Can Indiana be a consistent winner under Coach Crean?

[JSHoosier 20,321]

Thank you.

I believe in Crean. I don't believe he can do what Bob Knight did for Indiana, which is what I suspect everyone actually means when they say "back on top", but he can get us back to being a title contender.

In his six years at Indiana, including his first two years where he started with less than nothing, we've won the B1G, gone to the Sweet Sixteen twice, shocked an undefeated #1 ranked Kentucky, signed 5 McDAA's, developed and coached three lottery picks, and recorded a perfect four year APR score.

I don't care what he did at Marquette. To even compare that program to Indiana and what Crean was able to accomplish there is ridiculous. What he has accomplished here, has me very excited for the future.



Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

Welcome to the real world.  The bar was set by the likes of Branch McCracken and Bob Knight, and it is Crean's responsibility to reach that bar.  If he can't, he's not the guy for the job.  Indiana has everything it needs to do so, all it needs is a coach.

 

EDIT:  That's why he was given a top 10 contract.  He's not paid over 3 million to year for the occasional decent year.  He's paid to have us competing and making deep runs regularly, to go to Final Fours and win championships.  Absolutely that's what's expected of him, it absolutely should be expected.

[Banksyrules 4,853]

[quote name="JSHoosier" post="72155" timestamp="1403885596"]Welcome to the real world. The bar was set by the likes of Branch McCracken and Bob Knight, and it is Crean's responsibility to reach that bar. If he can't, he's not the guy for the job. Indiana has everything it needs to do so, all it needs is a coach.

EDIT: That's why he was given a top 10 contract. He's not paid over 3 million to year for the occasional decent year. He's paid to have us competing and making deep runs regularly, to go to Final Fours and win championships. Absolutely that's what's expected of him, it absolutely should be expected.[/quote]

+ infinity. IU Basketball has a massive following for a reason. I hope he does great things but we have to hold ourselves to high standards. We want championships and that should always be our main objective.




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[JSHoosier 20,321]

+ infinity. IU Basketball has a massive following for a reason. I hope he does great things but we have to hold ourselves to high standards. We want championships and that should always be our main objective.




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Yeah, we should hold ourselves to a high standard.  And before someone says "we haven't won a championship since 1987", so what?  We have to hold ourselves to the standards of the elite if we want to get there.  If we continue to lower standards so that what little bit of success someone might have, like we're seeing with Crean, we will never get there.

 

Set the bar high and expect them to reach it.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

[quote name="JSHoosier" post="72155" timestamp="1403885596"]Welcome to the real world. The bar was set by the likes of Branch McCracken and Bob Knight, and it is Crean's responsibility to reach that bar. If he can't, he's not the guy for the job. Indiana has everything it needs to do so, all it needs is a coach. EDIT: That's why he was given a top 10 contract. He's not paid over 3 million to year for the occasional decent year. He's paid to have us competing and making deep runs regularly, to go to Final Fours and win championships. Absolutely that's what's expected of him, it absolutely should be expected.[/quote] I think it's you who needs to recognize that in the real world, coaches like Knight aren't common. When we hired Crean, the administration believed he was the best option available. He has done a very good job at IU so far, but if fans won't be happy until we hire the next Bob Knight, we are going to be pretty miserable for a long time. Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

[JSHoosier 20,321]

I think it's you who needs to recognize that in the real world, coaches like Knight aren't common. When we hired Crean, the administration believed he was the best option available. He has done a very good job at IU so far, but if fans won't be happy until we hire the next Bob Knight, we are going to be pretty miserable for a long time. Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

And if we don't set the bar to that standard we won't get back.  Other programs replace legendary coaches and continue their success, so can we.  UNC didn't settle with Doherty because the bar set by Dean Smith was too high, they got rid of him and went and got Roy Williams and won more championships.

 

He was hired because they thought he was the best option available to meet the expectations that are in place at IU.  He's paid as a top 10 coach, we should expect the results to be among the best.

