Athlon Sports: Indiana's Love/Hate relationship with Tom Crean

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

Regardless of wins and losses. Let's keep him around until we have a really really strong candidate lined up to replace him. I don't want to go through this unproven crap again.

[biteoftheapple 4,115]

Regardless of wins and losses. Let's keep him around until we have a really really strong candidate lined up to replace him. I don't want to go through this unproven crap again.

Sorry, this is the kind of thought process that could keep him around. Yes, he is proven. Proven not to be able to build a consistent roster, not to win enough to contend consistently. It seems his recruiting is failing, especially for the 16 class.

[Hovadipo 60,991]

Sorry, this is the kind of thought process that could keep him around. Yes, he is proven. Proven not to be able to build a consistent roster, not to win enough to contend consistently. It seems his recruiting is failing, especially for the 16 class.

And this kind of thought process lands us an even worse coach than we already have.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

Sorry, this is the kind of thought process that could keep him around. Yes, he is proven. Proven not to be able to build a consistent roster, not to win enough to contend consistently. It seems his recruiting is failing, especially for the 16 class.

Well, enjoy another 8 years of mediocrity with whatever flash-in-the-pan who has one Final Four under his belt then.

[biteoftheapple 4,115]

Well, enjoy another 8 years of mediocrity with whatever flash-in-the-pan who has one Final Four under his belt then.

Its what you ask for by keeping the current.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

Its what you ask for by keeping the current.

No. I'm asking for a year to line-up the right guy so that we don't have to redo this entire discussion in 6 months.  I don't want to be a revolving door for coaches where no one wants to come because they don't think they'll keep the job for long.

 

I mean, this is how it works with contract positions. You can't just jump from contract to contract without consequence, you secure a replacement before you push out what you have. Otherwise, you're just scrambling and hoping the next candidate is better. 

[biteoftheapple 4,115]

There are many high caliber coaches who were unknown commodities prior to having success. Coack K, Izzo, Knight, to name just a few.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

There are many high caliber coaches who were unknown commodities prior to having success. Coack K, Izzo, Knight, to name just a few.

And there are far far more garbage coaches who were unknown commodities.

 

Just like every 3-star could be an Oladipo but more likely than not, they aren't.

[biteoftheapple 4,115]

So, we must settle for mediocrity in hopes the true one appears? I, for one would prefer not, given the roster problems within the last few years.

[MikeRoberts 7,873]

I do know that, and I respectfully disagree with you on this one. Wat's right. It's not as simple as wins and losses. I think he's lost the fan base. And I think wins and losses are less important now than getting this program back on track, and he's not the right guy. Everyone knows that, and they have also heard enough of his BS. We'll see, but I think he'll hear plenty from a pretty angry and fed-up fan base. I think the players will hear nothing but support...but Crean? Different animal.

he had lost the fanbase, that started a long time ago and culminated after the 13/14 season where we didn't make the NIT. He lost us a long time ago but nothing has changed, he is still here. If Glass was going to fire him he would have done it after the last two putrid seasons. They were riddled with losses and player misconduct. He has had every chance in the world to fire Crean and hasn't done it. Neither you nor Wat has explained why now vs anytime over the last 2 years.

I'm still not sure what you are saying. Are you saying he is going to be fired regardless after this season? If so, I disagree for all the reasons I stated above. If you are saying he should be fired regardless then I agree but we were already in agreement on that 2 years ago

[Old Friend 8,613]

he had lost the fanbase, that started a long time ago and culminated after the 13/14 season where we didn't make the NIT. He lost us a long time ago but nothing has changed, he is still here. If Glass was going to fire him he would have done it after the last two putrid seasons. They were riddled with losses and player misconduct. He has had every chance in the world to fire Crean and hasn't done it. Neither you nor Wat has explained why now vs anytime over the last 2 years.

I'm still not sure what you are saying. Are you saying he is going to be fired regardless after this season? If so, I disagree for all the reasons I stated above. If you are saying he should be fired regardless then I agree but we were already in agreement on that 2 years ago

I think this will be his last year at Indiana.  One way or another, I think he'll be gone after this season.   If I have to explain "why now," I'm really not sure what to say.  Do you want to talk about the complete disappointment and under-achievement on the floor for another season which preceded all of the recent BS?   Do you want to talk about the increased and continuous number of off-court episodes?  Do you want to talk about the turn-style of a roster?  Do you want to talk about a more manageable buyout?   Do you want to talk about a fan base almost unanimously united against him, meaning everyone now knows he's not the right guy?   Do you want to talk about the indisputable fact that his players don't have any respect for him?  (I don't think that would have come up a year ago)   Do you want to talk about decreased donations?  (That's happening)   Do you want to talk about wealthy, loud alums who've been in Bllomington and in President McRobbie's office? (that's happened, too)   Do you want to talk about an athletic administration that finds Crean boorish, hard to work with, arrogant, and not commanding of respect?  (I know that one for sure...and it wasn't nearly so bad a year ago)   Do you want to talk about $40 million from Cindy Simon, and her wanting her name on a building that commands respect and is not the house for a joke of a program?   A year ago, we could excuse some of the BS.  A bad season and more episodes later, we cannot.  

