Transfer Portal w IU Interest

[Stuhoo 89,722]

26 minutes ago, Dillion said:

Wanting Dallas James over him is crazy but Leal is not an “elite” defender. Leal plays his a** off and is smart but very limited. Serious question for the die hard leal truthers….if he were to hit the portal today what type of school or schools do you think would be interested and would he see the floor? I personally believe it would be like a butler type level and I don’t think his numbers would be much better than they were here. If leal wasn’t a hometown kid and Indiana me basketball he wouldn’t even be considered. Post his stats and what he’s done over the years, don’t put a face or name to them, and let’s act like he just committed to IU. This place would be ready to fire devries tomorrow or question why and how he helps.


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Big time P4 schools would be very interested if Leal was willing to start the year as a 10th-12th man IMO.

Two years in a row he played his way into the rotation from that original expectation.

 

[Class of '66 Old Fart 90,952]

Leo Curtis, a 7-foot-1 center, has committed to Nebraska, his agent Johann Mpondo of Cosmo Sports Management tells @On3Recruits

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 12,060]

 

[Hoosierfanyuh 6,999]

2 minutes ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Leo Curtis, a 7-foot-1 center, has committed to Nebraska, his agent Johann Mpondo of Cosmo Sports Management tells @On3Recruits

Interesting…..feels like we could’ve afforded him if we really wanted to. Hope it doesn’t bite us in the butt. Starting to sway my opinion a little bit about somethings but I still remain optimistic. 

[Home Jersey 16,274]

1 minute ago, Certified Sunshine Pumper said:

 

DBPM is kinda a bunk stat 

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 12,060]

2 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

DBPM is kinda a bunk stat 

Do you see many listed that aren't elite/very good?

[RaceToTheTop 31,256]

10 minutes ago, Certified Sunshine Pumper said:

Limited? Offensively? yeah I can see that, but other than shooting a basketball, Leal is a better player in every aspect of the game than Goode, as an example. 

Goode's ability AND willingness to shoot the basketball (and make free throws) makes him a much better player than Leal.

I think you are way overselling Leal.  He's a role player but if he's playing a lot of minutes it's because other players aren't doing their job.  If the version of Myles Rice and Kanaan Carlyle had been the 23-24 versions, Leal shouldn't have seen the court.  The reason he should have been on the court was more due to the failure of others.

[RaceToTheTop 31,256]

6 minutes ago, Certified Sunshine Pumper said:

Do you see many listed that aren't elite/very good?

Defensive metrics are still in their infancy.  It's a vicious circle.....it certainly helps a player's metrics when the other options they you replace them with are bad defenders.

[Home Jersey 16,274]

11 minutes ago, Certified Sunshine Pumper said:

Do you see many listed that aren't elite/very good?

I think to have a meaningful conversation about it, it helps to understand a few things about how it’s calculated. A few points: 

-DBPM is calculated as BPM - OBPM, box score does a much better job tracking offensive impact than defensive. It’s just a different regression on the same set of counting stats.

-It’s a calculation based on average per 100 possessions played, so it’s less accurate on a small sample size like Leal’s 

-Because it’s literally just BPM - OBPM, assists and blocks get weighted differently based on position. That’s why it usually loves big guys like Danny Wolf and Jokic disproportionately.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/bpm2.html this is an interesting read if you have the time. 

I think Leal is a very good defender, not sure about elite or anything, just don’t think DBPM is the KPI to build a strong argument on. Just inherently harder for advanced metrics to capture defensive impact. Eye test is important IMO.

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 12,060]

10 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Goode's ability AND willingness to shoot the basketball (and make free throws) makes him a much better player than Leal.

I think you are way overselling Leal.  He's a role player but if he's playing a lot of minutes it's because other players aren't doing their job.  If the version of Myles Rice and Kanaan Carlyle had been the 23-24 versions, Leal shouldn't have seen the court.  The reason he should have been on the court was more due to the failure of others.

I don't agree with the bold. I'm not really impressed with Goode the player, but I am with his leadership, toughness, and hustle. Other than that.... his only basketball skill is standing at the 3pt line. 

I never mentioned how many mins I wanted/expected him to play. With our roster now.... less than 5 mins. I don't really know what I've oversold. He's a very good basketball player in a lot of areas, especially if he's your 11th guy. 

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 12,060]

5 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

I think to have a meaningful conversation about it, it helps to understand a few things about how it’s calculated. A few points: 

-DBPM is calculated as BPM - OBPM, box score does a much better job tracking offensive impact than defensive. It’s just a different regression on the same set of counting stats.

-It’s a calculation based on average per 100 possessions played, so it’s less accurate on a small sample size like Leal’s 

-Because it’s literally just BPM - OBPM, assists and blocks get weighted differently based on position. That’s why it usually loves big guys like Danny Wolf and Jokic disproportionately.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/bpm2.html this is an interesting read if you have the time. 

I think Leal is a very good defender, not sure about elite or anything, just don’t think DBPM is the KPI to build a strong argument on. 

This post might hold a little weight if he didn't play 24mpg in conference games. If we're actually deciphering the difference between "elite" and "very good" I really don't care. Call him very good. He's won us games with his defense. 

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 12,060]

5 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Defensive metrics are still in their infancy.  It's a vicious circle.....it certainly helps a player's metrics when the other options they you replace them with are bad defenders.

He's just a really good defender. I'm not sure how anyone could argue that. 

[Home Jersey 16,274]

1 minute ago, Certified Sunshine Pumper said:

This post might hold a little weight if he didn't play 24mpg in conference games. If we're actually deciphering the difference between "elite" and "very good" I really don't care. Call him very good. He's won us games with his defense. 

