IU Fans sabotaging the coach

[KelleyHoosh 2,263]

Even one of the biggest sunshine pumpers/Tom Crean homers on another board has said that if Crean can't get to a Final Four by the time Yogi is a senior he needs to go.  That is two years from now.  The Sweet 16 isn't much, it puts us at Wisconsin's level.  None of us should be happy with that.  He's not one of the highest paid coaches in college hoops for Sweet 16s, he's paid that to take us to greatness.

If we get to two years from now and theres a clear, better option available and we haven't shown significant progress, I'm all for a change. We have to keep the program moving forward. I just wouldn't fire him if he gets us to a sweet 16 next year, but if we don't progress past that the next year, I would be all for a change. 

 

I don't either but I bet it happens a lot more than you might think it does.

We may never know, but I certainly won't lose sleep over it until we do and I certainly won't from this article.

 

I sincerely thank you for posting though, it makes the board interesting. All contributions are awesome! Love the food for thought. 

[JSHoosier 20,618]

Fans need to keep their emotions in check, for sure. You either want IU to win, or you don't. But the internet is a perfect platform for people to say things they'd never say/do in person, so you have fans being very disrespectful. And when you have a program that is as popular as IU Basketball, those "fans" embarrass themselves and the fanbase as a whole.

 

As far as the article goes... I don't know. I guess I have a hard time believing the "sabotaging" fans don't exist at Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, North Carolina, Louisville, Michigan State, etc... so if the players are that worried about themselves or teammates or coaches being heavily scrutinized, big-time college ball probably isn't for them. I really don't see the fans being much different at any of those schools. That doesn't excuse the actions done by some ridiculous "fans," but it simply acknowledges the sad state of the world we are in at the moment.

 

I think the author may have given him more recruiting accolades than maybe Crean deserves, in my opinion. I mean, he's brought in talent, for sure. But we had one point guard last season, i.e. one main ball-handler. That was it. We also had just one guy who could regularly play in the post. That was it. (Yes, I loved Fischer, but Crean wasn't playing him much at all to begin with and I guess I'm a little skeptical believing that he would've earned significantly more minutes as the season progressed.) I mean, we weren't deep at two very important positions.

 

Anyway, recruiting is just part of the game. At least that's what I've always thought. I would think that's why many are upset. But it's just my opinion.

Just because some of us complain doesn't mean we don't want IU to win, or that we don't support the program.  As I've said, my compaints are problems present over multiple years that have cost IU wins and still hasn't improved.

 

Fans shouldn't be tweeting recruits, I'll 100% agree with that.  Probably shouldn't even be tweeting coach even though I can't stand his non stop PR/political speak.  I'd say he's a good recruiter, not great certainly not excellent as this article claims.  Mike Davis being a good recruiter?  I don't think so.  Bob Knight pretty stopped recruiting in the mid to late 90s, coinciding with the so-so results (although when he did recruit he got good players like Guyton and Lewis).  One of those assistants was Mike Davis (and Dan Dakich), so he didn't show particularly good recruiting as an assistant either and certainly not as head coach.

[Hwy 1 2,053]

 

 

We may never know, but I certainly won't lose sleep over it until we do and I certainly won't from this article.

 

I sincerely thank you for posting though, it makes the board interesting. All contributions are awesome! Love the food for thought. 

 

 

I lose a lot of sleep, but it's not over anything on an internet forum. Food for thought though. I do wish some people would stop to think about what they post before spouting off, that's all.

[Hwy 1 2,053]

Just because some of us complain doesn't mean we don't want IU to win, or that we don't support the program.  As I've said, my compaints are problems present over multiple years that have cost IU wins and still hasn't improved.

 

Fans shouldn't be tweeting recruits, I'll 100% agree with that.  Probably shouldn't even be tweeting coach even though I can't stand his non stop PR/political speak.  I'd say he's a good recruiter, not great certainly not excellent as this article claims.  Mike Davis being a good recruiter?  I don't think so.  Bob Knight pretty stopped recruiting in the mid to late 90s, coinciding with the so-so results (although when he did recruit he got good players like Guyton and Lewis).  One of those assistants was Mike Davis (and Dan Dakich), so he didn't show particularly good recruiting as an assistant either and certainly not as head coach.

 

 

I get it JS, you love IU just as much as I do. What I don't get is why do you have to constantly nonstop rant about the same things? Geeze, I'd think even you would get tired of it eventually. I know a bunch of the rest of us have. Hell, I've even agreed with some of them from time to time but you and a few others are like a broken record. We get it already. Do you feel that your communication skills are so poor that you have to say the same things over and over hundreds, maybe even thousands of times to get it across?