 

Where do you want me to start?  Lots has changed in a year.  Last year, you could still find many fans - maybe 50% or more - who supported him.  Now?  It's just the hacks on another site convinced they're smarter than everyone else when they've been wrong for 7 years.   Last spring even, we had a front court coming in which could withstand the Big Ten.  We don't, now.   And we won't win 25 games with this group in large part because we have no front court depth.  A year ago, we were one season removed from a #1 ranking and many thought the one-season slide was an anomaly.  People know differently now.   If you think "now" is the same climate as a year ago, I got nothin' to say.   I couldn't disagree with that more.   One way or another, whether the University and Crean agree on a mutual departure like Davis' or he gets fired, or he quits on his own....the fire is much hotter now, and I think the only reason he wasn't let go after last month's episode was to avoid a situation like we had in 2000 when Knight was fired and we "had" to hire Mike Davis, and then couldn't get rid of him.   They don't want that again.

[GnarlyNormEllenberger 1,462]

Athlon has us 4th in the Big Ten, a 5-seed in the NCAA Tournament and losing in the round of 32.

 

I seriously doubt that would be enough winning to make up for all of the bad publicity the program has received the past couple of years. Especially when it is likely you'll face more rebuilding after losing another 5-6 players in the off-season due to graduation and the NBA.

 

When President McRobbie reprimanded the whole athletic department for misbehavior, that spoke volumes. Make no mistake, this is a PR issue for him. Of course, nothing is set in stone. But I have a hard time believing that he'll defend Crean should the high-priced donors demand a change after the season.

 

So, yes. I could see a situation where we would (hypothetically) win 25 games, yet this would still be Crean's last season.

[OliviaPope40 7,395]

Not every team can be the 2012-13 group. 

[MikeRoberts 7,873]

I think this will be his last year at Indiana. One way or another, I think he'll be gone after this season. If I have to explain "why now," I'm really not sure what to say. Do you want to talk about the complete disappointment and under-achievement on the floor for another season which preceded all of the recent BS? Do you want to talk about the increased and continuous number of off-court episodes? Do you want to talk about the turn-style of a roster? Do you want to talk about a more manageable buyout? Do you want to talk about a fan base almost unanimously united against him, meaning everyone now knows he's not the right guy? Do you want to talk about the indisputable fact that his players don't have any respect for him? (I don't think that would have come up a year ago) Do you want to talk about decreased donations? (That's happening) Do you want to talk about wealthy, loud alums who've been in Bllomington and in President McRobbie's office? (that's happened, too) Do you want to talk about an athletic administration that finds Crean boorish, hard to work with, arrogant, and not commanding of respect? (I know that one for sure...and it wasn't nearly so bad a year ago) Do you want to talk about $40 million from Cindy Simon, and her wanting her name on a building that commands respect and is not the house for a joke of a program? A year ago, we could excuse some of the BS. A bad season and more episodes later, we cannot.

Where do you want me to start? Lots has changed in a year. Last year, you could still find many fans - maybe 50% or more - who supported him. Now? It's just the hacks on another site convinced they're smarter than everyone else when they've been wrong for 7 years. Last spring even, we had a front court coming in which could withstand the Big Ten. We don't, now. And we won't win 25 games with this group in large part because we have no front court depth. A year ago, we were one season removed from a #1 ranking and many thought the one-season slide was an anomaly. People know differently now. If you think "now" is the same climate as a year ago, I got nothin' to say. I couldn't disagree with that more. One way or another, whether the University and Crean agree on a mutual departure like Davis' or he gets fired, or he quits on his own....the fire is much hotter now, and I think the only reason he wasn't let go after last month's episode was to avoid a situation like we had in 2000 when Knight was fired and we "had" to hire Mike Davis, and then couldn't get rid of him. They don't want that again.

ok, good to know you and others believe he is gone after this season no matter what. I hope you are right. I unfortunately am in the belief that a fair amount of wins and players staying out of trouble will bring him back for another season. If he fails to win and players get in trouble he will be gone but I think he skids by there on both of those.

My only point of contention with your response is that I am not talking about a year ago, I'm talking about just as recent as this April where we could have fired him and we didn't. While not insignificant, the only things that have changed since then are two players being dismissed. So in my mind, there were already a slew of reasons to do it in April or even the previous April... Maybe these two dismissals were the last straw but they are just par for the course over the past two years

[Class of '66 Old Fart 88,901]

Again, it's not that simple. 25 wins won't save his job…no number will. How does he get to 25? Does he get there with a strong finish that sees his team go down swinging only to lose a hard-fought game to a highly-seeded opponent? Or does his team do its usual late-season swoon and lose 6 of 8, capped off by getting kicked in the mouth by a lower seed? Also, how many players will we lose after the season? 

