TOM CREAN FIRED

[Uspshoosier 45,633]

Prohm at Iowa state also improved Iowa states D this year dramatically while improving their offense. But its too soon to say if that will be carried forward and sustained

yeah hey have regressed the last 5 games on the defensive side

[Brass Cannon 24,726]

no prob to me it sounds like you look down on Syracuse because it's a "zone" defense which you seem to think automatically can be adjusted against. Their zone is based on length it is not a normal zone. He does a hell of a job recruiting players for his system. Fwiw Syracuse was a 4 seed but 10th in kenpom. 29 offensive, and that Zone defense was 8th defensively

 

I don't look down on their zone.  I look down on coaches who know they are playing Syracuse for 5 days and don't bother teaching their kids the basics of breaking a zone. 

[Uspshoosier 45,633]

I don't look down on their zone. I look down on coaches who know they are playing Syracuse for 5 days and don't bother teaching their kids the basics of breaking a zone.

maybe they did but Syracuse's defense was just better on that given day

[Brass Cannon 24,726]

Drew has consistently fielded an offense and defense below a level I would find acceptable at Indiana. In his best season coaching, with a top-5 defense, he is still 12 spots behind us on KenPom. 41st best offense his second year. And... what? Why not say that about literally any coach? He also doesn't have to play against guys who are recruited as highly. Tom Crean can't recruit guys who are good at both offense and defense to Indiana, maybe he could at Kentucky.

 

Billy Kennedy is closer, but still no dice. Until last year, his numbers were consistent between SE Louisiana, Murray, and A&M. He even had quick flashes of decency (like this year) at Murray.

 

And your love life would be a great analogy if it was at all analogous. We can't date around looking for the right match, we can't hang out with a coach for a couple of months and then decide it's not working out so we see if we can meet a new coach at Nick's. It's like if you knew your ex wasn't the one, but after you break up with her you have to enter into another relationship within the month and you have to stay in that relationship for at least 3 years. Selecting a college coach is a big commitment and can tank your program in just a few short years if done incorrectly. Just look at schools who made bad decisions for short-term coaches and how long it took them to climb back up, a good example is Indiana University if you ever watch them. It took them 10 years to make it past the first weekend after they made some bad hiring decisions back in 2000.  And they got stuck with one of them for 6 years! Can you imagine if you knew it wasn't working out with your ex so you hastily decided to hook-up with her best friend and got stuck with her for 6 years even though she kind of sucked?

 

See i think this obsession with giving coaches 6 years is part of this fanbases problem.  When we realize somebody is the wrong person you get rid of them.  Thats how employers work also, you sometimes have to fire people before lining their replacements up. 

 

And how can you say Kennedy's numbers are the same.  His average defense at Murray state was 144.4, at Texas its 51.8.  His average offense 146 at Texas opposed to 162.8 at Murray state. 

 

Plus at Murray state he only had 1 top 100 offense hes already had 2 at Texas and its moving in the right direction. And top 100 defenses every year at Texas as opposed to only once at Murray

[NRT137 316]

This whole year is judged by the ncaa tourney. If we can't go deep with this roster and coach, then WHAT roster can go deep? Next year, the coach isn't changing, and I don't believe our coach will "learn from this year" to the point where we adjust our approach to the ncaa tournament.

[Brass Cannon 24,726]

maybe they did but Syracuse's defense was just better on that given day

 

Or our 5 star PG hadn't been prepared and thats why the offense ran better with an Injured Jordan hulls running it.  So of course after we went on a run to tie it Crean pulled Hulls and put Yogi back in. 

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Drew has consistently fielded an offense and defense below a level I would find acceptable at Indiana. In his best season coaching, with a top-5 defense, he is still 12 spots behind us on KenPom. 41st best offense his second year. And... what? Why not say that about literally any coach? He also doesn't have to play against guys who are recruited as highly. Tom Crean can't recruit guys who are good at both offense and defense to Indiana, maybe he could at Kentucky.

 

Billy Kennedy is closer, but still no dice. Until last year, his numbers were consistent between SE Louisiana, Murray, and A&M. He even had quick flashes of decency (like this year) at Murray.

 

And your love life would be a great analogy if it was at all analogous. We can't date around looking for the right match, we can't hang out with a coach for a couple of months and then decide it's not working out so we see if we can meet a new coach at Nick's. It's like if you knew your ex wasn't the one, but after you break up with her you have to enter into another relationship within the month and you have to stay in that relationship for at least 3 years. Selecting a college coach is a big commitment and can tank your program in just a few short years if done incorrectly. Just look at schools who made bad decisions for short-term coaches and how long it took them to climb back up, a good example is Indiana University if you ever watch them. It took them 10 years to make it past the first weekend after they made some bad hiring decisions back in 2000.  And they got stuck with one of them for 6 years! Can you imagine if you knew it wasn't working out with your ex so you hastily decided to hook-up with her best friend and got stuck with her for 6 years even though she kind of sucked?

Thanks for taking this one over, I'm tapping out. Logic need not apply...

[Brass Cannon 24,726]

Thanks for taking this one over, I'm tapping out. Logic need not apply...

Says the guy that says we risk becoming mediocre if we don't stick with the mediocrity. 