[Banksyrules 4,853]

I think it's you who needs to recognize that in the real world, coaches like Knight aren't common. When we hired Crean, the administration believed he was the best option available. He has done a very good job at IU so far, but if fans won't be happy until we hire the next Bob Knight, we are going to be pretty miserable for a long time. Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

I'd be happy with a Sean Miller type of coach. He already has two elite eights under his belt.   

[JSHoosier 20,321]

I'd be happy with a Sean Miller. He already has two elite eights under his belt.   

We wouldn't pull Miller from Arizona, although I'd be ecstatic if we could.

 

Heck, Crean wasn't even the administrations first choice.  Tony Bennett was.  The program is in better shape than it was at the time, and it wouldn't go back to that just because they decided to can a sub par coach.

[Banksyrules 4,853]

We wouldn't pull Miller from Arizona, although I'd be ecstatic if we could.

 

Heck, Crean wasn't even the administrations first choice.  Tony Bennett was.  The program is in better shape than it was at the time, and it wouldn't go back to that just because they decided to can a sub par coach.

Sorry meant a Sean Miller type.  Not be truly elite yet but at least takes his talent farther into tournaments.  

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

[quote name="Banksyrules" post="72161" timestamp="1403888898"]I'd be happy with a Sean Miller. He already has two elite eights under his belt. [/quote] So Elite Eights will satisfy the critics? I think not. Until we hire a coach who will win multiple championships, no one will be good enough and some on here want to keep firing coaches and throwing this program off from the small amount of progress it has made in recent memory.

JS, you mention UNC and Roy Williams, and once again, you've named another uniquely skilled coach. In college basketball right now, THREE coaches have won multiple championships. Coach K, Roy, and Billy Donovan.

So who do you want? Crean took this job at a time when no one good wanted it. Thanks to him, it's finally back to a point where coaches and recruits actually want to come here. It's been shown that one of his major knocks, transfers, is nothing inordinary and should be expected. We have some of the best recruits in the country coming into the program consistently, and he's developing that talent into NBA lottery picks. He has the entire team scoring perfect APR scores. I'm not saying lower your standards, I'm saying you should recognize the success that Crean has brought to this program, and realize he can do more and will.


Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

[Banksyrules 4,853]

[quote name="jurkinonthecourt" post="72165" timestamp="1403890032"]So Elite Eights will satisfy the critics? I think not. Until we hire a coach who will win multiple championships, no one will be good enough and some on here want to keep firing coaches and throwing this program off from the small amount of progress it has made in recent memory.

JS, you mention UNC and Roy Williams, and once again, you've named another uniquely skilled coach. In college basketball right now, THREE coaches have won multiple championships. Coach K, Roy, and Billy Donovan.

So who do you want? Crean took this job at a time when no one good wanted it. Thanks to him, it's finally back to a point where coaches and recruits actually want to come here. It's been shown that one of his major knocks, transfers, is nothing inordinary and should be expected. We have some of the best recruits in the country coming into the program consistently, and he's developing that talent into NBA lottery picks. He has the entire team scoring perfect APR scores. I'm not saying lower your standards, I'm saying you should recognize the success that Crean has brought to this program, and realize he can do more and will.


Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.[/quote]


Please don't put words in my mouth and try to use those words to support your argument. It makes you look bad. I'm saying because he's a young coach and already gotten elite rights that you can tell that Arizona's program is heading towards better results. Their teams have great chemistry and look together were coach Crean's team look like a Jackson pollock painting. The team has no consistency and I have seen some glaring problems in defense since he got here. Again I hope he really does turn it around because he really is a nice guy. But as of right now I expect more for three million a year.



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[HoosierAloha 30,068]

How many coaches, right now in college, are performing at the "standard" some here are claiming we should expect? Of those coaches, who is IU capable of bringing in?

Where is this reality?


