Analysis: Where does Indiana Basketball go from here?

[Tom White 1,435]

Sorry. Duplicate post.

[HoosierCoop 3,889]

O.G. could be our hatchet man.  I would start him and let him go to town.  I am not suggesting that he get in the game and foul out in 5 minutes, but at this point he could be very expendable and make a difference in the blocks.  At least it would stop the bleeding of these uncontested drives and send a message that O.G. will be waiting for you.

 

O.G. could at least slow the drive down and give either TB or TW time to come over and help.

 

Stay golden O.G.!

[IndyHutch 1,718]

Hey, do me a favor guys and check out the Freshman Tracker article that is done by IU student Hailey Hernandez. She's a student in the class I teach at IU and she wanted to contribute and I gave her that little slice of the pie. I think she offers some good analysis, too. But if you could comment on something she has written, perhaps today's Duke Freshman Tracker and engage her in a little conversation that would be great. I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

[Stuhoo 79,781]

I think that you could make Buckley, Martin, or Judson the interim coach for the rest of the season. That would cost the university millions in pre-July firing buyout dollars though.

[IndyHutch 1,718]

[quote name="IndyHutch" post="219678" timestamp="1449125855"]I didn't expect Indiana to beat Duke Wednesday night. But I didn't expect the Hoosiers to roll over and play dead either. Here is my take following a disappointing effort in a 94-74 loss to No. 7 Duke in the ACC/Big Ten Challenge.
I can’t really say I expected Indiana to beat Duke Wednesday night in the ACC/Big Ten Challenge.

The writing was on the wall. Defending national champs. A winning streak of 120 games against non-conference foes. A 6-0 record at home in the ACC/Big Ten Challenge. A No. 7 national ranking against a team that had fallen out of the rankings last week.

No, this one never felt right going in.

At the same time, I didn’t expect this either.

I didn’t expect Indiana to lay down. I didn’t expect the Hoosiers to roll over. I didn’t expect this Measuring Stick game to turn into an outcome that made you feel like the two programs were light years apart.

The big question today is where does Indiana basketball go from here? With the exception of the Notre Dame game, the other four remaining non-conference opponents hardly will be foes to lose sleep over. And so very likely Indiana will head into Big Ten play with a record of 9-4 or maybe 10-3.

But what does it all mean? Maybe, what does it all matter?

The bottom line here is if Indiana doesn’t defend better than it has in the first eight games, this will be a team that will be firmly on the NCAA Tournament bubble at best come mid-March. And that’s if the all the stars were to align just right. The reality is, take away the first 10 minutes Wednesday night, and Indiana was a work in progress at best.

That one was hard to watch. I’ve read all the postings on Social Media in the last few hours after Indiana lost to Duke Wednesday night 94-74 and while people are absolutely losing their minds, it’s hard not to argue with a lot of the sentiment.

This team has talent. A lot of talent. And yet, they simply don’t defend at the rate they need to defend. They don’t even defend at an average rate. You have to be passionate to play defense and it’s just not there. Every opponent Indiana plays, whether it’s Duke or Alcorn State, simply drives the ball to the basket one time after another against Indiana and no one gets in the way.

SOMEBODY GET IN THE WAY. SOMEBODY MAKE A PLAY. SOMEBODY GET OUT ON A 3-POINT SHOOTER. SOMEBODY SHOW SOME PASSION.

You can single out one or two players if you want but this is a team thing. These guys simply do not defend. And the reality is that simple fact makes it in turn very difficult to defend what is Indiana basketball right now.

There is simply no defense for what we are witnessing first hand right now.

But I still come back to where does IU basketball go from here? What is it going to take for this group of individuals to realize that they have to play defense differently than how they are playing it right now?

Maui certainly didn’t serve as the wakeup call that many thought it would.


I think this roster is vastly over rated. All that most of them care about is trying to score for themselves.

Seriously, even without coaching, wouldn't you think if they really were good players they would have enough pride to make a better attempt at defense? At leadership?

Honestly, I had to laugh when I heard some of these guys talk about deciding whether to declare for the draft. Are you kidding me?

 

That's another one of those things that makes you scratch your head. You would think the pride factor would be enough but for whatever reason it isn't. It's just not that important and the consequences don't seem to be bad enough to make anyone willing to make changes.

[IndyHutch 1,718]

O.G. could be our hatchet man.  I would start him and let him go to town.  I am not suggesting that he get in the game and foul out in 5 minutes, but at this point he could be very expendable and make a difference in the blocks.  At least it would stop the bleeding of these uncontested drives and send a message that O.G. will be waiting for you.

 

O.G. could at least slow the drive down and give either TB or TW time to come over and help.

 

Stay golden O.G.!

 

I thought he showed last night in his limited minutes some really good things. You may be on to something there, too.

