IU vs O$U game thread 12 Noon

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

its not dumbing it down. It's quite the opposite. Most educated fans want BASKETBALL answers to our problems. Not random answers about effort, energy, missed shots, rebound better, shoot better, cut harder, screen better, etc... Now those are simple dumb remarks. We want legit answers for problems we see. We don't get those answers.

I'm sorry you aren't getting the answers you'd like, but the coach doesn't owe the fans any particular answer. Crean is something else; the "coach speak" is actually how he lives. That's the difference. He is that into it.

There isn't always some perfect answer. That's the problem with a lot of fans here and everywhere. Always looking for somewhere to blame, something to point to, something they can latch onto to explain why their favorite team lost. It's stupid. Coaching/running a team doesn't work like that. Overreacting on a game to game basis is dumb. I get that we all love the Hoosiers. It's unbelievable the passion that is there but the fact remains that Crean is our coach, this is our team, and that isn't going to change.

Robert's high school coach noted a few weeks back that Crean's press conferences are as thorough and informative as any he'd ever seen. Just one guy, but also someone who knows Crean extremely well and has actually been on the inside of the current program and programs across the country. Probably a valuable opinion, I don't know.....

[WayneFleekHoosier 49,184]

I have years of direct evidence. You either get results or you don't. This is a message board partly meant to discuss our successes and failures. Crean is not a basketball God. He is our Coach and a very moderately successful one at that. It is OUR right as posters to question and discuss trends and reasons for problems within the program.

I can't tell you how many times something that has been discussed on this board or the previous HSN board comes to fruition in upcoming games. Sometimes being "outside" of having personal connections and "promises" allows a fan or an observer a very clear and maybe more clear observation of a team than someone so intimately connected to relationships.

Perfect example of this.....Troy absolutely should not have started every game last year. Did he? Yes. Fulfilling a promise? Maybe. Either way, every fan I know knew that was a mistake as he was not fundamental enough or prepared for that role. Either way Coach is not always right or even close to it. Any coach for that matter. Calipari admitted his mistakes with last years UK team.

[HoosierTrav 7,970]

Someone tell this to Crean please...

@5starbasketball: Move the ball against the zone. Move players against man to man.

Spot on.

[djsalway 4,161]

Didn't read every post, but to be fair to CTC and the team, we've been pretty good against the zone this year.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

I have years of direct evidence. You either get results or you don't. This is a message board partly meant to discuss our successes and failures. Crean is not a basketball God. He is our Coach and a very moderately successful one at that. It is OUR right as posters to question and discuss trends and reasons for problems within the program.

I can't tell you how many times something that has been discussed on this board or the previous HSN board comes to fruition in upcoming games. Sometimes being "outside" of having personal connections and "promises" allows a fan or an observer a very clear and maybe more clear observation of a team than someone so intimately connected to relationships.

Perfect example of this.....Troy absolutely should not have started every game last year. Did he? Yes. Fulfilling a promise? Maybe. Either way, every fan I know knew that was a mistake as he was not fundamental enough or prepared for that role. Either way Coach is not always right or even close to it. Any coach for that matter. Calipari admitted his mistakes with last years UK team.

I have never indicated Crean has a special basketball mind or is a "god" or anything like that. Do I think he is infinitely more knowledgable than anyone here? Yes. Do I think he is always right or should be given the benefit of the doubt? Hell no. Criticism should just be founded in the real and tangible. Not what some fan thinks he saw. Not saying you specifically. It takes real film study to analyze this level of basketball. Big Ten scouting is unforgiving. You can't just give an immediate reaction during/after a game lambasting a coach and think that all of the answers are available.

 

You really think Crean doesn't admit mistakes? Man, you must put a LOT of weight into post game press conferences.

[johnsoniu 6,780]

BUCK THE _UCKEYES!

 

edit: oops. But the intent stands.

[WayneFleekHoosier 49,184]

If I were paid adequately to do so, I would happily find you plenty of "game film" that makes our offense against the zone look embarrassing and our defensive game film would look more like a comedy of errors.

