Player and Recruit Retention News/Discussion & Potential Transfers

[bigrod]

3 minutes ago, Josh said:

Curious...what don't you like about it?

Ron Patterson could answer that better than anyone here. Probably the "movement" to the end of TCTC in-state recruiting.

[Josh]

Ron Patterson could answer that better than anyone here. Probably the "movement" to the end of TCTC in-state recruiting.

Didn't Patterson get busted cheating on his admissions exam, so he never officially got admitted into the university? Am I missing something?

[Hoosierfan2017]

2 minutes ago, Josh said:

Curious...what don't you like about it?

To me it made it seem like he didn't have a good grip on the roster situation and was just winging it. I didn't like how he would force some players out to make room for new ones. Like this past year Crean was looking like he was recruiting a five man class and now we see that finding room for three is hard enough. I think it weighs on guys and negatively impacts them when they see their coach out recruiting over them, and I think it burned some bridges with high school coaches. 

[bigrod]

4 minutes ago, Josh said:

Didn't Patterson get busted cheating on his admissions exam, so he never officially got admitted into the university? Am I missing something?

You seem very angry, Tom. Is everything alright?

[Tom White]

1 hour ago, Stromboli said:

Clifton isn't ready (IMO), and doesn't want to be in the paint anyway.

For what it is worth, Bryant wasn't exactly living in the paint either. At least on offense.

[Josh]

You seem very angry, Tom. Is everything alright?

I'm not Tom, and I'm great! Thanks for asking.

What am I missing from your Ron Patterson scenario?

[Walking Boot of Doom]

With the new draft rule and the prevalence of transferring, oversigning is a necessary evil as part of managing a roster. I don't think it was a big issue under Crean, and I don't expect it to become an issue under Archie.


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[ElectricBoogaloo]

20 minutes ago, Josh said:

Curious...what don't you like about it?

Missing on Gary Harris because of the oversign is one very clear reason to dislike it.

[bigrod]

I'm not Tom, and I'm great! Thanks for asking.

What am I missing from your Ron Patterson scenario?

I'm not sure what you are missing, but I do know there wasn't a scholarship available for him. 13-14=-1


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[Josh]

I'm not sure what you are missing, but I do know there wasn't a scholarship available for him. 13-14=-1


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Good thing he couldn't get admitted then?

There was a plan in place had he gotten admitted. Same thing Archie is doing now.

[HoosierAloha]

Ron Patterson, Matt Roth, and several others felt forced out. Ron didn't help himself by his actions but if their was a roster spot I'm sure he would have been on the team. Oversigning forces players out and can create a negative environment. Archie is cleaning something up that Crean was known to do every year. There are many successful programs that can manage their roster without oversigning. I hope this is something Archie is able to do it.

[Josh]

Ron Patterson, Matt Roth, and several others felt forced out. Ron didn't help himself by his actions but if their was a roster spot I'm sure he would have been on the team. Oversigning forces players out and can create a negative environment. Archie is cleaning something up that Crean was known to do every year. There are many successful programs that can manage their roster without oversigning. I hope this is something Archie is able to do it.

That's fair, although Patterson is a bad example. He made his own bed.

[bigrod]

5 minutes ago, Josh said:

That's fair, although Patterson is a bad example. He made his own bed.

I had never read about him cheating, but that he didn't "fully qualify". He took summer courses at IU. How did he do that if he wasn't admitted?

[Hoosierfan2017]

I feel like if there had been a scholarship for Patterson we would've "found a way" to keep him eligible. 

[LamarCheeks]

9 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I feel like if there had been a scholarship for Patterson we would've "found a way" to keep him eligible. 

Yep. Had we not been oversigned by one, he would've been admitted.

[LamarCheeks]

In slight defense of Crean (and I don't necessarily like to defend him), the NCAA does coaches no favors with the time element of guys being able to pull out of the draft. It can't be easy trying to sign a class when you don't know who's going and who's staying -- May 24 is awfully late to be trying to determine that. Granted, you should have a decent idea, but you can't always be 100 percent positive. Say, for instance Archie lets Durham and Moore out of their LOIs, figuring Blackman and Bryant will come back. Then, the latter two hire agents and stay in the draft. You've lost two pretty decent recruits. I think guys should be able to get evaluated before deciding to stay or go, but the time frame needs to be revisited -- perhaps tightened up a bit or something. 

[Redandyz]

37 minutes ago, bigrod said:

I had never read about him cheating, but that he didn't "fully qualify". He took summer courses at IU. How did he do that if he wasn't admitted?

Regardless I think it is safe to say we dodged a bit of a bullet with him.  He struggled at Syracuse before heading to IUPUI and averaging under 10 points a game.  Maybe he does better under Crean, but sounds he was the odd man out in that class and likely doesn't play a ton.  I was excited about him, but never really panned out.

[JSHoosier]

1 hour ago, HoosierAloha said:

Ron Patterson, Matt Roth, and several others felt forced out. Ron didn't help himself by his actions but if their was a roster spot I'm sure he would have been on the team. Oversigning forces players out and can create a negative environment. Archie is cleaning something up that Crean was known to do every year. There are many successful programs that can manage their roster without oversigning. I hope this is something Archie is able to do it.

I don't really buy that oversigning is necessary.  There's no rule against being under the scholarship limit, and even Crean with his wacky substitutions didn't go 11 or 12 deep; if you are there are other issues than being under the limit.

I really don't like the "it works itself out" argument some use; of course it does, there is literally no alternative.

[Walking Boot of Doom]

I don't really buy that oversigning is necessary.  There's no rule against being under the scholarship limit, and even Crean with his wacky substitutions didn't go 11 or 12 deep; if you are there are other issues than being under the limit.
I really don't like the "it works itself out" argument some use; of course it does, there is literally no alternative.

Without oversigning, we wouldn't have a recruiting class right now, despite having four players currently in the draft. It is absolutely necessary.


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[Hovadipo]

As far as I know, Ron Patterson didn't ever play here because of Ron Patterson. Something about a summer class he needed to get admitted or a summer class here and he flunked out. That doesn't seem like an oversign thing to me at all. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, and I have no doubt someone will.