[mdn82 25,510]

Let's say what you're saying is true and when it comes to coaching things I try to sit on the fence as long as I can. An occupational hazard perhaps. But let's say that was what needed to be done.

My question is when would you do that? You don't do it now, I don't think. You wait until the season is over. But then what you have is a lot of people secretly rooting for IU not to do well so that they can get their ultimate end game at the end of the season. And then what happens when the decision is made and what you wanted to see happen doesn't happen?

I just think right now we need to focus more on what this team can do to fix the way it is playing on defense and not spend so much energy in that other direction. That's just my thought.

Oh I absolutely agree with your sentiment. We have seen that here a lot where people have openly rooted against Crean to the point where they want us to lose to say I told you so. I just think after years of the same patterns it is obvious this is a systematic problem with Crean. He did a great job bringing us back the right way in the beginning. He just isn't the coach to get us over the hump. I do agree though that he will not be fired mid season. I hope for this team to do well, but as has been seen Crean's teams have a tendency to fade. I can hope, but if this leads to say an 8 seed, it's time to pull the trigger.

[barrettballer 513]

Nothing more frustrating at any level of basketball than not being able to defend. Defense is almost purely effort, there is absolutely no excuse to have Ingram standing wide open for two or three 3 pointers, especially with the amount of speed and talent these guys have.

That being said they look like lost puppies out there just wondering around. They look almost confused on what defensive scheme they are in, which falls back on Crean. However, I can't give Crean all the blame for the lack of defense. I don't think I've seen Blackmon guard one person in the last two years. Where's the effort?

Another thing this team seems to lack is leadership. The most vocal person on the floor appears to be a FRESHMAN, I've been super disappointed with Yogi this year. He has to step up and get these guys in line.

[Tom White 1,435]

I think the talent on this team is vastly over rated. This year, last year, whenever it is the same thing.

A collection of guys that mostly care about getting their own number of shots. Guys who couldn't care less about good defensive effort. Guys who can't even spell leadership, let alone show some of it.

Honestly, I had to laugh when I (this past summer) heard some of them talking about their decisions to stay or go to the NBA.

The NBA? Are you kidding me? These guys can't compete in the NCAA, let alone any ideas about competing with pros.

Yeah, a good amount of this mess is coaching, but a good portion of the blame needs to go to the players too.

[GloryDays 5,913]

What I don't get is that I know how hard this group works on defense every practice. It's a priority. But something gets lost in the translation. It kind of goes back to the "confused" thought. These guys just look like something isn't right.

Late in the game Zeisloft,on what was maybe the play you mentioned sagged to the post and left a shooter with a wide open 3.After the made shot he turned both ways looking for teammates then shrugged his shoulders and raised both arms in bewilderment .Absolutely no communication or rotation on defense This and constantly jumping passing lanes for the treasured deflection or steal instead of just staying in front of your man is hard to watch. Is this a result of a coach over thinking instead of just trying to teach basic defensive principles?

 Sure looks like it to me.

[Hovadipo 55,174]

I think that you could make Buckley, Martin, or Judson the interim coach for the rest of the season. That would cost the university millions in pre-July firing buyout dollars though.

*Friends* of the university. More than happy friends, too, if I had a guess. :)

[8bucks 6,352]

Late in the game Zeisloft,on what was maybe the play you mentioned sagged to the post and left a shooter with a wide open 3.After the made shot he turned both ways looking for teammates then shrugged his shoulders and raised both arms in bewilderment .Absolutely no communication or rotation on defense This and constantly jumping passing lanes for the treasured deflection or steal instead of just staying in front of your man is hard to watch. Is this a result of a coach over thinking instead of just trying to teach basic defensive principles?
Sure looks like it to me.

I noticed these things too. We seem to want our guys to always double the opponent. Z's man passed to a guy who had his back to basket 20 feet away and z follows the pass and doubles the guy. The guy simply passed back to Z's man who hits the three. Z should never have left to double anyone.

We also have too many times when our better defenders are trying to turn their man with the ball away from the lane. That works but the overplay here leads to an easy blow by and no one rotates over to cut off the drive. Watch the end of the Wake game. They did this 3 times, against RoJo, down the stretch. Then again against UNLV.

The defensive preparedness is s big part of the problem coupled with others giving poor effort.

[GloryDays 5,913]

agree. No accountability for lack of effort. No passion.

Passion and pride are two major ingredients missing.

After watching the Mich St - UL game and seeing both teams play with grit and determination I wanted to puke watching our game.

[IndyHutch 1,718]

I think the talent on this team is vastly over rated. This year, last year, whenever it is the same thing.

A collection of guys that mostly care about getting their own number of shots. Guys who couldn't care less about good defensive effort. Guys who can't even spell leadership, let alone show some of it.