I would be ignorant to think Crean doesn't see these problems. I'm sure he does, but results speak and the problems aren't getting fixed.

[WayneFleekHoosier 49,184]

Didn't read every post, but to be fair to CTC and the team, we've been pretty good against the zone this year.

which good zone defense did we look good against? Pitt, SMU, Georgetown?

GU was probably our best evidence as we hit the open 3. But our ball movement, probing, flashing has yet to look good against the zone.

[djsalway 4,161]

which good zone defense did we look good against? Pitt, SMU, Georgetown?

GU was probably our best evidence as we hit the open 3. But our ball movement, probing, flashing has yet to look good against the zone.

Dont remember exactly, but we have looked better this year than in the past.

[HoosierTrav 7,970]

I have never indicated Crean has a special basketball mind or is a "god" or anything like that. Do I think he is infinitely more knowledgable than anyone here? Yes. Do I think he is always right or should be given the benefit of the doubt? Hell no. Criticism should just be founded in the real and tangible. Not what some fan thinks he saw. Not saying you specifically. It takes real film study to analyze this level of basketball. Big Ten scouting is unforgiving. You can't just give an immediate reaction during/after a game lambasting a coach and think that all of the answers are available.

 

You really think Crean doesn't admit mistakes? Man, you must put a LOT of weight into post game press conferences.

He rarely admits to his own mistakes. I cant say that he never owns them, but it is VERY rare. It's one of the first things that caused me to jump off of his bandwagon, especially during the 2012-2013 season. That guy blew so many games in the second half that year, it made me sick.  It's not so much putting a ton of weight on post game interviews as much as it is wanting the coach to humble himself and take the blame for things that were his fault. It's incredibly infuriating to know that his mistake cost us in a big way, only to hear him passing the buck onto the players. He loves to blabber on and on about momentum in a game but how many times have you seen him let a 10 point + lead turn into a 5 point deficit without the use of a single timeout? You'll NEVER hear him own up to those mistakes. You hear other coaches shoulder most or all of the blame for things going awry. "I should have had this team in a better position to win this game late." "I should have used a TO at that point." These are things you will hear from some of the top names in the game and in any sport. If you think his knowledge of the game of basketball is "infinitely more knowledgeable" than any fan here, you are misleading yourself. The guy is certainly no fool but there are a ton of extremely knowledgeable fans within our base. The people of within this state learn basketball from a very young age and the unmatched passion only builds that knowledge. If anything he's being exposed more than ever due to the fan base's wealth of basketball knowledge. It doesn't take a savant to know to call a timeout as your lead is slipping away, or to figure out that the zone may not be the best option after the opposing team has scored on 8 of their last 10 possessions against it. Serious question: When is the last time you watched one of our out of bounds plays and came away thoroughly impressed by his infinite wisdom? Again, the guy isn't a moron, but he's operating way below his pay grade. Is that even up for debate? The guy is going to make off with 8 figures when he finally gets run outta town.

[GloryDays 5,994]

I don't always like how IU attacks zone either but to imply that the coach doesn't know what to do? Or is generally incompetent? That's absolutely ridiculous.

 When Crean proves he can beat a simple 2-3 zone people will shut up

Until that happens people are going to criticize and have every right to .

As far as the dumb it down remark, that seems really condescending and uncalled for..

[Basketball4iU 2,006]

Also honest question here?

In the presser, Crean said they had early practice with players putting up "tons" of shots. Then had a weight lifting session. Then more individual practice later.

My question is quite simple about arm fatigue. Should guys be lifting weights during the season/between games/after long practices???

Sounds like a recipe for disaster for shooters in the short term. Maybe ok in the long term but????

Thoughts?

They lift almost everyday...

