Coach Cal

[Feaskb01 130]

OK, I want to make this point clear before I post this. I hate 3 schools equally in USC, Kentucky, and Michigan. I think Coach Cal is a sleezeball and I would never want him to coach at IU. But.....

 

How could you argue with his results? Cal has been at Kentucky since the 2009-10 season. In those 5 seasons, he has won the SEC 2x, SEC Tourney 2x, Elite 8 3x, Final Four 2x, 1 National Runner-Up, and 1 National Title. The man knows how to win.

 

This is not a "I wish we had Coach Cal instead of Tom Crean thread". I think Crean is a good coach, he just needs to find an identity for this program ( Kind of like what Kevin Ollie has done at UCONN). 

 

My question is. If Coach Cal came to IU and has the same results he had at Kentucky, would IU fans be complaining about how he cheats and only cares about winning and not the STUDENT athlete? I think it is an interesting question. 

[KelleyHoosh 2,263]

I would complain, because two years later I still want the wins and championships to be on record.

[mr wing 69]

I would definitelly complain because if you are in college especially scholarship players you need to stay and earn your degree so you are not crippled and broke from injuries and nothing to fall back on

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[WayneFleekHoosier 48,386]

I like the Duke model more than the UK model, although you can tell coach K is getting older and hunting championships because he is taking many more one and done types.

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,386]

I actually hate the UK model. With a passion.

[Vauxhall and IU 317]

IU fans would definitely complain. We want to win, but we don't want to win that way. The price of caring so much about tradition is that in certain ways, the game has passed us by. We don't want to win championships if doing so means stacking our team with one-and-dones who don't care about the name on the front of the jersey. Better to lose in the NCAA than to win in the NBA farm system, as far as I'm concerned.

 

These are some of the thoughts I'd planned on posting Monday night after an expected pUKe victory. Thankfully, I didn't have to, but in the general sense, it's still sadly applicable.

[HoosierCoop 3,927]

A better question to ask is do you want results or do you want student-athletes?

 

I think Kentucky answered that question when they signed a deal with the devil.  Win at all costs....

 

Cal had the system already in place at Memphis...Kentucky just paid for it.

 

His system is simple:

 

The recruiting:  Come and play for me and you get:  National exposure, 5-star recruit teammates, Direct pipeline to the NBA/shoe contracts (WWW), and a great NCAA tournament record (this year just reinforced that theory).

 

The reality:  Those that do, move on after one year.  Those that don't make the recruiting "promise", either have to play behind others or transfer out.  To Cal this doesn't matter because he usually has 5 replacements coming right behind with the same promise.

 

This system doesn't support the NCAA or the student athlete theory.

 

Give me tradition, hard work, development, academics, and relationship.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

At the end of the day, we just want our team to win. We could get all noble and speak of how the integrity of college basketball is ruined by the one-and-done system Cal has benefitted from, but no one could complain about the results. I never would want Cal here because I know I would love the results. We love college basketball because it's entertaining not because it's played by athletes who also pursue higher education. Cal's success would be supported by any fan base in the country if he coached at their program, in my opinion.


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[JaybobHoosier 11,843]

[quote name="HoosierCoop" post="58673" timestamp="1397062995"]A better question to ask is do you want results or do you want student-athletes?

I think Kentucky answered that question when they signed a deal with the devil. Win at all costs....

Cal had the system already in place at Memphis...Kentucky just paid for it.

His system is simple:

The recruiting: Come and play for me and you get: National exposure, 5-star recruit teammates, Direct pipeline to the NBA/shoe contracts (WWW), and a great NCAA tournament record (this year just reinforced that theory).

The reality: Those that do, move on after one year. Those that don't make the recruiting "promise", either have to play behind others or transfer out. To Cal this doesn't matter because he usually has 5 replacements coming right behind with the same promise.

This system doesn't support the NCAA or the student athlete theory.

Give me tradition, hard work, development, academics, and relationship.[/quote]

Very well said. I completely agree. Bring in 3 and 4 year players, with a mix on 1 or 2 and done players. I guess I may be old school, but I enjoy having 3 and 4 year players, not 1 and done's with a lot of transfers.

Perfect scenario is having a class like Jordan Hulls' class, and mix in the Noah Vonleh's of the world. Just me.

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[Dalton26 16,892]

[quote name="scottybower" post="58675" timestamp="1397063370"]At the end of the day, we just want our team to win. We could get all noble and speak of how the integrity of college basketball is ruined by the one-and-done system Cal has benefitted from, but no one could complain about the results. I never would want Cal here because I know I would love the results. We love college basketball because it's entertaining not because it's played by athletes who also pursue higher education. Cal's success would be supported by any fan base in the country if he coached at their program, in my opinion.


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I agree 110%.

If Cal was at IU and started rattling off championships I don't think anyone on here would complain. I'd prefer a Duke model like someone said but I don't care what model we go by whether it's one and done or 3-4 yr players as long as we win.


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[KelleyHoosh 2,263]

[quote name="dalton26" post="58677" timestamp="1397064523"]I agree 110%.

If Cal was at IU and started rattling off championships I don't think anyone on here would complain. I'd prefer a Duke model like someone said but I don't care what model we go by whether it's one and done or 3-4 yr players as long as we win.


