Weak Indiana HS Senior Class

[bnkepner 1,509]

This topic comes up every couple of months, it gets old quick. Crean has done a better job of landing in state talent than Mike Davis did. Crean makes it more of a priority. Besides Swanigan (who isn't even from Indiana originally) there was really no one in state to get this year. There are players that we all would've loved to have had here over the years and I think Crean has tried to recruit everyone in state as much as possible. Fact is that there are kids who simply don't dream of playing at IU and thats how its always been. When Knight was here there were plenty of Indiana All Stars and Mr Basketballs who didn't want to come here. Interestingly enough I went to hear Knight speak a year or so ago and he said one of his biggest regrets is not leaving this area to go recruit more out of state kids.

[FindEndNow 198]

This topic comes up every couple of months, it gets old quick. Crean has done a better job of landing in state talent than Mike Davis did. Crean makes it more of a priority. Besides Swanigan (who isn't even from Indiana originally) there was really no one in state to get this year. There are players that we all would've loved to have had here over the years and I think Crean has tried to recruit everyone in state as much as possible. Fact is that there are kids who simply don't dream of playing at IU and thats how its always been. When Knight was here there were plenty of Indiana All Stars and Mr Basketballs who didn't want to come here. Interestingly enough I went to hear Knight speak a year or so ago and he said one of his biggest regrets is not leaving this area to go recruit more out of state kids.

you make a great point. Not every kid wants to come to IU just because they're in Indiana. Especially nowadays. They've grown up with Duke, tOSU, UofL, UK, KU, Zona Texas etc while IU has been quite the outlier there. We would have all loved to get the Plumlee's along with the Zellers. And Gary Harris and blah blah blah. Think about starting Plumlee and Zeller together. That'd be ridiculous. But we can't really do that. It isn't the same where kids stay in one spot throughout HS.

[Stuhoo 84,462]

Ya know who is from Indiana originally?

 

Middle School freakin' Bob - Timothy J. Priller, that's who!!

 

Sooooooo...make up your mind; because if MSB is NOT an Indiana kid because he was born in Indiana but played his HS ball out of state, does that make mega-busts Jurkin and Perea Indiana kids?

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

Jurkin never played high school ball in Indiana, and I don't, nor will I ever, include him as a miss, because of what was  known when he committed.

[KelleyHoosh 2,263]

Playing devils advocate, as long as these kids care once they get here, why do we really care where they are from? State pride? It really doesn't make a difference on the court. Where it does make a difference is the off court resources being spent. I'm pretty fine with the cost we are currently putting out if it leads to kids with a good attitude who bust their butt for the program. The problem lately seems to be finding productive kids who represent the university. If they come from Indiana or Zimbabwe I don't really care as long as they give it 100%, because at the end of the day I'm not footing the bill and I want the best product on the court. If the staff finds that, I don't care where it comes from. (Emphasis on playing devils advocate)

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Hanner was not from Indiana. He's from Columbia and went to high school in North Carolina before transferring to La Lumiere his senior year. If you're going to make an argument, don't use that example. Vonleh quit on his team and "led" Indiana to a 17-15 season during which they missed the post season. He quit. He didn't fight that hard....he did most of what he did on talent alone. He was all about Noah Vonleh and getting to the NBA. He couldn't have cared less about Indiana, and all you need to know was what he did late in that season. You're talking about a McD'd all american who played with an all-american point guard and two experienced seniors. And missed the post season. Vonleh's not a good example, either. (He is a good one for my point, however. You'll never sell me on his ever caring about Indiana University or understanding where he was. He saw Zeller become the 4th pick and decided he'd like to do that, too. And we laugh at Kentucky all the time because that's their M.O.) I said before his freshman year that Hollowell was a lazy player who didn't work
hard. I talked with his coaches, saw him play 10+ times, and he was another kid who did what he did based on physical ability for the most part. He's not the kind of kid Indiana needs any more than Stanford Robinson was.

East coast kids don't understand the culture at Indiana any more than kids from here would understand the culture at St. John's. You and anyone else can spin it however you'd like. But....the fact remains that the formula of recruiting kids from all over the place while not placing the highest priority on local kids who understand the culture and the program has failed for 15+ years. Look at Wisconsin. Look at Michigan State. Look at Ohio State. Check out their rosters. They are the barometer in the Big Ten right now and have been for many years. Tell me what you see. (Or I'll do it for you...80% - 90% or more of the kids on those rosters are from their schools' immediate area, meaning their states or surrounding. Hell, even Arizona is stacked with California kids. I think they have one kid from New Hampshire and another from a JUCO in North Carolina. The rest? Local.) Duke and Kentucky are two examples I can agree with who are generally successful every year and recruit nationally. But...they get the top kids. We're getting Robinson, Jurkin, Priller, April, etc.

