Official BTT - Indiana vs Illinois Game Thread

[JSHoosier 19,678]

I'm definitely not saying Tom Crean is better than Knight... I'm just saying the people that view Knight as a SAVIOR and are complaining about Crean don't realize their records are pretty similar over KNight's last years at Indiana.

Eh, partly true maybe but Knight was still more consistent.  The worst he did in conference in that span was tied for 6th, average finish between 3rd and 4th.  We should all hope and pray Crean can do that consistently.

 

You're saying the game passed Knight by, and going only by results.  Well, in that case I would say Crean was never with the game.  I don't necessarily disagree the game passed him by, but I'm also considering that his style of play was going out of style.

 

I'll also point out that in that time Knight spent more time fishing and left a lot of recruiting to his assistants (which alone should disqualify Dakich from the job since he was one of those assistants).  When Knight did recruit he still got some good players like Guyton, he eventually picked up recruiting again and built the 2002 team.

[BlueDevil 8,655]

[quote name="IU Hoosier41" post="47185" timestamp="1394743326"]I'm definitely not saying Tom Crean is better than Knight... I'm just saying the people that view Knight as a SAVIOR and are complaining about Crean don't realize their records are pretty similar over KNight's last years at Indiana.[/quote]

Yeah I kind of agree with this but leaving out the years before this kind of manipulates it a little bit.

[cjvz20 896]

[quote name="IU Hoosier41" post="47175" timestamp="1394742123"]The game passed Knight up... Maybe you don't remember his last 7 seasons at IU...

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How would you feel if Crean did that exact same thing?


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners[/quote]i don't see Crean ever getting us to 7 straight NCAAs. I would love if he could do that but I don't see it in him.


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[mark1981 1,336]

Knight vs. Crean??? Really?

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[mark1981 1,336]

[quote name="CampCrean" post="47114" timestamp="1394735977"]I will say that this team could wipe the floor with the 2011-2012 team which was the last before Cody got here , but that team had three times the heart, hustle, and will to win. When talent like we have misses the tourney and doesn't even win a game in the BTT, that's a HUGE problem. This is a team that should have been 4 or 5 in the BIG with an easy at large bid. Something is very wrong with this program[/quote]

Amen. I expected a slow start but we have plenty of talent and should have been a tournament team.

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[Bk4life 190]

Knight vs Crean...ugh...there was this kind of delusional sycophant during the Davis era....people arguing for Davis and against Knight...Delusional until the end, the Davis supporters were.......because look how good Davis has done since he left IU and no longer had Knight recruits..ahahahahahahahaha

[mdn82 25,473]

Knight vs Crean...ugh...there was this kind of delusional sycophant during the Davis era....people arguing for Davis and against Knight...Delusional until the end, the Davis supporters were.......because look how good Davis has done since he left IU and no longer had Knight recruits..ahahahahahahahaha

 

No politics please.  Beyond that, no problems with what you said.  You guys are good to go at it.  

[TrueHoosier62 1,592]

The difference of course is that by that time, Knight had added three championships to the rafters of Assembly Hall, an Olympic gold medal, a Pan American games Gold medal, 12 Big Ten championships, an NIT championship, and he garnered more wins than anyone else who ever coached the game before. He was every bit the legend. That kind of background will always give one the metaphoric "coin in the pocket" or afford that person the benefit of the doubt, and allow for some mediocrity. The issue isn't whether or not Knight had great teams towards the end. We can all agree they weren't great.

What's more telling though, is that you could take any one of those flawed teams listed above and on their worst day, with Knight's coaching and gamesmanship, kick the ever lovin' snot out of any team Crean has put on the floor since he arrived, (and he would have done it with less talent). Crean is a fair coach, perhaps a good one, but certainly not a great coach. His teams will always fall somewhere between last years and this years in terms of achievement, and that simply isn't good enough at IU.

And for the record, if Crean's teams and his coaching ability had shown me anything comparable to those of Knight and his last seven teams, we'd not be having this conversation.

[bronkonagurski 894]

What's more telling though, is that you could take any one of those flawed teams listed above and on their worst day, with Knight's coaching and gamesmanship, kick the ever lovin' snot out of any team Crean has put on the floor since he arrived, (and he would have done it with less talent).

 

I'd take our 2011-12 and 2012-13 teams against any of the teams Knight fielded during my 5 years in school (1994-1999) and I'd love Crean's chances. 

[schoosier 3,451]

I'd take our 2011-12 and 2012-13 teams against any of the teams Knight fielded during my 5 years in school (1994-1999) and I'd love Crean's chances.