Those metrics show it's not stupid for me to call him elite lol 

Definitely not saying it’s stupid to call him elite, just that the metric is inherently flawed so it’s not the best supporting evidence to make that case. On the whole I tend to agree he’s a good defender and people who can’t give him that much credit likely won’t give him any at all. 

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 12,060]

3 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

Definitely not saying it’s stupid to call him elite, just that the metric is inherently flawed so it’s not the best supporting evidence to make that case. On the whole I tend to agree he’s a good defender and people who can’t give him that much credit likely won’t give him any at all. 

Other than an eye test, how could you support it? Please don't say steals per game or something like that....

I value specific skills at the bottom of the bench or crazy potential/size. Leal does have one of those. This is just discussion, I'm not actually clamoring for him, but as I've stated... absolutely could end up with worse. 

[Home Jersey 16,274]

Just now, Certified Sunshine Pumper said:

Other than an eye test, how could you support it? Please don't say steals per game or something like that....

I value specific skills at the bottom of the bench or crazy potential/size. Leal doesn't have one of those. This is just discussion, I'm not actually clamoring for him, but as I've stated... absolutely could end up with worse. 

Agree we could end up with worse. Don’t see how that’s even a question really… we could add the #500 ranked HS player, theoretically, LoL. I’d much rather Leal than that.

IMO the eye test is really the most valuable way to assess D because looking at things like DBPM/defensive win share in isolation can be misleading. Combined with eye test, I think they probably give a good indication and so people saying he’s not good at defense need to take the eye test again lol.

Maybe Race or USPS or someone better than me at advanced stats can point to the defensive metrics they pay attention to? 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 9,310]

The Leal slander is absolutely wild. Dude busted his @$$ to get in the rotation because Woody was just that stupid. Then became the best defender on the team by light-years and was without a doubt the best defender in the Big Ten(got absolutely screwed by voters looking for names). Even without scoring he was a positive on the floor simply by knowing where to be, by knowing where everyone else was supposed to be, actually caring to play FOR Indiana and being the only player on the roster who knew the concept of swinging the ball. His IQ alone put him ahead of other dudes. If a coach would give him a green light to shoot, he'd probably be a better shooter but he understood his role to be an absolute menace on defense and he didn't care to do the dirty work. That's a dude everyone should want. That's a dude that we would absolutely hate for eternity if he had played for Michigan State or Purdue.

[Dillion 476]

The Leal slander is absolutely wild. Dude busted his @$$ to get in the rotation because Woody was just that stupid. Then became the best defender on the team by light-years and was without a doubt the best defender in the Big Ten(got absolutely screwed by voters looking for names). Even without scoring he was a positive on the floor simply by knowing where to be, by knowing where everyone else was supposed to be, actually caring to play FOR Indiana and being the only player on the roster who knew the concept of swinging the ball. His IQ alone put him ahead of other dudes. If a coach would give him a green light to shoot, he'd probably be a better shooter but he understood his role to be an absolute menace on defense and he didn't care to do the dirty work. That's a dude everyone should want. That's a dude that we would absolutely hate for eternity if he had played for Michigan State or Purdue.

No we wouldn’t because he wouldn’t get off the bench at either of those places. He’s not a great shooter and that has nothing to do with Woodson. His FT percentage tells another story. Just watching the dude go in for layups terrified to shoot makes me cringe. Let alone watching him handle ball pressure by backing them down from 90 feet away. I get it he bleeds red, he plays hard at all time, and is a smart player. No one is doubting that. But he is super limited. I’d gladly welcome him back if he was the 11-13th man. He certainly won’t hurt IU at the end of the bench but if he’s logging big minutes we are in trouble just like last year. I stand by if he hits the portal he isn’t going to be sought after. Maybe a P4 picks him up but it’s nothing more than an end of the bench depth piece in case of emergency.


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[Jet812 571]

29 minutes ago, Certified Sunshine Pumper said:

I don't agree with the bold. I'm not really impressed with Goode the player, but I am with his leadership, toughness, and hustle. Other than that.... his only basketball skill is standing at the 3pt line. 

I never mentioned how many mins I wanted/expected him to play. With our roster now.... less than 5 mins. I don't really know what I've oversold. He's a very good basketball player in a lot of areas, especially if he's your 11th guy. 

What kind of leadership did you see from Goode last year?

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 9,310]

6 minutes ago, Dillion said:

No we wouldn’t because he wouldn’t get off the bench at either of those places. He’s not a great shooter and that has nothing to do with Woodson. His FT percentage tells another story. Just watching the dude go in for layups terrified to shoot makes me cringe. Let alone watching him handle ball pressure by backing them down from 90 feet away. I get it he bleeds red, he plays hard at all time, and is a smart player. No one is doubting that. But he is super limited. I’d gladly welcome him back if he was the 11-13th man. He certainly won’t hurt IU at the end of the bench but if he’s logging big minutes we are in trouble just like last year. I stand by if he hits the portal he isn’t going to be sought after. Maybe a P4 picks him up but it’s nothing more than an end of the bench depth piece in case of emergency.


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Painter played Ethan Morton. Leal would absolutely play. But Painter wouldn't have ruined him and sat him for years like Archie and Woodson.

[ebridges24 2,679]

2 hours ago, skhoosier2 said:

I've had two Beagles that barely bark.  Our first beagle took a year to bark.  The other is more of a whiner.  LOL outliers...shows its possible...

had many beagles as a kid, they all loved to bark