TOM CREAN FIRED

[8bucks 6,562]

Disagree. We have more depth in the post than at guard this year, given the performances of Beifeldt, OG, and Morgan.

Ok but if you lost Biedeldt would you feel pretty good about just having the freshman? I would not. The plan for the year was to have two, maybe three more bigs between HP, DD, and EH.

[RBB89 3,497]

How about we let the season play out and enjoy watching an 11 game winning streak and games like last night? Talking about firing or keeping someone in January is pointless.

Or is that crazy talk?

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Ok but if you lost Biedeldt would you feel pretty good about just having the freshman? I would not. The plan for the year was to have two, maybe three more bigs between HP, DD, and EH.

I'd feel better than if we lost RoJo.

[seanmm1971 1,437]

If...dog...rabbit

[RBB89 3,497]

Who cares what other programs are doing. We aren't Purdue, or Michigan State, or Maryland. If you guys actually think that highly of our program you shouldn't be using the argument, "See we aren't shitting the bed like these other programs, Crean deserves even more time!"

Defensively they're playing better. Offensively there hasn't been a single adjustment to what we've ever seen with Crean. Every year since 2011-2012 we have games where they look like world beaters offensively like this year with Ohio State and Illinois. And then we have games were a bunch of guys just stand around and watch one guy dribble the air out of the ball a lot, like most of that Minnesota game, Rutgers was a lot of the same. The same thing we see with Bryant, not being able to get him the ball consistently game to game, or even within game, we saw with Zeller and we saw with Vonleh. You're giving him some weird credit for making a nonexistent change to literally anything they are doing offensively.

Our offense is routinely highly rated under Crean. The problem is our D is usually atrocious. There isn't a single team out there that doesn't occasionally look bad on offense. I've seen a ton of standing around from Kansas and MSU lately...they've looked awful. And yes, I'm referring to other programs because IU isn't some magical program elevated above the others. Bryant has been pretty dominant lately and we've been really making a point to get it to him. Last night they were giving us the 3, so we drilled 19. Good teams can win in multiple ways.

[Yogi'sBicep 1,048]

Who cares what other programs are doing. We aren't Purdue, or Michigan State, or Maryland. If you guys actually think that highly of our program you shouldn't be using the argument, "See we aren't shitting the bed like these other programs, Crean deserves even more time!"

Defensively they're playing better. Offensively there hasn't been a single adjustment to what we've ever seen with Crean. Every year since 2011-2012 we have games where they look like world beaters offensively like this year with Ohio State and Illinois. And then we have games were a bunch of guys just stand around and watch one guy dribble the air out of the ball a lot, like most of that Minnesota game, Rutgers was a lot of the same. The same thing we see with Bryant, not being able to get him the ball consistently game to game, or even within game, we saw with Zeller and we saw with Vonleh. You're giving him some weird credit for making a nonexistent change to literally anything they are doing offensively.

if we had lost to bottom feeders, the argument would be "Top tier times like (exampled above) don't lose to cellar dwellers." You choose to be pessimistic and post of it & I have yet to call you out on it. My comments are according to what I've seen this season. Fluent offense is what I see. Top 20 offense is what I see, and offense has not really been a CTC problem. I live life with a optimistic view. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for this year until proven different THIS YEAR.

[hoosierpap 14,300]

I get your point and agree, we've hardly played any truly solid teams. But those same teams have also shown that they have the ability to beat the best/better teams in the country. OSU over UK, Wisconsin over MSU, and U of I over Purdue. Better teams than us haven't gotten it done against the same teams we rolled. Not implying any kind of transitive relationship, just pointing out that very few other teams in the country are taking care of business against the same talent.

 

My only opinion is that this team and Coach are performing near the best we could have hoped for at the moment, and they have the schedule to turn these performances into a habit before we get to a real challenge. Hopefully, these habits are fully formed by then.

And people are punishing Crean for it in here...

 

I get the hesitancy and things could certainly take a turn for the worse in Feb, I too, have concerns. But it isn't like anyone is in here asking for Crean to get an extension. Just a little credit where credit is due, and I have seen some acknowledge that so it isn't everyone. I guess I just don't get why people don't wait until it does go south to be so down. 

[biteoftheapple 4,115]

Agree Pap. We are feeding the post better than,anytime I can recall, under CTC. Troy playing behind the zone seemed a new wrinkle. When,we move man and ball we look very good. And the new found intensity on defense is refreshing.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

And people are punishing Crean for it in here...

