Do Not Fire Mike Woodson

[PartyintheVillas 36]

7 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

I'm saying no program who is constantly shuffling coaches every 4-5 seasons over an extended period of time is going to have any kind of sustained success.

Well yeah, but it's not the cause of the problem. The problem is poor hiring, not firing under achieving coaches.

[AH1971 1,446]

1 minute ago, PartyintheVillas said:

Well yeah, but it's not the cause of the problem. The problem is poor hiring, not firing under achieving coaches.

Firing an alum who went to tournaments in 2/3 years after not making one since 2016 is surely the right way to attract a top of the line candidate down the road. I'm sure you knew that though. 

[IUHoosierJoe 1,076]

9 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

I'm saying no program who is constantly shuffling coaches every 4-5 seasons over an extended period of time is going to have any kind of sustained success.

Valid point that makes one wonder why we’d hire a 63 year old coach in the first place given all the recent turnover in coaches we’ve already had.  And no, I’m not suggesting that Woodson be fired, just a question I’ve always had given your valid point.

[PartyintheVillas 36]

4 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Firing an alum who went to tournaments in 2/3 years after not making one since 2016 is surely the right way to attract a top of the line candidate down the road. I'm sure you knew that though. 

Alum has nothing to do with it. Just. win. games. That's all that really matters. Money and opportunity attract top candidates. Coaches are smart enough to see the greatness of Mike Davis, Tom Crean, and Archie Miller post IU. Hiring is the problem. Indiana still has Indiana money and Indiana potential.

Edited August 13 by PartyintheVillas
grammar

[Hoosierfan2017 20,850]

7 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Firing an alum who went to tournaments in 2/3 years after not making one since 2016 is surely the right way to attract a top of the line candidate down the road. I'm sure you knew that though. 

You’re acting like he won a couple tournaments. 

First, saying IU hadn’t made a tournament since 2016 is deceptive. IU would’ve certainly made the tournament in 2020 but for a once in a century pandemic.

Second, no top of the line candidate will be scared by a school having higher expectations than making the tournament 66% of the time. How freaking far has IU fallen than making the tournament 2 out of 3 times and then getting blown out is enough to keep your job safe? 

[PartyintheVillas 36]

I am in wait and see mode for my personal opinion on Mike Woodson as the Indiana basketball coach, and will be cheering my @$$ off for him and the Hoosiers this season. However, he's not proven to be able to contend for conference championships or final fours, which should be the expectation at Indiana with the resources that are available.

[Schreckbagger 620]

Yep, typo on the 5 but still, Archie Miller wasn't building anything and it was obvious. Mike Davis was not building anything and it was obvious. Tom Crean was constantly building, then having to rebuild a bad situation of his own making all while turning off recruits at the end with a Sweet 16 ceiling. So, are you saying that if we kept Mike Davis or Archie Miller longer then Indiana basketball would be better? 

You ask an unanswerable question .....that even you can't answer.

"So, are you saying that if we kept Mike Davis or Archie Miller longer then Indiana basketball would be better?"

Sent from my SM-S906U using BtownBanners mobile app

[PartyintheVillas 36]

Just now, Schreckbagger said:

You ask an unanswerable question .....that even you can't answer.

"So, are you saying that if we kept Mike Davis or Archie Miller longer then Indiana basketball would be better?"

Sent from my SM-S906U using BtownBanners mobile app
 

Mike Davis, Tom Crean, and Archie Miller were all fired by Indiana for losing too much. Mike Davis and Tom Crean were fired by their next schools as well and Archie is well on his way (21-42 in two seasons.) They are not good coaches and did not grow into being good coaches. 

 

[AH1971 1,446]

16 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

You’re acting like he won a couple tournaments. 

First, saying IU hadn’t made a tournament since 2016 is deceptive. IU would’ve certainly made the tournament in 2020 but for a once in a century pandemic.

Second, no top of the line candidate will be scared by a school having higher expectations than making the tournament 66% of the time. How freaking far has IU fallen than making the tournament 2 out of 3 times and then getting blown out is enough to keep your job safe? 

The University of Kentucky, the most storied college basketball program in the history of the sport, just ended up with their 5th or 6th candidate after publicly being turned down multiple times because of an irrational fan base who ran off the last coach. If you think Indiana is somehow going to land a cream of the crop coach after running Woodson off in 3 years then there's zero reason to have this discussion. 

[AH1971 1,446]

17 minutes ago, PartyintheVillas said:

However, he's not proven to be able to contend for conference championships or final fours, which should be the expectation at Indiana with the resources that are available.

He just finished second two years ago despite being down two starters for the majority of the conference slate, sweeping the champs in the process. This years roster is 10x more complete than that.

[PartyintheVillas 36]

Just now, AH1971 said:

He just finished second two years ago despite being down two starters for the majority of the conference slate, sweeping the champs in the process. This years roster is 10x more complete than that.

