaking he was a substitute to run the read option.   You really think that's an equal comparison?

Zander has been asked to throw this much, he's just never been good at it.

[johnsoniu]

Pop in to catch some post game chatter and I get a Zander Diamont highlight vid. Indiana football never ceases to amaze me.

Good, solid win. Nice bounce back. I like Ramsey, but as Old Friend mentioned, it will be different when teams have time to  prepare for him. Hope he and the staff are up to it, but I like what I saw. Onward.

Go Hoosiers!

[Hoosierfan2017]

Lol what a joke. Just boggles my mind. 

 

[cthomas]

It seems odd to call an IU football game a must win, but this one really was. I liked what Ramsey did, but for me the jury is still out on our qb situation. Regardless, we still have to start winning the recruiting battles to move up in the standings. Now we are hoping to upset teams to get to a winning season. That's just not a formula that will work most of the time.