 

I get the hesitancy and things could certainly take a turn for the worse in Feb, I too, have concerns. But it isn't like anyone is in here asking for Crean to get an extension. Just a little credit where credit is due, and I have seen some acknowledge that so it isn't everyone. I guess I just don't get why people don't wait until it does go south to be so down. 

Exactly. Regardless of what is to come, Crean has effectively dumped a bucket of liquid nitrogen all over his seat. We demanded change after Maui, and he and the team made change happen. I have not seen a Crean coached team display this kind of growth and change during his time at Indiana.

 

For those who still want him fired, don't worry, he still has plenty of opportunities to take a blow torch to his seat. Hope he doesn't though, because this team is FUN.

[Yogi'sBicep 1,048]

And people are punishing Crean for it in here...

I get the hesitancy and things could certainly take a turn for the worse in Feb, I too, have concerns. But it isn't like anyone is in here asking for Crean to get an extension. Just a little credit where credit is due, and I have seen some acknowledge that so it isn't everyone. I guess I just don't get why people don't wait until it does go south to be so down.

LIFE IS HAPPY LIFE IS GOOD HOOSIERS ARE WINNING I LIKE HAPPY POSTS

[ALASKA HOOSIER 11,278]

Well, since it is a new day up here in Alaska and the Northern Lights were absolutely incredible this morning (never gets old!), I will add to this forum:

1. Our defense is actually doing well. I tend to focus on our defensive effort, for some odd reason. What that tells me is that CTC is actually listening to all of us and made a decision to stick to a basic defense and perform it well. Not try some crazy voodoo defense with smoke and mirrors as we have seen the past two years. He is actually coaching/teaching which has been non-existent for the past few years. I mean this is in a nice way......My opinion is that good defense can be coached. I only noticed a few breakdowns last night which can be fixed. I believe CTC would always try and let the athleticism of his players do the defense work which has NOT worked.

2. Our offense is different since the big ten start. There has been some standing around at times, but for the most part, the guards are trying to get the ball to the big man a good bit of time. Also, working the baseline last night against the zone was sweet! someone said this earlier, we have never done that before! TRUE!

 

Something has changed with the coaching at Indiana and it is very noticeable. Just seeing the changes brings me hope for our team and yes, i am pessimistic but man......i'm also excited. Did this guy actually get over his ego and listen to others to get this team ready for games? I think so!

 

It is true that we haven't played anyone worth a squat yet...and won......The rest of the season is super scary and that will reveal if the changes in coaching are legitimate.

 

I think we should refrain from the "fire CTC" rhetoric and let this season play out. He isn't going anywhere anytime soon so we might as well see the good that is happening and if it doesn't continue. poo poo on him again.....That's my plan. I'm soooo tired of having a shitty team. so friggin' tired!

[JSHoosier 20,625]

People want to talk in hypotheticals so much.  "This team could be special".  "If we get these players we could be dominant".  It's hope and dreams.  I'm analytical and at some point a resume is indicative of coach's caliber, at this point I'd say his resume is pretty indicative since it's the better part of 20 years; and he's never really won anything in that time.  That's why I bring it up so often, to me it does matter because of the sample size; for what people think this team COULD be we have a large sample of years to look at and say not likely.

 

At some point enough has to be enough.  There has to be a point where you just admit he's not good enough to reach the levels we should expect here.  A coach has to earn stability, giving a mediocre coach all the time he wants isn't going to make him any better; frankly, the results over his career shouldn't warrant the rope some want to give him.

[HoosierTrav 7,927]

And people are punishing Crean for it in here...

 

I get the hesitancy and things could certainly take a turn for the worse in Feb, I too, have concerns. But it isn't like anyone is in here asking for Crean to get an extension. Just a little credit where credit is due, and I have seen some acknowledge that so it isn't everyone. I guess I just don't get why people don't wait until it does go south to be so down. 

It's important to give credit where credit is due. Totally agree with that. I wish I did a better job of it honestly.  Your potentially valid criticisms become discredited when you refuse to do this..... Last night Crean out coached Groce hands down. He made some excellent play calls out of timeouts and the team seemed focused from tip to final buzzer. 

[seanmm1971 1,437]

People want to talk in hypotheticals so much. "This team could be special". "If we get these players we could be dominant". It's hope and dreams. I'm analytical and at some point a resume is indicative of coach's caliber, at this point I'd say his resume is pretty indicative since it's the better part of 20 years; and he's never really won anything in that time. That's why I bring it up so often, to me it does matter because of the sample size; for what people think this team COULD be we have a large sample of years to look at and say not likely.