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

See i think this obsession with giving coaches 6 years is part of this fanbases problem.  When we realize somebody is the wrong person you get rid of them.  Thats how employers work also, you sometimes have to fire people before lining their replacements up. 

 

And how can you say Kennedy's numbers are the same.  His average defense at Murray state was 144.4, at Texas its 51.8.  His average offense 146 at Texas opposed to 162.8 at Murray state. 

 

Plus at Murray state he only had 1 top 100 offense hes already had 2 at Texas and its moving in the right direction. And top 100 defenses every year at Texas as opposed to only once at Murray

How about 3 years like I said? We just happened to give Davis 6 years (4 post-championship game). You can't fire a college coach for underperforming with players that were not recruited for his system.

 

Yeah, Kennedy is having a good year. Has Crean ever had a good year? Does that change his ability? It's not a trend until it's a trend.

[Brass Cannon 24,726]

One more thing Id like to say on Kennedy is that people like to give Crean a pass on his first 3 years.  Lets do the same with Kennedy.  Years 4 and 5 at Texas and Murray State. 

 

Texas he averaged 61st on offense.  38.5 on defense and 41.5 together in Kenpom.  At Murray state 102 offense 81.5 defense and 86th together.

 

Thats about a 40 point jump after he had time to build the respective programs.    Is that hes learning and becoming a better head coach?  Or is it the better resources at a bigger name school?

 

It doesn't really matter, because either way the right guy will do better here as opposed to where he had been. 

[Uspshoosier 45,633]

Or our 5 star PG hadn't been prepared and thats why the offense ran better with an Injured Jordan hulls running it. So of course after we went on a run to tie it Crean pulled Hulls and put Yogi back in.

link to where is wasn't prepared

[Brass Cannon 24,726]

How about 3 years like I said? We just happened to give Davis 6 years (4 post-championship game). You can't fire a college coach for underperforming with players that were not recruited for his system.

 

Yeah, Kennedy is having a good year. Has Crean ever had a good year? Does that change his ability? It's not a trend until it's a trend.

 

2 groups of five years of data is not a good year.  That is a Trend. 

[Brass Cannon 24,726]

link to where is wasn't prepared

 

Did you just resort to "Link or it didn't happen".  He was lost out there, an injured Jordan hulls spurred a come back by running the offense better than him.  And I love Jordan hulls, but he is not a floor general by any stretch of the imagination. 

[Uspshoosier 45,633]

Did you just resort to "Link or it didn't happen". He was lost out there, an injured Jordan hulls spurred a come back by running the offense better than him. And I love Jordan hulls, but he is not a floor general by any stretch of the imagination.

so a freshman guard looked lost in the biggest game of his life on a big stage. Not all freshman can be like tyus jones. You seemed so factual in that he wasn't prepared I thought maybe I missed an interview somewhere that you saw

[Brass Cannon 24,726]

so a freshman guard looked lost in the biggest game of his life on a big stage. Not all freshman can be like tyus jones

 

Well then perhaps Crean should have recognized that and not taken Hulls out after he had led the comeback. 

[Uspshoosier 45,633]

Just curious brass when was the last time in your opinion iu wasn't mediocre? Hopefully you have been this passionate about not being mediocre for 20 years

[Brass Cannon 24,726]

Just curious brass when was the last time in your opinion iu wasn't mediocre? Hopefully you have been this passionate about not being mediocre for 20 years

 

Sadly under Sampson I don't think we were mediocre or even if we were we weren't going to be for long, but he was cheating which is unacceptable.  I am only 29, and I can only vaguely remember a time where we were a national power, I feel like it all started to slip away around 93.  To the point that by the time I was a teenager our national relevance was all gone. 

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

2 groups of five years of data is not a good year.  That is a Trend. 

Averages are not trends either. Do you have somewhere where you presented 10 years of data?

[Uspshoosier 45,633]

Sadly under Sampson I don't think we were mediocre or even if we were we weren't going to be for long, but he was cheating which is unacceptable. I am only 29, and I can only vaguely remember a time where we were a national power, I feel like it all started to slip away around 93. To the point that by the time I was a teenager our national relevance was all gone.

being a iu fan in your 20's has to be a little frustrating. I'm 37 and got to see iu win a title and in the late 80's and early 90's be a national power. You guys in your 20's have to listen to us about how great it was. You are correct after our elite 8 loss to Kansas in 94 the early exits in the tournament just kept adding up and slowly but surely we are are where we are today. hopefully for the younger generation you guys will get to experience iu being at the highest level. In my opinion the younger crowd took the 2012 failure harder because that was the closest we had came in 10 years. I just saw it has a missed opoirtunity but stuff happens in the tournament. Iu lost to Cleveland st 1st round in 86, Won it all in 87, lost to Richmond in 1st Rd in 88

[Chips&Dipo 1,464]

Sadly under Sampson I don't think we were mediocre or even if we were we weren't going to be for long, but he was cheating which is unacceptable.  I am only 29, and I can only vaguely remember a time where we were a national power, I feel like it all started to slip away around 93.  To the point that by the time I was a teenager our national relevance was all gone. 

Sampson's only full year at IU he went 21-11 and lost in the second round.