There's a formula that's proven to be successful, and I will never understand why people keep defending Crean's trying to out-think the room when you see the results he's produced. It ain't working.

I know Hanner is from Colombia. My point was lazy kids who don't work hard come from all over, which directly refutes your original point that East Coast kids in particular are lazy. Let's take a look one of the top local talents from last year, James Blackmon. He was lazy and selfish on the court and grew up playing ball in Indiana. He's not the norm nor is he an outlier within the state. There are hardworking and lazy kids everywhere.

And you're going to claim Vonleh didn't work hard for the team, despite the factual impact he had on our offense, rebounding and defense based on your subjective opinion of him? That's not a great argument.

I get your point and I agree that we should prioritize top local talent. We missed Harris, McGary, Bluiett, and Lyles of note, but I don't know that that means we aren't making them a priority. We aren't winning at the level that we should be, and that's going to have a greater impact than we can measure. The programs you listed, MSU, OSU, and Arizona don't have to try to recruit local talent. They're winning so everyone wants to be there. Wisconsin has always made it a point to only recruit local, and they have experienced high levels of success of late, but they're best talent, Frank Kaminsky, was from Chicago. If Crean can get this program to a stable 20+ win program, I know that is a big if, Indiana will recruit itself, and you'll see less need to go around the country. For now, we aren't winning. We need the best talent to get us back to winning. Crean doesn't have the time to right the ship with four year 3-star locals like Bo Ryan and Izzo do.

[FindEndNow 198]

I know Hanner is from Colombia. My point was lazy kids who don't work hard come from all over, which directly refutes your original point that East Coast kids in particular are lazy. Let's take a look one of the top local talents from last year, James Blackmon. He was lazy and selfish on the court and grew up playing ball in Indiana. He's not the norm nor is he an outlier within the state. There are hardworking and lazy kids everywhere.

And you're going to claim Vonleh didn't work hard for the team, despite the factual impact he had on our offense, rebounding and defense based on your subjective opinion of him? That's not a great argument.

I get your point and I agree that we should prioritize top local talent. We missed Harris, McGary, Bluiett, and Lyles of note, but I don't know that that means we aren't making them a priority. We aren't winning at the level that we should be, and that's going to have a greater impact than we can measure. The programs you listed, MSU, OSU, and Arizona don't have to try to recruit local talent. They're winning so everyone wants to be there. Wisconsin has always made it a point to only recruit local, and they have experienced high levels of success of late, but they're best talent, Frank Kaminsky, was from Chicago. If Crean can get this program to a stable 20+ win program, I know that is a big if, Indiana will recruit itself, and you'll see less need to go around the country. For now, we aren't winning. We need the best talent to get us back to winning. Crean doesn't have the time to right the ship with four year 3-star locals like Bo Ryan and Izzo do.

There have been several that don't even look at Indiana. McGary had zero interest in Indiana I know. Same with Zak Irvin and Glenn Robinson.

[bnkepner 1,509]

you make a great point. Not every kid wants to come to IU just because they're in Indiana. Especially nowadays. They've grown up with Duke, tOSU, UofL, UK, KU, Zona Texas etc while IU has been quite the outlier there. We would have all loved to get the Plumlee's along with the Zellers. And Gary Harris and blah blah blah. Think about starting Plumlee and Zeller together. That'd be ridiculous. But we can't really do that. It isn't the same where kids stay in one spot throughout HS.

Even kids during Knight's years went other players. Tons of winner of the Mr Basketball went elsewhere.

[JaybobHoosier 12,316]

IU will be fine! 2016 may very well be a down year in recruiting, but IU looks to have a very good 2017 class. Can't win them all, heck, even I didn't commit to IU!!!

[Stuhoo 84,462]

IU will be fine! 2016 may very well be a down year in recruiting, but IU looks to have a very good 2017 class. Can't win them all, heck, even I didn't commit to IU!!!

 

2016 will not be a down year.

[bnkepner 1,509]

IU will be fine! 2016 may very well be a down year in recruiting, but IU looks to have a very good 2017 class. Can't win them all, heck, even I didn't commit to IU!!!