At some point enough has to be enough. There has to be a point where you just admit he's not good enough to reach the levels we should expect here. A coach has to earn stability, giving a mediocre coach all the time he wants isn't going to make him any better; frankly, the results over his career shouldn't warrant the rope some want to give him.

And apparently that point hasn't been reached. At least by enough,or important enough people.

[mdn82 25,546]

People want to talk in hypotheticals so much. "This team could be special". "If we get these players we could be dominant". It's hope and dreams. I'm analytical and at some point a resume is indicative of coach's caliber, at this point I'd say his resume is pretty indicative since it's the better part of 20 years; and he's never really won anything in that time. That's why I bring it up so often, to me it does matter because of the sample size; for what people think this team COULD be we have a large sample of years to look at and say not likely.

At some point enough has to be enough. There has to be a point where you just admit he's not good enough to reach the levels we should expect here. A coach has to earn stability, giving a mediocre coach all the time he wants isn't going to make him any better; frankly, the results over his career shouldn't warrant the rope some want to give him.

Well most sports are more what have you done for me lately. Lately? He is on an 11 game winning streak. Tram is improving despite his history. I have yet to hear anyone mention during a press conference of a firing results from 15 years ago at a different school mean anything. I highly doubt as of today Glass is thinking Crean's seat is warm let alone hot. A month from now? Sure it could get real hot in a hurry. I doubt people will be as patient with him if we crap the bed down the stretch. As of this point there is plenty to be optimistic about. Whether or not people want to see that is on them. There is plenty to dislike but I have never seen coached team make the changes and grow the way his team has over the last month. Usually his teams have been the best they are going to be in November. Not this year. I am excited to see it play out either way.

[hoosierpap 14,300]

People want to talk in hypotheticals so much. "This team could be special". "If we get these players we could be dominant". It's hope and dreams. I'm analytical and at some point a resume is indicative of coach's caliber, at this point I'd say his resume is pretty indicative since it's the better part of 20 years; and he's never really won anything in that time. That's why I bring it up so often, to me it does matter because of the sample size; for what people think this team COULD be we have a large sample of years to look at and say not likely.

At some point enough has to be enough. There has to be a point where you just admit he's not good enough to reach the levels we should expect here. A coach has to earn stability, giving a mediocre coach all the time he wants isn't going to make him any better; frankly, the results over his career shouldn't warrant the rope some want to give him.

People talk in hypotheticals all the time on both sides. One side isn't unique in that. The main argument here is strength of schedule -"If we play like this against x y z, we'll lose", You're using a resume to project a hypothetical failure on Crean's part. Both hypotheticals. Some people are just living in the moment and watching the team they love play good basketball.

[8bucks 6,562]

And people are punishing Crean for it in here...

I get the hesitancy and things could certainly take a turn for the worse in Feb, I too, have concerns. But it isn't like anyone is in here asking for Crean to get an extension. Just a little credit where credit is due, and I have seen some acknowledge that so it isn't everyone. I guess I just don't get why people don't wait until it does go south to be so down.

This is the Fire Tom Crean thread after all.

I have seen a couple posts suggest he has done enough to have their support for next year. That creates the fury of response in this thread.

[attachment=3252:ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1453318809.646567.jpg]

[maxwell 605]

Thomas Bryan'ts significant improvement in defensive footwork & positioning has/will earn CTC & Staff their well deserved stay in 16/17.  Barring injury and the small percentage chance that he will leave for the NBA, next year's team will provide Coach Tom Crean a healthy extension.   The momentum is real! :popcorn:  :popcorn:  :popcorn:  

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

This is the Fire Tom Crean thread after all.

I have seen a couple posts suggest he has done enough to have their support for next year. That creates the fury of response in this thread.

ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1453318809.646567.jpg

 

I don't think myself, pap, or mdn82 have suggested that he's done enough to earn back our support for future years. Just that he's coaching at a high level right now, and talks of firing him are pretty much nonsensical at this point in time.*

 

*Unless Brad Stevens suddenly bolts from the Celtics and asks for the job.

[8bucks 6,562]

I don't think myself, pap, or mdn82 have suggested that he's done enough to earn back our support for future years. Just that he's coaching at a high level right now, and talks of firing him are pretty much nonsensical at this point in time.*

*Unless Brad Stevens suddenly bolts from the Celtics and asks for the job.

My response was in response to Pap who seemed surprised some were still finding more fault than silver linings. I think in general many of us are but the midseason quizzes have historically not led to great endings. Yogis Bicep had a post a few pages back saying Crean had earned his approval for another year. That precipitated the responses discounting things until we finish the year.

As for me, I listed my criteria in this thread and am open to another year but the standards are pretty high. For now, it is fun to watch them play.