 

 

Glass may be a fan of Crean, but he doesn't want a repeat of 2013-14. If he has to fire Crean to save his own job, he'll do it. 

 

Glass' loyalty to his coaches is admirable but I have to agree with WatShot that it's how this team performs over the last 1/3 of the season that may ultimately be the deciding factor to Glass.  That, and if there are any more off-court incidents.  Should there be any more, I  think that would also be the final straw.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

ok, good to know you and others believe he is gone after this season no matter what. I hope you are right. I unfortunately am in the belief that a fair amount of wins and players staying out of trouble will bring him back for another season. If he fails to win and players get in trouble he will be gone but I think he skids by there on both of those.

My only point of contention with your response is that I am not talking about a year ago, I'm talking about just as recent as this April where we could have fired him and we didn't. While not insignificant, the only things that have changed since then are two players being dismissed. So in my mind, there were already a slew of reasons to do it in April or even the previous April... Maybe these two dismissals were the last straw but they are just par for the course over the past two years

I can think of around 5 million things that are different than just three months ago.

[Feathery 4,005]

ok, good to know you and others believe he is gone after this season no matter what. I hope you are right. I unfortunately am in the belief that a fair amount of wins and players staying out of trouble will bring him back for another season. If he fails to win and players get in trouble he will be gone but I think he skids by there on both of those.

My only point of contention with your response is that I am not talking about a year ago, I'm talking about just as recent as this April where we could have fired him and we didn't. While not insignificant, the only things that have changed since then are two players being dismissed. So in my mind, there were already a slew of reasons to do it in April or even the previous April... Maybe these two dismissals were the last straw but they are just par for the course over the past two years

What's different now is the buyout has dropped (in July not April). Even with this latest incident with Holt, you can't fire the coach the week school starts be you can't get a top replacement. After the season is when you make a change unless there is some scandal.

[Yogi'sBicep 1,048]

I think this will be his last year at Indiana. One way or another, I think he'll be gone after this season. If I have to explain "why now," I'm really not sure what to say. Do you want to talk about the complete disappointment and under-achievement on the floor for another season which preceded all of the recent BS? Do you want to talk about the increased and continuous number of off-court episodes? Do you want to talk about the turn-style of a roster? Do you want to talk about a more manageable buyout? Do you want to talk about a fan base almost unanimously united against him, meaning everyone now knows he's not the right guy? Do you want to talk about the indisputable fact that his players don't have any respect for him? (I don't think that would have come up a year ago) Do you want to talk about decreased donations? (That's happening) Do you want to talk about wealthy, loud alums who've been in Bllomington and in President McRobbie's office? (that's happened, too) Do you want to talk about an athletic administration that finds Crean boorish, hard to work with, arrogant, and not commanding of respect? (I know that one for sure...and it wasn't nearly so bad a year ago) Do you want to talk about $40 million from Cindy Simon, and her wanting her name on a building that commands respect and is not the house for a joke of a program? A year ago, we could excuse some of the BS. A bad season and more episodes later, we cannot.

Where do you want me to start? Lots has changed in a year. Last year, you could still find many fans - maybe 50% or more - who supported him. Now? It's just the hacks on another site convinced they're smarter than everyone else when they've been wrong for 7 years. Last spring even, we had a front court coming in which could withstand the Big Ten. We don't, now. And we won't win 25 games with this group in large part because we have no front court depth. A year ago, we were one season removed from a #1 ranking and many thought the one-season slide was an anomaly. People know differently now. If you think "now" is the same climate as a year ago, I got nothin' to say. I couldn't disagree with that more. One way or another, whether the University and Crean agree on a mutual departure like Davis' or he gets fired, or he quits on his own....the fire is much hotter now, and I think the only reason he wasn't let go after last month's episode was to avoid a situation like we had in 2000 when Knight was fired and we "had" to hire Mike Davis, and then couldn't get rid of him. They don't want that again.

yeah, what he said!

[Old Friend 8,613]

ok, good to know you and others believe he is gone after this season no matter what. I hope you are right. I unfortunately am in the belief that a fair amount of wins and players staying out of trouble will bring him back for another season. If he fails to win and players get in trouble he will be gone but I think he skids by there on both of those.

My only point of contention with your response is that I am not talking about a year ago, I'm talking about just as recent as this April where we could have fired him and we didn't. While not insignificant, the only things that have changed since then are two players being dismissed. So in my mind, there were already a slew of reasons to do it in April or even the previous April... Maybe these two dismissals were the last straw but they are just par for the course over the past two years

I guess your final line is where I am.   At some point, there's a "last straw."   There's a breaking point.  I think it's been reached, but firing him now makes no sense.   I have NO idea whether I'm right or wrong.   Call it a hunch.  An educated guess.  A gut feeling based on some limited knowledge of things.   Time will obviously tell, and I hope he's gone because I think he's now done more damage than added anything positive.  That was not how I felt a year ago.

[Brass Cannon 25,218]

Not every team can be the 2012-13 group.

No but some teams do seem to make it to the sweet sixteen every year.