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Maybe they wouldn't, but they would definitely regret it after he leaves when the program is crippled with sanctions and all championships are vacated. Wouldn't be worth it


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[schoosier 3,480]

Didn't Cal express interest in IU one of the many times it has been open? You don't hear of many of his players getting in trouble just like you don't hear of many graduating. Its an interesting conversation. I would prefer a mix of one and dones to go along with 4 year players, plus I would like our focus to be in locking up the State of Indiana's best talent. Then fill it in with DC, Chicago or midwest players and get back to hanging legitimate banners.

[Feaskb01 130]

Maybe they wouldn't, but they would definitely regret it after he leaves when the program is crippled with sanctions and all championships are vacated. Wouldn't be worth it


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I understand your point about the sanctions and how everything would be vacated. I know that is Cal's track record, but who is to say he is actually cheating at UK? I think he is just taking advantage of the system ( 1 and done). And when you win with a certain system, usually players want to become a part of that 

[JSHoosier 20,231]

I don't care for Cal's system, but it's worked very well.  Fact of the matter is, if the coach could be separated from the slime I would take Cal as IU's coach in a heartbeat.  He's a good coach in his own right, and time and again he's had his young teams playing their best when it matters.

 

If you could separate the coach from the slime we wouldn't have to worry about the wins getting vacated either, sadly the two are a package deal.

[HoosierCoop 3,927]

At the end of the day, we just want our team to win. We could get all noble and speak of how the integrity of college basketball is ruined by the one-and-done system Cal has benefitted from, but no one could complain about the results. I never would want Cal here because I know I would love the results. We love college basketball because it's entertaining not because it's played by athletes who also pursue higher education. Cal's success would be supported by any fan base in the country if he coached at their program, in my opinion.


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I think everyone here likes and wants to win, no question about it.  There is no nobility or integrity how UK does it though.

 

Here is my 80 year old father's fishing analogy of a UK fan.

scenario:  There is a basket of $1 dollar bills sitting on a open counter that says "Free".

You can think of the following:

I am going to take as much as I can as long as I can be rich.

Is this too good to be true?  What is the catch?

Is somebody watching me that will set me up?

Is this money real or fake?

Who put the money there in the first place?

Is it someone else's money?

Will I someday have to pay it all back?

 

Personally, this is how I would feel if I were a UK fan.  (Which thank God I am far from)!

[JSHoosier 20,231]

I understand your point about the sanctions and how everything would be vacated. I know that is Cal's track record, but who is to say he is actually cheating at UK? I think he is just taking advantage of the system ( 1 and done). And when you win with a certain system, usually players want to become a part of that 

He doesn't have to, but that doesn't mean he's not.  Did Sampson have to cheat here?  No, but he did anyway.  He's gotten away twice and with his ego he won't think "I'm at UK, I don't have to cheat anymore and I've gotten away twice.  I have to get lucky each time, they only have to get lucky once" he'll think "I've gotten away twice, they can't catch me I'm too smart for them".  A zebra doesn't change it's stripes.

[KelleyHoosh 2,263]

[quote name="Feaskb01" post="58685" timestamp="1397065404"]I understand your point about the sanctions and how everything would be vacated. I know that is Cal's track record, but who is to say he is actually cheating at UK? I think he is just taking advantage of the system ( 1 and done). And when you win with a certain system, usually players want to become a part of that [/quote]

Eh, I totally see the appeal in why kids would want to join UK. They don't have to cheat to pull these kids. I just would never want him because of his history. I will give him that you don't hear about his players being thugs or getting in legal trouble. I just don't like that his system circumvents the spirit of college athletics, my doubts about his kids ability to assimilate to REAL college culture, and the fact that he has been in trouble.

It's easy to say, but wave a few national titles in my face and I could be singing a different song. I just don't want to even imagine him being here though coz I think we would ultimately end up in a deeper pit than the climb to the top was worth


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[Banksyrules 4,802]

We just haven't found a Coach ( Coach Crean hopefully will adapt), who has all the skills that's needed to be a great Coach.  With Coach Sampscum, Davis, and in my opinion of as right now Coach Crean, I would have to say a lot fault lies with IU's trustees and administration for not being able to find someone who is great or just above average in recruiting balanced classes, development,being well liked and who can carry himself in the X's and O's department. 

 

The state of Indiana has great players to the point if recruited effectively can at least provide us with a fundamentally sound bench.  We just need the right guy to put it all together.  

[JSHoosier 20,231]

We just haven't found a Coach ( Coach Crean hopefully will adapt), who has all the skills that's needed to be a great Coach.  With Coach Sampscum, Davis, and in my opinion of as right now Coach Crean, I would have to say a lot fault lies with IU's trustees and administration for not being able to find someone who is great or just above average in recruiting balanced classes, development,being well liked and who can carry himself in the X's and O's department. 

 

The state of Indiana has great players to the point if recruited effectively can at least provide us with a fundamentally sound bench.  We just need the right guy to put it all together.  

Sampson was actually a good coach, he just couldn't run a program behind the scenes and his phone calls are legal now.

[Banksyrules 4,802]

Sampson was actually a good coach, he just couldn't run a program behind the scenes and his phone calls are legal now.But f

But for obvious reasons not well liked.