24 year old loyal Hoosier fan

[Hoosierfan2017 21,258]

29 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Another difference between Crean and Knight. Crean runs around the square peg thinking of a thousand different ways to fit the square peg in the round hole. Knight would whittle away until that peg fit perfectly (or cuss, break, grab a 12 lb sledge hammer, drill out the round hole, etc.)

Our guys would probably still be running suicides right now because of the Nebraska loss if Knight was our coach lol. 

[reconmkd 4,361]

8 hours ago, mdn82 said:

I am getting old. I agree with everything said. Just my earliest memories were Steve Alford, Damon Bailey at the Dome, hating Glen Robinson, Brian Evans, Alan Henderson, Calbert Cheaney.

Then the flip side you guys think this is a dumpster fire. Think of Luke Recker. The balls to turn his back on IU and Knight? My god that would be like the starting 5 of UK ankling Zeller and all taking turns punching him in the nuts on national tv. I was in high school and it still didn't make sense to me. Then Collier, but he wasn't the 2nd coming of Bailey. Then Knight getting fired. This now is bad, but it's not the worse thing.

I know younger people can't understand the fixation with Knight. He is on the Mt. Rushmore of college basketball. Coach K is on his tier. Could coach and recruit and win. While running a clean program. It will get better. Been saying that for close to 20 years.


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7 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I am 36.

Calbert, Henderson teams were remarkable but I was young.

2002 I was in college and that was an incredibly fun year. We weren't anywhere close to the most talented team. But we beat the most talented team. That team played VERY hard and mostly smart. It was what turned me into an IUBB nut.

The "Zeller" Hoosiers were a joy to watch. Those teams were smart in spite of Crean. (Still had in-bounding issues and major league defensive weaknesses).

Last year's team was great when we hit our stride.

This year's team (re-Kansas) has potential but they are so lost and so unprepared. This losing streak is exposing everything that Crean struggles with.

I find myself easily rooting for OG, Juwan, Rojo, DD, McRoberts. The theme is they play hard on both sides of the court.

Crean has been driving me bonkers though so I'm discombobulated.

I want to be a blueblood. Recruit like a blueblood. Win like a blueblood.

I want a team that HATES to lose anything. I want a team whose primary goal is to WIN at IU.

Yep. That should do it.


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I agree. I started watching when I was really young in the 80s. My family were HUGE Knight fans and I can remember the '87 team barely cause I was really young. But I know one thing for sure, if Newkirk, O.G., Blackman, or anyone on the team slacked on D or kept turning the ball over like we do now, everyone of them would have been on the bench until lessons were learned. I am beginning to think that the "nice" guy routine that Crean is all to familiar with clouds the messages that he tries to give (I'm not defending him). Before the Wisky game he was spot on with how the game would play out, but it seemed his message never reached its intended audience.

Watching Knights teams was a blessing and getting to play basketball through high school with coaches that used the Knight system is probably the cause of my blood pressure spiking during the games this year. I would love to see some motion offense, some good ball screens, and down right fundamental basketball.

I really like O.G, Morgan, Davis, and ROJO, they remind me of the past players and generally show a ton of heart. But like others have mentioned, you give these guys to a coach like Knight, Coach K, or Izzo and I think there could be a NC in the picture. The talent is here, the fan base is here, just waiting on some one to get the team  here.

[pappy1865 2,204]

41 here.  42 in July.  I remember the mid 80's teams.  Man, fun times.  I've watched damn near every game for as long as I've been alive.  I hate to see players with talent not get used/motivated properly.  It used to mean something to play FOR Indiana, not AT Indiana.  I also as most of you know, graduated from Indiana State.  I've seen the same thing there in regards to players. Guys that beat some of the those Knight coached teams.  Played with fire and passion.  

Man, that 92-93 team was the best in the world until Henderson went down.  Probably my all-time favorite team.  Just fun to watch those old games.

[HoosierCoop 3,922]

"Efficiency is doing things right, while effectiveness is doing the right things."

Teams of IU past had both.  It is a combination to be successful.  In minimal occasions you can win with efficiency.

Efficiency in a team is communication, fundamentals, IQ, vision, respect, and determination.