Honestly, I had to laugh when I (this past summer) heard some of them talking about their decisions to stay or go to the NBA.

The NBA? Are you kidding me? These guys can't compete in the NCAA, let alone any ideas about competing with pros.

Yeah, a good amount of this mess is coaching, but a good portion of the blame needs to go to the players too.

 

There has to be shared blame here. No question about it.

[IndyHutch 1,718]

I noticed these things too. We seem to want our guys to always double the opponent. Z's man passed to a guy who had his back to basket 20 feet away and z follows the pass and doubles the guy. The guy simply passed back to Z's man who hits the three. Z should never have left to double anyone.

We also have too many times when our better defenders are trying to turn their man with the ball away from the lane. That works but the overplay here leads to an easy blow by and no one rotates over to cut off the drive. Watch the end of the Wake game. They did this 3 times, against RoJo, down the stretch. Then again against UNLV.

The defensive preparedness is s big part of the problem coupled with others giving poor effort.

 

Defensive preparedness does no good unless players are complete buying in. These guys, through their actions anyway, don't seem to be there.

[j-glat23 0]

Someone needs to step up and become a leader on the court. AKA Yogi Ferrell. Hes the oldest and knows what it takes to win. He needs to show that passion and pride on defense and dive after 50/50 balls.

In the end this is a team problem not just one person. But this team lacks leadership on defense and for the team to buy into defense someone has to show that they want to play.

[colonel06 1,913]

Nailed it. This team has all the keys to be great. 3 McDonald's all Americans and a bunch of solid players mixed in.

ZERO and I mean ZERO desire to play defense. Either that, or Crean has confused them so much with what he is trying to accomplish on defense that it completely falls through. I have a feeling it's more on Crean than the players effort. They always look lost.

. "Olay!!"

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

Oh I absolutely agree with your sentiment. We have seen that here a lot where people have openly rooted against Crean to the point where they want us to lose to say I told you so. I just think after years of the same patterns it is obvious this is a systematic problem with Crean. He did a great job bringing us back the right way in the beginning. He just isn't the coach to get us over the hump. I do agree though that he will not be fired mid season. I hope for this team to do well, but as has been seen Crean's teams have a tendency to fade. I can hope, but if this leads to say an 8 seed, it's time to pull the trigger.

Totally agree with you about there being people rooting against Crean. But, I think our perspective is shifted a little from being on a board like this interacting with the most passionate of the fans all the time. Especially as mods in charge of keeping things civil.

 

I think either way it doesn't matter. I don't think casual fans will root against the team, they'll just stop caring. Heck, I am very unhappy right now, but I won't root against the team ever. I do care less. I am checking my calendar to see if I should maybe just work my full day instead of rearranging to leave for early games in the future.

 

If we keep him for the rest of the season and the team plays the way they have so far this year? No one needs to root against him. This team will go into a weak conference schedule without any good wins and two bad losses, they'll play the weak schedule and who knows? Probably drop a few away games to bottom dwellers and make our record even worse. The team that has played since November 22nd is at best a bubble team if they can't improve. If they have any of the trademark slump towards the end of the year they aren't going at all.

 

3 burger boys, 1 alternate AA, a host of other talent, 3 team members hoping to play in the NBA. And I'm sitting here honestly feeling like we might miss the tourney again this year.

 

So... if you look at my post history, I have not defended him, but I've argued again and again from a business standpoint, we have to keep Crean until the end of the season. I don't feel like that any more. I think if we have any hope of salvaging the season, we need someone else and we need them soon. Any warm body will do better. Even Dakich. Heck, even Bill Walton.

[Uwe Robb 1,072]

I think that you could make Buckley, Martin, or Judson the interim coach for the rest of the season. That would cost the university millions in pre-July firing buyout dollars though.

I don't think the buyout is an issue at all. If Glass was saying last year that the $12 million wasn't an issue then I don't see how $7.5 would be. Also if you wait until the end of the season to fire him we would still be on the hook for full buyout. Can't go into July with a lame duck coach recruiting kids that probably won't come to play for him.

 

Very good contract on Crean's part, but another reason Glass made a huge mistake. Any drop in buyout should come in March or April of the contract not July.

[8bucks 6,352]

Defensive preparedness does no good unless players are complete buying in. These guys, through their actions anyway, don't seem to be there.

for some yeah that applies but the Z double is just bad coaching. Bad preparation. Z gave great effort on that play but you cannot outrun a pass and he should have never left his man to double

When this becomes the theme every year I just cannot pin much on players. One man identified and recruited these guys to come play here. Season after season one guy has kids that do not defend well. Crean is the guy. If this were a one year deal then fine but with so many different kids the problem is the same.