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[JSHoosier 20,321]

So Elite Eights will satisfy the critics? I think not. Until we hire a coach who will win multiple championships, no one will be good enough and some on here want to keep firing coaches and throwing this program off from the small amount of progress it has made in recent memory.

JS, you mention UNC and Roy Williams, and once again, you've named another uniquely skilled coach. In college basketball right now, THREE coaches have won multiple championships. Coach K, Roy, and Billy Donovan.

So who do you want? Crean took this job at a time when no one good wanted it. Thanks to him, it's finally back to a point where coaches and recruits actually want to come here. It's been shown that one of his major knocks, transfers, is nothing inordinary and should be expected. We have some of the best recruits in the country coming into the program consistently, and he's developing that talent into NBA lottery picks. He has the entire team scoring perfect APR scores. I'm not saying lower your standards, I'm saying you should recognize the success that Crean has brought to this program, and realize he can do more and will.


Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

No, what I'm saying is that other programs have replaced coaches expecting them to continue the success established by legends and did continue the success because they found the right coach.  If we get the right coach so can we.  You don't settle because they're not easy to find, you try to find them because you expect greatness.  Those coaches are out there.

 

For Crean to do what we expect here, and what we absolutely should expect here, he has to improve as a coach.  Improve drastically.  Right now he is not a good enough coach to do it, because he's not a particularly good coach.  He's good enough for an occasional decent to good year, but he will not sustain it or do it consistently.  If he cannot reach the standards that are expected here, he needs to go because that is what he was hired to do and he is paid very well to do exactly that.

 

He's had some success, but he hasn't been able to sustain it because he has made absolutely no attempt to balance classes and for the second year in a row the roster is poorly constructed.  He wasn't the administrations first choice and from what I've heard he wasn't a choice period until Tom Izzo called the athletic department, and he got it because he's a good salesman that managed to convince them his (at the time) only good year wasn't a fluke.

 

The only home run hire would be Brad Stevens.  There are some choices I'd be okay giving a chance, but they aren't home runs.  Gregg Marshall I'd be willing to give a chance, his Final Four is at least recent and he's averaged 30 wins the last 4 years (your beloved Crean has never had one 30 win year).  Plus there is quick passing with his offense, and they give consistent defensive effort.

[HoosierCoop 3,937]

[JSHoosier 20,321]

How many coaches, right now in college, are performing at the "standard" some here are claiming we should expect? Of those coaches, who is IU capable of bringing in?

Where is this reality?


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We're not going to pull and established coach from someone like AZ or Florida.  We'd have to go with someone that hasn't proven themselves at this level.  However, that does not mean we say "well Crean is good enough, great coaches are hard to find".

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

[quote name="Banksyrules" post="72166" timestamp="1403890860"]Please don't put words in my mouth and try to use those words to support your argument. It makes you look bad. I'm saying because he's a young coach and already gotten elite rights that you can tell that Arizona's program is heading towards better results. Their teams have great chemistry and look together were coach Crean's team look like a Jackson pollock painting. The team has no consistency and I have seen some glaring problems in defense since he got here. Again I hope he really does turn it around because he really is a nice guy. But as of right now I expect more for three million a year.



Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners[/quote] You said he's been to the Elite Eight and my point is that will not satisfy the critics. No need to lecture me. I bet if we all watched Sean Miller and followed his program's every move like we do with Crean we'd all be talking about the glaring wholes in his game plan as well.


Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

[quote name="JSHoosier" post="72170" timestamp="1403891109"]We're not going to pull and established coach from someone like AZ or Florida. We'd have to go with someone that hasn't proven themselves at this level. However, that does not mean we say "well Crean is good enough, great coaches are hard to find".[/quote]

So we can Crean, hire someone who we hope will turnout to be an elite coach?

If it works out, awesome. We just pay him and keep him around.

If it doesn't work out, ummm. We just can him after a few years for the next unproven coach in hopes we find one?