[JSHoosier 20,618]

If we get to two years from now and theres a clear, better option available and we haven't shown significant progress, I'm all for a change. We have to keep the program moving forward. I just wouldn't fire him if he gets us to a sweet 16 next year, but if we don't progress past that the next year, I would be all for a change. 

 

We may never know, but I certainly won't lose sleep over it until we do and I certainly won't from this article.

 

I sincerely thank you for posting though, it makes the board interesting. All contributions are awesome! Love the food for thought. 

It depends on how the roster looks but I have a hard time seeing much from next year's team.  People keep comparing Troy to Vic (when we don't know if he has the same work ethic), but they need to remember what Vic looked like as a sophomore.  He was still mostly an athlete, he had no outside shot and his mid range was unreliable with a very shaky handle.  Vic didn't look like a good "basketball player" until he was a junior, and expecting that kind of a jump from Troy just isn't reasonable this summer IMO.  We'll have shooters, but absolutely no post depth and contrary to how some fans seem to feel this offense needs a reliable big just as much as a shooter to keep the defense honest.  Honestly I think next year is likely an early round exit, if they make the tournament at all.  Would I say fire him on the spot?  No, but his seat should absolutely be on fire.

[Feaskb01 130]

What a joke that this writer actually thinks recruits from Indiana are going to schools in bordering states because of the negativity surrounding Crean on the internet. I thought at the beginning of the article this guy said he was NOT a Tom Crean apologist. I absolutely cringe when I see players like Mitch McGary leading MICHIGAN to a Final Four, or Gary Harris just tearing it up in East Lansing, the list can go on and on (Harris at WVU, Smith- Rivera at GTown, GRIII at Mich). I understand that CTC cant pull all of these players, but when there is a top player in Indiana, I expect IU to be in the thick of things right down to the end. 

 

I dont want CTC fired. I think it would put a halt on any sort of momentum this program has, but there is a sense of urgency now. CTC just needs to make sure that each position has at least 1 scholarship player, otherwise we run into the problems we are having now.

[mdn82 25,546]

Recruits do come to these types of places.  As a Mod, I know that for a fact.  I mean hell, we have been fortunate enough to have Yogi's mom posting here for a little while now.  As for the article and sabotage, it has been that way since Knight left.  Everyone is measured up against a top 3 coach of all time.  Everyone is inadequate compared to him.  Outside of Coach K and Billy D, I don't think there is a top 20 coach in the history of this game coaching at the college level now.  So in that respect, I think no matter who we have people will continue to act this way.  Even when we win a title again it will turn into wondering why we don't win 3 titles in less than 15 years.  Knight did it...  It will always come back to that for some.  I honestly don't know another school that has the loyalty to one man that IU has had for Knight.  The way it ended did not allow people closure.  We still have this 15 years after the fact.  Some of it is about Crean, but not all of it. 

[KelleyHoosh 2,263]

It depends on how the roster looks but I have a hard time seeing much from next year's team.  People keep comparing Troy to Vic (when we don't know if he has the same work ethic), but they need to remember what Vic looked like as a sophomore.  He was still mostly an athlete, he had no outside shot and his mid range was unreliable with a very shaky handle.  Vic didn't look like a good "basketball player" until he was a junior, and expecting that kind of a jump from Troy just isn't reasonable this summer IMO.  We'll have shooters, but absolutely no post depth and contrary to how some fans seem to feel this offense needs a reliable big just as much as a shooter to keep the defense honest.  Honestly I think next year is likely an early round exit, if they make the tournament at all.  Would I say fire him on the spot?  No, but his seat should absolutely be on fire.

I only caught the tail end of the season, so I have a lot of catching up to do on the roster. I agree though that its important to get a balanced roster. I'm hoping Crean addresses some of that to the close of this cycle and in the 2015 class. Theres no way Indiana should miss the tournament, little lone the NIT. But no use crying over spilled milk... at this point I'm just behind coach Crean and hoping he gets us where we want to be.

 

No denying his seat should be getting hot and with a similar performance next year be on flaming. Thats not always a bad thing; sometimes pressure is good. 

 

What a joke that this writer actually thinks recruits from Indiana are going to schools in bordering states because of the negativity surrounding Crean on the internet. I thought at the beginning of the article this guy said he was NOT a Tom Crean apologist. I absolutely cringe when I see players like Mitch McGary leading MICHIGAN to a Final Four, or Gary Harris just tearing it up in East Lansing, the list can go on and on (Harris at WVU, Smith- Rivera at GTown, GRIII at Mich). I understand that CTC cant pull all of these players, but when there is a top player in Indiana, I expect IU to be in the thick of things right down to the end. 