Effectiveness is the tools and leadership that is provided to make your team efficient.  Culture, motivation, game plan, scouting, using strengths, skill improvement, and development.

Think of your favorite teams and players of the past.  Do these things relate?

I see neither in this team.

[mdn82 25,510]

Unfortunately Knight was irascible and would have a few down years due to lack of talent. However, he'd win multiple B10 championships and get IU a national championship every five or six years. His focus was defense, fundamentals, good shot selection, minimize turnovers, screening, get fouled and make free throws while minimizing fouls from his players. Most of his teams played with poise and heart. The team with Cheaney, the Grahams, (Pat was often injured) Reynolds, Eric Anderson, Henderson, Bailey et. al. was loaded, but every time IU players touched the ball in that final four game vs. Duke, Valentine blew his whistle. There was a huge disparity in fouls called against IU in that game. Yes I'm partial, but many felt that Valentine didn't like RMK. The aforementioned, sans Valentine, is part of what many IU fans liked with most of Knights teams.

Yep. 11 B1G titles, 5 Final Fours, and 3 titles in 29 years. Only a couple of years that were truly awful in those years. Our floor was 20 wins and an 8/9 seed. 22 of the 29 season saw 20 wins. Far less games for most of his career. 4 national coach of the year awards. Coach K has 3 national coach of the year. 12 Final Fours and 5 titles in 36 years. That is coach Knights impact on the game past his time. That and his graduation rate. I applaud Crean for what he has done there.


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[Alford Bailey 12,373]

2 hours ago, pappy1865 said:

41 here.  42 in July.  I remember the mid 80's teams.  Man, fun times.  I've watched damn near every game for as long as I've been alive.  I hate to see players with talent not get used/motivated properly.  It used to mean something to play FOR Indiana, not AT Indiana.  I also as most of you know, graduated from Indiana State.  I've seen the same thing there in regards to players. Guys that beat some of the those Knight coached teams.  Played with fire and passion.  

Man, that 92-93 team was the best in the world until Henderson went down.  Probably my all-time favorite team.  Just fun to watch those old games.

Loved those early 90s teams. Talented and fun to watch. Loved the 89 B1G championship team as well. Talk about getting something out of not a  of talent.

[Baltimore Hoosier 986]

32 years old.. My first memories are of the Bailey, Cheaney, Henderson, Graham team from 92-93 that lost to Kansas in the Elite 8. I think they lost one or two games all year in the B1G. And I vaguely remember the Final Four run the year before. Those teams were awesome. 2002 was an amazing year as well. I was in my senior year of high school. I was the only kid in the state of Maryland going nuts for Indiana basketball.

All that being said, I'm sad that it's come to this.. Talking about 20-25 year old memories. Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, etc are laughing at us. 

[HoosierAloha 30,067]

If you haven't read ITH's article on "What's wrong with Indiana", it's a good read. In the article they breakdown where Indiana is getting beat on defense. Transition defense is terrible and you might initially blame it on being lazy and players not getting back. I would argue the two main reasons IU is struggling in transition defense are turnovers and terrible shot selection.

Those were not only frowned upon under Knight but would get you a long vacation on the bench. In Crean's offense a "good shot" is anywhere you're "open." In Knight's offense you would see many good shots turned down to find a great shot.

Crean wants to bring physical fatigue to the game by running. This works sometimes but it's much easier for an opponent to slow us down than for us to speed an opponent up. (Especially when we're one of the worst teams in the nation at forcing turnovers) Knight's teams would physically and mentally wear you down by constant movement, off ball screens, drawing fouls, etc. Many opposing players would become mentally fatigued towards the end of the game and not fight through or over a screen leaving a shooter or cutter open.

[Stuhoo 80,481]

12 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

If you haven't read ITH's article on "What's wrong with Indiana", it's a good read. In the article they breakdown where Indiana is getting beat on defense. Transition defense is terrible and you might initially blame it on being lazy and players not getting back. I would argue the two main reasons IU is struggling in transition defense are turnovers and terrible shot selection.

Those were not only frowned upon under Knight but would get you a long vacation on the bench. In Crean's offense a "good shot" is anywhere you're "open." In Knight's offense you would see many good shots turned down to find a great shot.