How long does this go on? What kind of image are we projecting to other coaches who might be the next elite coach if we've fired several in a row before them?

Interesting way to look at it.



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[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

[quote name="JSHoosier" post="72168" timestamp="1403891027"]No, what I'm saying is that other programs have replaced coaches expecting them to continue the success established by legends and did continue the success because they found the right coach. If we get the right coach so can we. You don't settle because they're not easy to find, you try to find them because you expect greatness. Those coaches are out there.

For Crean to do what we expect here, and what we absolutely should expect here, he has to improve as a coach. Improve drastically. Right now he is not a good enough coach to do it, because he's not a particularly good coach. He's good enough for an occasional decent to good year, but he will not sustain it or do it consistently. If he cannot reach the standards that are expected here, he needs to go because that is what he was hired to do and he is paid very well to do exactly that.

He's had some success, but he hasn't been able to sustain it because he has made absolutely no attempt to balance classes and for the second year in a row the roster is poorly constructed. He wasn't the administrations first choice and from what I've heard he wasn't a choice period until Tom Izzo called the athletic department, and he got it because he's a good salesman that managed to convince them his (at the time) only good year wasn't a fluke.

The only home run hire would be Brad Stevens. There are some choices I'd be okay giving a chance, but they aren't home runs. Gregg Marshall I'd be willing to give a chance, his Final Four is at least recent and he's averaged 30 wins the last 4 years (your beloved Crean has never had one 30 win year). Plus there is quick passing with his offense, and they give consistent defensive effort.[/quote] You just aren't being realistic by any means. The program couldn't get Tony Bennett because it was in the gutter. This isn't Bob Knight's Indiana anymore. You want Stevens? He's living the dream coaching in the NBA. You keep saying "occasionally decent year". Two Sweet Sixteens is a very strong two year performance that he can build from.

Saying he has made no attempt to balance classes is ludicrous. Do you really believe he doesn't want to have consistency from year to year? You're watching it happen RIGHT NOW. We're returning 4 of our starters including our star PG. It doesn't appear that we will be sending anyone to the draft next year unless TW's stock sky-rockets, which means we should return most of our players again the following year. Progress is being made.


Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

[Hoosier Cowboy 33]

How many coaches, right now in college, are performing at the "standard" some here are claiming we should expect? Of those coaches, who is IU capable of bringing in?

Where is this reality?


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Three in our own conference. Matra, Izzo and Beilein. And Ryan would be four if not for a couple of esrly round flame outs but he is still outperforming Cresn substantially.

[JSHoosier 20,321]

You just aren't being realistic by any means. The program couldn't get Tony Bennett because it was in the gutter. This isn't Bob Knight's Indiana anymore. You want Stevens? He's living the dream coaching in the NBA. You keep saying "occasionally decent year". Two Sweet Sixteens is a very strong two year performance that he can build from.

Saying he has made no attempt to balance classes is ludicrous. Do you really believe he doesn't want to have consistency from year to year? You're watching it happen RIGHT NOW. We're returning 4 of our starters including our star PG. It doesn't appear that we will be sending anyone to the draft next year unless TW's stock sky-rockets, which means we should return most of our players again the following year. Progress is being made.


Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

He's trying to balance classes?  Really?  In 2011 he took 3 freshman, in 2012 he took 5, in 2013 he took 6, in 2014 he has 7 and has said he has 2 more scholarships available.  He's trying to balance classes?  Sure doesn't look like it.  Keeping that up will not maintain success.  We're returning 4 starters, the team is still very young (thanks to having unbalanced classes) and it's still poorly constructed.

[JSHoosier 20,321]

Three in our own conference. Matra, Izzo and Beilein. And Ryan would be four if not for a couple of esrly round flame outs but he is still outperforming Cresn substantially.

Izzo has his team playing their best going in to March practically every year, this is Crean's 6th year and we've seen that once.

 

But we have to be okay with it because good coaches are hard to find.