 

I dont want CTC fired. I think it would put a halt on any sort of momentum this program has, but there is a sense of urgency now. CTC just needs to make sure that each position has at least 1 scholarship player, otherwise we run into the problems we are having now.

 

Great post. This is pretty much where I'm at

[JSHoosier 20,618]

I get it JS, you love IU just as much as I do. What I don't get is why do you have to constantly nonstop rant about the same things? Geeze, I'd think even you would get tired of it eventually. I know a bunch of the rest of us have. Hell, I've even agreed with some of them from time to time but you and a few others are like a broken record. We get it already. Do you feel that your communication skills are so poor that you have to say the same things over and over hundreds, maybe even thousands of times to get it across?

People saying we aren't supporting the program is just as much of a broken record though.  You don't want to see the criticisms, but I don't want to constantly see "stop complaining, support the program" when the two aren't mutually exclusive.

[Dalton26 16,892]

I don't really agree with the article but I don't disagree either. He makes points, I do think fans tweeting at players can influence their decisions. Should it? Probably not but it does which is why I'll never tweet at a player and you'd be hard pressed to find a bad thing I've ever said about a player. Where I disagree at is every fan base has the same thing going on. I don't think it's undercutting Crean as much as the writer thinks but young kids are very influential. So I'm kind of a wash on it because I think he's both right and wrong. I do wish people would stop tweeting at these kids especially when they don't choose your school. There is absolutely no reason a kid should get a death threat over where he goes to college. It's pathetic. Do I go overboard with Crean? Honestly I probably do but I feel justified in my opinions. Honestly if Crean shows improvement I'll shut my mouth and not make a peep about him. Will it happen? I don't think so but I hope it does. All in all I've tried toning my dislike of Crean down. It's a work in progress. While I think my opinions are valid I get that it's not everyone's flavor of the month. I get tired of all the sunshine pumping but I can't expect you all to tone it down if I'm not willing to do the same. This really has just turned into a complete ramble. Lol As long as people don't tell me I'm not a fan because of my opinions I'm good because I don't tell anyone else they aren't for theirs. Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

[CampHoosier 3,697]

It isn't the message boards that sabotage a program, it's Twitter. Just watch what IU fans tweet after a recruit doesn't choose us. Look at the tweets when they are about to decide. I specifically remember one of Isiah Whithead's friends responding to an angry Hoosier fan's tweet by saying "see, they don't care about you anyway." Whitehead retweeted it. It was an embarrassment. 

[Hwy 1 2,053]

People saying we aren't supporting the program is just as much of a broken record though.  You don't want to see the criticisms, but I don't want to constantly see "stop complaining, support the program" when the two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

 

There isn't anywhere near as much complaining about the complaining as there is the actual complaining. It's not even close. You know that. You and some others are over the top. Back off on it and the complaints about it will stop. I know, tough concept.   

[Woodsonshump 305]

Did this writer discover the Internet yesterday?

 

Every single college program that has fans who actually care has many of those fans who question everything that the coach does. When teams lose, even great teams, fans come out in force to trash the coach and players. Yet, somehow, Indiana is different. Somehow, Indiana fans are sabotaging Crean and preventing him from having success.

 

When do the excuses stop?

When do the repeated calls for something to happen that clearly is not going to happen right now stop?  Listen, nobody on any of these boards will disagree that this season was a disappointment.  We get it.  We also get that you (and others) want to put this coach on the next Malaysian jet out of the country.  At some point, you (and every other person who is not contributing anything to the positive direction of the board discussion), have to get it through your heads that this coach is going nowhere right now.  In a year?  Maybe.  Two years?  Who knows?  The one thing we all know is that it is not happening now.

 

Said it before, and I'll say it again... a healthy dose of moderation will stop a lot of this garbage.  Yeah, feel free to disagree, but quit recoiling in angst when someone takes a position that doesn't match up with yours.  For once, I'd like to see someone who can voice their disappointment, yet make some sort of an attempt to keep encouraging both this COACH, and this TEAM, to be the best they can be.  Stop the snarkiness, stop the petulance, and accept what isn't going to happen and encourage those who are in place right now to do the best job they possibly can.  Enough of the whining and stomping of feet because you and your subgroup aren't getting your way in this matter (like IU's brass really cares, anyhow).  What you fondly like to call "excuses" is actually called an opposing viewpoint.  Calling it something it is not (excuses) shows your inability to accept a viewpoint that differs from your own.

 

Yeah, you might have the "right" to say what you want here (you actually have no rights at all), but it doesn't always make it the intelligent thing to say.