Indiana was 3 games behind the winner and technically was third and the 3 seed in the conference tournament. It took a little bit of a miracle run in the Big 10 tournament his first season to make the NCAA tournament. He's never gotten past the second round of the NCAA tournament. If he were coaching Iowa, not bad, he's basically Fran McCaffery though. That's not good enough for Indiana. The roster looks better this season for sure with a big influx of pay to play. I'm in wait and see mode, but like I said, I'll be cheering for him and IU. I just won't be holding my breath for a Big 10 championship.

[PartyintheVillas 36]

7 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

The University of Kentucky, the most storied college basketball program in the history of the sport, just ended up with their 5th or 6th candidate after publicly being turned down multiple times because of an irrational fan base who ran off the last coach. If you think Indiana is somehow going to land a cream of the crop coach after running Woodson off in 3 years then there's zero reason to have this discussion. 

It had nothing to do with an irrational fanbase running off a coach. That's just lies. Cal could have stayed, he's the one who started the drama and rumors of going to Arkansas. Barnhardt decided not to play that game. Plus, Cal hasn't been really good for awhile now.

[AH1971 1,446]

2 minutes ago, PartyintheVillas said:

Indiana was 3 games behind the winner and technically was third and the 3 seed in the conference tournament. It took a little bit of a miracle run in the Big 10 tournament his first season to make the NCAA tournament. He's never gotten past the second round of the NCAA tournament. If he were coaching Iowa, not bad, he's basically Fran McCaffery though. That's not good enough for Indiana. The roster looks better this season for sure with a big influx of pay to play. I'm in wait and see mode, but like I said, I'll be cheering for him and IU. I just won't be holding my breath for a Big 10 championship.

They weren't technically 3rd, they finished T-2nd with Northwestern. They had multiple starters out for a majority of the conference slate. 

[PartyintheVillas 36]

Just now, AH1971 said:

They weren't technically 3rd, they finished T-2nd with Northwestern. They had multiple starters out for a majority of the conference slate. 

Then why were they the 3 seed in the B1G tournament?

[AH1971 1,446]

1 minute ago, PartyintheVillas said:

It had nothing to do with an irrational fanbase running off a coach. That's just lies. Cal could have stayed, he's the one who started the drama and rumors of going to Arkansas. Barnhardt decided not to play that game. Plus, Cal hasn't been really good for awhile now.

Cal left because of the irrational fan base who cut off his NIL supply making it impossible in this climate of college basketball. And because of that ended up with Mark Pope. 

[AH1971 1,446]

Just now, PartyintheVillas said:

Then why were they the 3 seed in the B1G tournament?

Because you can't have two #2 seeds, seriously? If two teams are tied for first both are considered champs even though one gets the the 1 seed and the other the 2 seed. Don't be dense. 

[PartyintheVillas 36]

Just now, AH1971 said:

Cal left because of the irrational fan base who cut off his NIL supply making it impossible in this climate of college basketball. And because of that ended up with Mark Pope. 

Cal left because he wasn't winning and Kentucky fans demanding winning games. The hired Mark Pope who is more proven at the collegiate level than Mike Woodson.

[Schreckbagger 620]

Mike Woodson is 66 years old, and an old 66 at that. Bob Knight was 33 years old the summer before his 4th season at IU. Literally half as old.
Even if you ignore the Grand Canyon sized gap between the two coaches’ first three years at IU (1 tournament win and a 31-29 conference record for one of them vs. a final four appearance, 2 conference titles, and a 32-10 conference record for the other), the guy half the age of the other guy is going to get more leash because there’s a chance of him being your coach for the next 30 years. Mike Woodson has one foot through the retirement door at this stage. 

You want to go into the age thing.....really?

Sports Illustrated:
"The average age of a Division I men's basketball head coach in 2023 is 50.

Then there are the outliers.
Scanning the entirety of Division I, we find: 50 coaches who are currently 60 years of age or older"

"20 who clock in at 65 or above"

"and, finally, a select group of six elder statesmen who have seen their 70th birthdays come and go."

Your argument sounds more like age discrimination.



Sent from my SM-S906U using BtownBanners mobile app

[PartyintheVillas 36]

Just now, AH1971 said:

Because you can't have two #2 seeds, seriously? If two teams are tied for first both are considered champs even though one gets the the 1 seed and the other the 2 seed. Don't be dense. 

You can spin the 3 seed as much as you want. You can lob personal insults at me. Still, Indiana finished 3 games behind Purdue in a down big ten and got boat raced by Miami in the second round with an all-American and an nba first rounder.

[AH1971 1,446]

2 minutes ago, PartyintheVillas said:

Cal left because he wasn't winning and Kentucky fans demanding winning games. The hired Mark Pope who is more proven at the collegiate level than Mike Woodson.

Mark Pope has yet to win a game in the NCAA tournament