[KingPG21 6,587]

[quote name="shortspacequickness" post="122842"

No one ever has anything of substance[/quote]

Bull freaking shit. Comments like this are the ones that lack substance

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

He rarely admits to his own mistakes. I cant say that he never owns them, but it is VERY rare. It's one of the first things that caused me to jump off of his bandwagon, especially during the 2012-2013 season. That guy blew so many games in the second half that year, it made me sick.  It's not so much putting a ton of weight on post game interviews as much as it is wanting the coach to humble himself and take the blame for things that were his fault. It's incredibly infuriating to know that his mistake cost us in a big way, only to hear him passing the buck onto the players. He loves to blabber on and on about momentum in a game but how many times have you seen him let a 10 point + lead turn into a 5 point deficit without the use of a single timeout? You'll NEVER hear him own up to those mistakes. You hear other coaches shoulder most or all of the blame for things going awry. "I should have had this team in a better position to win this game late." "I should have used a TO at that point." These are things you will hear from some of the top names in the game and in any sport. If you think his knowledge of the game of basketball is "infinitely more knowledgeable" than any fan here, you are misleading yourself. The guy is certainly no fool but there are a ton of extremely knowledgeable fans within our base. The people of within this state learn basketball from a very young age and the unmatched passion only builds that knowledge. If anything he's being exposed more than ever due to the fan base's wealth of basketball knowledge. It doesn't take a savant to know to call a timeout as your lead is slipping away, or to figure out that the zone may not be the best option after the opposing team has scored on 8 of their last 10 possessions against it. Serious question: When is the last time you watched one of our out of bounds plays and came away thoroughly impressed by his infinite wisdom? Again, the guy isn't a moron, but he's operating way below his pay grade. Is that even up for debate? The guy is going to make off with 8 figures when he finally gets run outta town.

The arrogance in this post is astounding... didn't realize Indiana fans were that intelligent. It's surprising more posters here aren't in the college game. Hell, maybe SC is Frank Martin. I don't know.

 

When was the last time I was impressed with one of our out of bounds plays? Not sure. Maybe when we were leading the nation in scoring ATO. It's funny to me how much some nitpick things. Out of bounds plays? There are a hundred things more important than that. Come on.

 

Bottom line is if the guy had the visual appearance of a Stevens or Alford, he wouldn't get half this crap. But so many look at him as a dork who hyperventilates on the sideline because he isn't the best looking guy around. It's hilarious to me! Grown adults get themselves to think and talk like this!

 

You guys can forget about your daddy's IU coming back. It's over.

[Basketball4iU 2,006]

I have never indicated Crean has a special basketball mind or is a "god" or anything like that. Do I think he is infinitely more knowledgable than anyone here? Yes. Do I think he is always right or should be given the benefit of the doubt? Hell no. Criticism should just be founded in the real and tangible. Not what some fan thinks he saw. Not saying you specifically. It takes real film study to analyze this level of basketball. Big Ten scouting is unforgiving. You can't just give an immediate reaction during/after a game lambasting a coach and think that all of the answers are available.

You really think Crean doesn't admit mistakes? Man, you must put a LOT of weight into post game press conferences.

I have first hand knowledge that you are wrong on many fronts... I think it would benefit you to do a little more research before you start blasting people here

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

 When Crean proves he can beat a simple 2-3 zone people will shut up

Until that happens people are going to criticize and have every right to .

As far as the dumb it down remark, that seems really condescending and uncalled for..

Well you're going to be waiting quite a while considering Crean isn't on the court.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

I have first hand knowledge that you are wrong on many fronts... I think it would benefit you to do a little more research before you start blasting people here

Wash the towels, then report back.

[GloryDays 5,994]

Also honest question here?

In the presser, Crean said they had early practice with players putting up "tons" of shots. Then had a weight lifting session. Then more individual practice later.

My question is quite simple about arm fatigue. Should guys be lifting weights during the season/between games/after long practices???

Sounds like a recipe for disaster for shooters in the short term. Maybe ok in the long term but????

Thoughts?

When I was a kid and lifted There was a major impact on my shooting.

Not that I was ever a great shooter but I couldn't hit S#@t after lifting.

[GloryDays 5,994]

Wash the towels, then report ba

 

Wash the towels, then report back.

X 2

[Basketball4iU 2,006]

Wash the towels, then report back.

Ha I'm probably older than your Mom just sayin... And I am there because I want to not because I have to