[BlueDevil 8,827]

I'm all for not tweeting players unless it is something positive. Too many times fans let their emotions get the best of them such as wishing wiggins to tear his acl because he didn't pick UK or hoping a player dies because he doesn't pick their school. These kids are fresh out of high school and are probably making their first decision on their own.

[SilverAtlanta 69]

I find this all pretty entertaining, very little to really take seriously. Do recruits have twitter? Do they have Facbook pages? Instagram? and yet a fan forum is somehow going to stop someone from coming to IU? Highly unlikely,

 

What about the performance of the team this past year, think that might have more sway than a cranked up fan calling for Creans head? How about a lack of improvement from December to March, that certainly wouldn't have much to do with a recruit wanting to go to another school? In almost all the recent recruits one underlying theme to why they selected Indiana was the player improvement, based on Victor Olidipo in particular, and his selection as the #2 draft pick in the NBA. Go back to the post announcement interviews, how much improvement do you think they saw this year? Somehow MY opinion on Crean will change the ability for IU to recruit?....Get a grip, we fans opinions simply aren't that important. Quite the reach, and far beyond belief.  

[JSHoosier 20,618]

There isn't anywhere near as much complaining about the complaining as there is the actual complaining. It's not even close. You know that. You and some others are over the top. Back off on it and the complaints about it will stop. I know, tough concept.   

I'd say it's closer than you want to think.  Every time someone posts a complaint without fail someone will complain about the complaint.

[Hwy 1 2,053]

I'd say it's closer than you want to think.  Every time someone posts a complaint without fail someone will complain about the complaint.

 

 

 

 

I think you're very wrong on that but there's a super simple solution for your dilemma.

[KelleyHoosh 2,263]

I have two points to make that may turn pretty long-winded, so please stick with me if youre so inclined...

 

1) With the constant bickering going on the board these days and since a mod has confirmed that recruits do come here, maybe it would be best if there was a section to the site that is "members only" or "invite only" I used to be on a message board for Notre Dame and they had similar constant arguing (I'm not sure if any of you follow ND football, but last year was a disaster). This eventually was addressed by the formation of groups that one member would create then invite like-minded posters. In these groups complaints about the coach, critical observations about players and recruits occurred. But, because they were in private, the people who hate the complaining did not have to see them and those posting the complaints did not have to worry about recruits/their families ever seeing them. 

 

I still think its ridiculous that fans should have to police their own thoughts before posting on a forum for fans (I understand the need to mod and remove ridiculous/trollish posts, but negative posts should be allowed without consequence).

 

The private groups ranged from anything as silly as "The Gentleman's Club" where posters put up pictures of Kate Upton, to University functioning such as ticket sales and marketing schemes. I think it was a good solution, not sure how plausible it is to create as I am not well versed on the tech side of things. Additionally, it may hurt the posting numbers on the main board because people would be more inclined to post where their opinion will be shared. This may turn the main board into more debate, not necessarily a bad thing. The existence of these groups did not change the main board on the Notre Dame site.

 

I think it would be cool to have something similar here, so people can have light-hearted humor, talk about University happenings, maybe one for Indiana students/alumni, etc. Just an idea

 

2) Twitter is a scary, scary tool in recruiting. Honestly, its probably one of the worst things to happen to college compliance departments. People are impossible to control and despite efforts by universities/coaches people will always tweet recruits. Sometimes it will be positive, sometimes it will be negative. It is a secondary violation no matter what and negative tweeting really just casts the entire school in a poor light. I have never, nor will I ever, tweet a recruit. If its something positive, is it really going to make a difference? Maybe it puts a happy thought about your school in the recruit's head for 5 seconds. If its negative, it leaves a bad taste in the kids mouth. 

 

Having followed Notre Dame I can confidently say EVERY fan base has crazy people who will tweet negative things. Some accounts just constantly bombard recruits, which can get annoying and creepy. 

 

At the end of the day, fans should have faith in their coach to relay necessary information to recruits. If you don't have that confidence in your staff, thats a problem.

 

Essentially, IMO twitter does far more harm than good. 

 

Just my .02 

[CampHoosier 3,697]

I find this all pretty entertaining, very little to really take seriously. Do recruits have twitter? Do they have Facbook pages? Instagram? and yet a fan forum is somehow going to stop someone from coming to IU? Highly unlikely,

 

 

Nearly all recruits have all three social media outlets and do see what fans say about them. I doubt they look much in to forums

[Hovadipo 57,138]

I'm going to start complaining about people complaining about people complaining. Just to confuse everyone. And to take every single thread off course too, obviously.


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