Crean wants to bring physical fatigue to the game by running. This works sometimes but it's much easier for an opponent to slow us down than for us to speed an opponent up. (Especially when we're one of the worst teams in the nation at forcing turnovers) Knight's teams would physically and mentally wear you down by constant movement, off ball screens, drawing fouls, etc. Many opposing players would become mentally fatigued towards the end of the game and not fight through or over a screen leaving a shooter or cutter open.

 

^^THIS^^

[OliviaPope40 6,513]

Fifteen games into last season, Indiana’s defense was spearheading a turnaround. The Hoosiers were 12-3 overall and 2-0 in the Big Ten. Both of those wins came on the road. Indiana was two games into a stretch in which it would go seven straight (and nine of 10) holding conference foes under a point per possession.

As brilliant as the offense was, it was Indiana’s defense that could be relied upon (for the most part) when the shooting numbers dipped.

This season, that hasn’t been the case. Entering the conference opener against Nebraska, the Hoosiers ranked 36th nationally in Ken Pomeroy’s adjusted defensive efficiency rating at .96 points per possession allowed. Three losses later, Indiana is all the way down to 75th nationally at .99 points per possession allowed.

It’s been a complete free fall and only seems to be getting worse as the Hoosiers have had three of their four worst defensive games of the season in their current three-game skid.

The Hoosiers are being exposed in a few keys areas, some of which obvious to the naked eye and some of which require a deeper dive into advanced statistics.

Let’s start with the basics.

Currently, Indiana sits at 41st nationally in 3-point field goal defense. There’s obviously a luck factor involved in defending the 3-point shot, but it’s probably not a coincidence that Indiana is getting burned from distance in its losses and against better competition. Overall, teams are shooting 30.7 percent from deep against the Hoosiers. In their five losses, opponents are shooting 40.4 percent. In terms of made 3s, Indiana is allowing 6.5 per game overall, but 8.8 per game in losses. During the three-game losing streak, opponents are shooting 47.3 percent on 3s against Indiana (27-of-57).

Things haven’t been much better inside the arc. Indiana’s 2-point field goal percentage allowed for the season is 45.1. That ranks 74th nationally. In losses, that number is 51.3 percent. Indiana’s shot blocking has also taken a dip, albeit slightly, in losses. The Hoosiers are averaging 5.4 blocks per game, but just 4.4 in losses. Indiana’s season-to-date block percentage is 13.1, but just 11.4 percent in losses.

Besides the aforementioned slides, Indiana’s inability to force turnovers has been a season long problem. But it’s a lot worse in losses. Overall, the Hoosiers are scoring 14.5 points off of turnovers. In losses, they’re scoring just eight. Indiana’s turnover percentage forced (16) is the worst of any Big Ten team and 318th nationally.

So where, specifically, is Indiana getting burned defensively? In transition and guarding pick-and-roll ball handlers.

According to Synergy Sports, Indiana’s transition defense is the second worst among all Big Ten teams. The Hoosiers are 251st nationally in transition defense, allowing 1.05 points on transition possessions. Only Illinois at 1.07 allowed is worse.

The Hoosiers are better in pick-and-roll possessions, according to Synergy, but still have plenty of work to do. Indiana is seventh among Big Ten teams and 142th in the country in guarding ball handlers out of the pick-and-roll.

And although it’s not a huge component of defense at the college level (only 7.1 percent of all defensive possessions the Hoosiers have played), IU is just 315th nationally in guarding isolation situations, according to Synergy. In 82 isolation possessions, Indiana has allowed 77 points. Of Big Ten teams, only Northwestern is worse. Indiana is also in the bottom half nationally in guarding off of screens and hand offs, according to Synergy.