I would take your bet in a heartbeat. It would take Knight less than 5 minutes of game film to figure out how to beat any Crean coached team. Boeheim has never been considered a genius at game planning and look at what he did to us last year. Crean had over a week to prepare for what he knew was coming and still couldn't even make the team look respectable. Knight regularly beat better teams with less (see Jordans 82 North Carolina's team), while Crean regularly gets beat with more (see Penn St. Or Nwester as just 2 examples). Knight was a master of preparing his teams to play just as Crean is a master of not knowing how to play to his teams strengths or against his opponents weaknesses. Getting in a slow down game this year and using zone defenses are two perfect examples and watch any of press conferences where he is just baffled on the basics of getting his teams to play hard or as he wants them to play.

[KingPG21 6,555]

I would take your bet in a heartbeat. It would take Knight less than 5 minutes of game film to figure out how to beat any Crean coached team. Boeheim has never been considered a genius at game planning and look at what he did to us last year. Crean had over a week to prepare for what he knew was coming and still couldn't even make the team look respectable. Knight regularly beat better teams with less (see Jordans 82 North Carolina's team), while Crean regularly gets beat with more (see Penn St. Or Nwester as just 2 examples). Knight was a master of preparing his teams to play just as Crean is a master of not knowing how to play to his teams strengths or against his opponents weaknesses. Getting in a slow down game this year and using zone defenses are two perfect examples and watch any of press conferences where he is just baffled on the basics of getting his teams to play hard or as he wants them to play.

What? I don't get what it is with some IU fans trying to diminish Boehim as a coach

[TrueHoosier62 1,592]

I would take your bet in a heartbeat. It would take Knight less than 5 minutes of game film to figure out how to beat any Crean coached team. Boeheim has never been considered a genius at game planning and look at what he did to us last year. Crean had over a week to prepare for what he knew was coming and still couldn't even make the team look respectable. Knight regularly beat better teams with less (see Jordans 82 North Carolina's team), while Crean regularly gets beat with more (see Penn St. Or Nwester as just 2 examples). Knight was a master of preparing his teams to play just as Crean is a master of not knowing how to play to his teams strengths or against his opponents weaknesses. Getting in a slow down game this year and using zone defenses are two perfect examples and watch any of press conferences where he is just baffled on the basics of getting his teams to play hard or as he wants them to play.

This, +1,000

[TrueHoosier62 1,592]

I'd take our 2011-12 and 2012-13 teams against any of the teams Knight fielded during my 5 years in school (1994-1999) and I'd love Crean's chances. 

If it were possible, I'd bet my 401K AND my farm against that happening. Knight would have Crean and any of his past four teams figured out before tip off, and I'd be richer than rich, sitting court side, smoking a big fatty.

[djsalway 4,161]

Knight vs Crean...ugh...there was this kind of delusional sycophant during the Davis era....people arguing for Davis and against Knight...Delusional until the end, the Davis supporters were.......because look how good Davis has done since he left IU and no longer had Knight recruits..ahahahahahahahaha

 

Actually, Davis has a real shot to be in the tournament this year... Just sayin'

[schoosier 3,451]

What? I don't get what it is with some IU fans trying to diminish Boehim as a coach

He is a Carmello away from 0 championships just like Crean is with Wade and his only final four. Boeheim consistently has done less with more on a yearly basis and I think he and Crean are alike on this. A perfect example would be our last championship. Syracuse could have easily blown us out and should have with the talent they fielded. Instead, they let us hang around long enough that the better coached team won. It took a heck of a shot by Smart and excellent first half play from Alford combined with Smart carrying us in the second half. But the game should not have even been close. 30+ years in Boeheim should have multiple national championships. He has another team that is dominating at every position but I bet they don't win it again. Tell me one other team that has more talent this year? Duke's not even a close second.

[ou812dude 3,326]

Mich/Illinois on right now...I honest to God hope that Michigan loses...

[Hovadipo 53,418]

[quote name="ou812dude" post="47457" timestamp="1394813835"]Mich/Illinois on right now...I honest to God hope that Michigan loses...[/quote]

Oh don't say that....that's cringe-worthy.


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[ou812dude 3,326]

Oh don't say that....that's cringe-worthy.


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lesser of 2 evils I guess...

and of course, Tracy Abrams is scoreless so far...so there's that...

[Dalton26 16,891]

I'd rather Michigan win rather than potentially having to listen to Illinois fans if they were to win the tournament.


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[Hovadipo 53,418]

[quote name="ou812dude" post="47461" timestamp="1394814317"]lesser of 2 evils I guess...
and of course, Tracy Abrams is scoreless so far...so there's that...[/quote]

I'm from Illinois so I root for Michigan in this one 11 times out of 10.


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