2016 and 2017 are shaping up to be two of the best years in recruiting over the whole nation and for Indiana as well. We are in good shape with a lot of good recruits for 2016 and 2017 looks to be one of the best years from Indiana prospects, who we are also on good terms with

[HoosierAloha 30,090]

IU will be fine! 2016 may very well be a down year in recruiting, but IU looks to have a very good 2017 class. Can't win them all, heck, even I didn't commit to IU!!!

Arguably IU's best miss in decades.

[IUALUMNI2003 24]

McGary had interest, however we wanted him for the 2012 class and he decided to go 2011, I believe, but we were very much in the mix.

[Hovadipo 58,785]

We're not mad about missing on McGary right..?

[HoosierTrav 8,021]

I'm kind of in the middle on this topic, I think you need a mix, though I do think a little more focus could be put on Indiana/midwest. I wish IU had a recruiter on staff that had a specialty in recruiting the Midwest. Similar to Kenny Johnson in the DMV and now Chuck Martin in NY.

But, it's not like Crean hasn't recruited Indiana, he's just a lot of times mis-recruited Indiana. Hulls, Zeller and Yogi were no-brainers, but between Ethrington, Hollowell, Patterson and Devin Davis, we've really gotten several of the wrong guys.

We've not gotten guys like Gary Harris, Zak Irvin, McIntosh or Dunnham. I would take those four over the aforementioned four any day of the week. To GoColts point, who wouldn't take Zak Irvine over Stanford Robinson at this point? We needed a guard and Irvin was right there. Yes, Kenny Johnson's bread and butter was the DMV, where is our guy who's bread and butter is the Midwest?

I'm not saying abandon other parts of the country, I'll take Thomas Bryant every day of the week, but our Midwest recruiting needs to be way better. We're losing guys from this area to Louisville, MSU, OSU, Kentucky, Michigan, etc. and all those schools are beating us on the court too. It's not a coincidence.

I like everything you said except for the list of teams and the statement that "they are beating us on the court."  This is simply not true. Aside from Louisville (1 game) and MSU, we have a 500 or better record against the other teams in the last 4 seasons. Totally agree that we need a strong guy who recruits the midwest. This has typically been the Head Coach though. He is the face of the program to the kids closest to the program. It's a give or take, I suppose. Replace Crean with Stevens and I think we recruit the Midwest well. I think this has everything to do with how well he is respected in state with the high school coaches and Summer ball orgs. In Crean's defense, this is probably the hardest state in the country for a head coach to accomplish this. We have zero patience and the most severe delusions of grandeur of any traditional blueblood. We have been mediocre, at best,and for so long, that generations of Indiana kids look at Indiana similarly to how Indiana fans perceive mid majors Like Butler. The offer was nice but there are way sexier options. this is the fault of the administration. 

[JaybobHoosier 12,316]

Arguably IU's best miss in decades.

You got that right! ;)

[FindEndNow 198]

McGary had interest, however we wanted him for the 2012 class and he decided to go 2011, I believe, but we were very much in the mix.

He was a freshman along with Yogi.

[TheStillman 991]

McGary had interest, however we wanted him for the 2012 class and he decided to go 2011, I believe, but we were very much in the mix.

 

I think it was the opposite.  We offered for 2011 and he decided to be 2012.  Regardless there was mutual interest.

[GloryDays 6,020]

He was a freshman along with Yogi.

I don't think he was that toked....I mean stoked up at the proposition of playing with Cody.

[BGleas 8,096]

You took that comment more literal than I meant it. I probably should have explained it better. I didn't mean necessarily beating us head-to-head, I meant beating us in terms of consistency, winning coference titles and conference tournament titles and competing for Final Fours, etc.

I like everything you said except for the list of teams and the statement that "they are beating us on the court."  This is simply not true. Aside from Louisville (1 game) and MSU, we have a 500 or better record against the other teams in the last 4 seasons. Totally agree that we need a strong guy who recruits the midwest. This has typically been the Head Coach though. He is the face of the program to the kids closest to the program. It's a give or take, I suppose. Replace Crean with Stevens and I think we recruit the Midwest well. I think this has everything to do with how well he is respected in state with the high school coaches and Summer ball orgs. In Crean's defense, this is probably the hardest state in the country for a head coach to accomplish this. We have zero patience and the most severe delusions of grandeur of any traditional blueblood. We have been mediocre, at best,and for so long, that generations of Indiana kids look at Indiana similarly to how Indiana fans perceive mid majors Like Butler. The offer was nice but there are way sexier options. this is the fault of the administration.