Add it all up and it becomes clear that, for all the complaints about Indiana’s offensive struggles and stagnation at times, the defense is a bigger source of the problem. Indiana has dropped off offensively from a season ago, but that was somewhat expected given the personnel losses in Yogi Ferrell, Troy Williams, Max Bielfedlt and Nick Zeisloft. The expectation was that the Hoosiers, with a bigger frontline and more length, would be able to make up for it with a better defense. Fifteen games in, that hasn’t been the case.

http://www.insidethehall.com/2017/01/05/whats-wrong-with-indiana-its-mostly-the-defense/

[Class of '66 Old Fart 84,598]

I also put this link in the Fire Tom Cream thread.  Dauster mirrors everything we see as wrong with this team.

http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/01/05/what-has-gone-wrong-with-indiana/

[Ryno6284 2,644]

I'm almost 37 years old.  I was 7 when we last one a national championship.  I remember watching that game with my dad and thinking it was all over until Keith Smart hit "The Shot"!  I have been a die hard fan ever since.  Anybody who is my age or older was spoiled watching RMK teach this sport to young men playing for Indiana!  He demanded and got ,for the most part, everything and then some out of all his players.  His teams made the game look  easy.  Basic, fundamental basketball.  Knowing angles, moving without the ball, setting solid screens, playing defense with your feet, and that the ball moves faster when you pass it and aren't dribbling it.  Unfortunately, this is a huge thing that has been missing from IU basketball for many years now.  I know the times have changed, but the game hasn't.  Crean seems to be trying to reinvent the wheel and that kills me.  I think we all knew that Mike Davis' time was going to be limited at the helm and I've had the same feeling towards Crean now for a couple of years.  I just want someone to lead this team with basic fundamental basketball.  Don't try to out think everybody else, just get your guys to do the basics better than all the other teams that you play.

[Ryno6284 2,644]

Oh, and another thing.  With RMK, if we would've had a loss like we did to Nebraska, you better be wagering your house on the next game we played, because we were gonna kick whose ever ass was next on the schedule!  At least it seemed that way to me.  Hell,I'm old and have slept since then!

[theriverpilot 5,593]

Well crap, I'm 46. You guys are making me feel old. I remember watching a few Isiah Thomas games in the early 80s as an 11-12 year old but really became die-hard when Alford came on the scene.

What I miss was IU then was the Butler and Wisky of now. We were the team that would out-hustle and out-work you. The team that had the high basketball IQ and that would slow down the more athletic teams. A lot of Crean's teams have been fun to watch, but I miss the basketball IQ of the Knight teams.


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[Class of '66 Old Fart 84,598]

4 minutes ago, theriverpilot said:

Well crap, I'm 46. You guys are making me feel old.

How do you think I feel?  At 46, you're barely potty trained!  

[theriverpilot 5,593]

How do you think I feel?  At 46, you're barely potty trained!  

Lol! I appreciate you, 66!


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[coonhounds 8,897]

I love this post as I am 37 and did start watching iu and loving them at a very young age when ube blab lol hope I spelled that right played for them. I remember watching the 87 champ game and countless other classics along the years. I sadly lived my life around iu basketball and have for Years. I could never imagined me ever getting to where I am now almost not caring if iu wins Saturday or again for crean. I don't like this style of basketball but would never root against iu or wish them to lose but these players and this coach are far from iu of past and it should be fixed not accepted

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[The Ola Depot 1,213]

I will say, you guys say you want players that are "Hoosiers" and play as a team and not individuals... but then freak out whenever we recruit one of those players. Or if someone who I feel fits that category, like McRoberts, comes into the game for an extended time, everyone freaks out. Hulls, Elston, VJ3 all came to Indiana because at the time we were not good. They got plenty of playing time though and time to develop. If we want to be any good we can't let those players develop because they are too much of a liability in their first couple years.

[HoosierAloha 30,067]

I will say, you guys say you want players that are "Hoosiers" and play as a team and not individuals... but then freak out whenever we recruit one of those players. Or if someone who I feel fits that category, like McRoberts, comes into the game for an extended time, everyone freaks out. Hulls, Elston, VJ3 all came to Indiana because at the time we were not good. They got plenty of playing time though and time to develop. If we want to be any good we can't let those players develop because they are too much of a liability in their first couple years.

I thought McRoberts played pretty good defense. The main complaint I had was having McSwain and McRoberts in together at crunch time.

[The Ola Depot 1,213]

I thought McRoberts played pretty good defense. The main complaint I had was having McSwain and McRoberts in together at crunch time.

Yeah, that's just the major consensus that he gets too much playing time. But when he has played, I've never seen him take a play off or not hustle every minute (everything everyone is asking for) but still complain when he's in. I can definitely see why he plays so much, he's one of the few players who actually tries.