Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[Juwan Moye 233]

6 minutes ago, woodenshoemanHoosierfan said:

I am not a Woodson defender. I called for his firing last season like everyone else in this thread. Having said that, he is currently our coach, and he did "win" the off-season. No one can realistically say he didn't. Having said that, with this roster he needs to finish in top 4 of 5 the newly aligned conference, and at the very least Sweet 16 in NCAA, if not further.

I will support the whole team, including CMW, next year. If CMW doesn't achieve what I said above, I will once again call for his firing.

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Perfect, you answered exactly what I was asking, thanks!

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 8,891]

1 minute ago, woodenshoemanHoosierfan said:

I am not a Woodson defender. I called for his firing last season like everyone else in this thread. Having said that, he is currently our coach, and he did "win" the off-season. No one can realistically say he didn't. Having said that, with this roster he needs to finish in top 4 of 5 the newly aligned conference, and at the very least Sweet 16 in NCAA, if not further.

I will support the whole team, including CMW, next year. If CMW doesn't achieve what I said above, I will once again call for his firing.

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But this is the senseless part of trying to do this in May.... 

If we win the conference-- go let's say 15-5. Win 1 or 2 in the BTT--- get a top 3 seed.... get upset by a #14 seed in R1.... 

I would 1000000% count that as a great year. The one-game **** in March is NUTTY and anything can happen, and IMO, there is a little too much emphasis put on it. Disclaimer-- I fully understand being successful in March is what we're looking for ultimately... 

Granted-- if we go 11-9, 6-11 seed, THEN get upset in R1 of the Ncaas--- then I would say that's more of a failure, than a good season. That would for sure frustrate me. 

[Juwan Moye 233]

46 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:

Don't we have a thread for next seasons expectations? Pretty sure this has been discussed a ton.

FYI - In that thread the ultimate sunshine pumper said we were going to go at least 17-3 in conference. So that is what I will go with :)

Yeah, but my question is about what result should he get fired for? As we’re in the “Fire Mike Woodson” thread it seemed a reasonable question.

Personally I think if this team is sniffing the bubble, or we have multiple 15+ point embarrassing losses, then barring a sweet 16 or better run he should be fired. I’d consider “sniffing the bubble” as anything worse than a 7-seed.

[IUc2016 7,121]

4 minutes ago, Juwan Moye said:

Yeah, but my question is about what result should he get fired for? As we’re in the “Fire Mike Woodson” thread it seemed a reasonable question.

Personally I think if this team is sniffing the bubble, or we have multiple 15+ point embarrassing losses, then barring a sweet 16 or better run he should be fired. I’d consider “sniffing the bubble” as anything worse than a 7-seed.

Okay great, but real question... when is the last time a coach was fired after his team made the NCAA tournament? Not resigned, retired, or left for another job...but fired.

I know it has happened, just can't think of it off the top of my head in recent memory.

[Stuhoo 79,703]

4 minutes ago, Juwan Moye said:

Yeah, but my question is about what result should he get fired for? As we’re in the “Fire Mike Woodson” thread it seemed a reasonable question.

Personally I think if this team is sniffing the bubble, or we have multiple 15+ point embarrassing losses, then barring a sweet 16 or better run he should be fired. I’d consider “sniffing the bubble” as anything worse than a 7-seed.

I’m signing onto that as a very reasonable description of what would precipitate the need to move on from Mike Woodson.

[Juwan Moye 233]

4 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:

Okay great, but real question... when is the last time a coach was fired after his team made the NCAA tournament? Not resigned, retired, or left for another job...but fired.

I know it has happened, just can't think of it off the top of my head in recent memory.

Dan Monson was the first name that came to mind but I’m sure there are others.

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 8,891]

4 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

I’m signing onto that as a very reasonable description of what would precipitate the need to move on from Mike Woodson.

sunshine pumper 

[go iu bb 5,511]

1 hour ago, HoosierHoopster said:

No, he made the tourney the covid year, there was no question but it got cancelled with covid. 

I didn't like this argument then and I don't like it now.

You can't make something that doesn't exist. There wasn't even a selection for that non-existent tournament. 

From what I remember, they were very much a bubble team entering the B1GT. They won a couple of games which people thought were enough to get them into the tournament but it wasn't a sure thing since teams like that get left out quite often.

You can say he would likely have made it but the fact remains that he made exactly 0 NCAA tournaments while at IU.

[IUc2016 7,121]

22 minutes ago, Juwan Moye said:

Dan Monson was the first name that came to mind but I’m sure there are others.

His team wasn't going to the tournament unless they won their conference tournament, which they did.

However, his firing was announced before that tourney run happened. 

[HoosierAloha 30,024]

I tend to agree with the NCAA tourney being a crap shoot. However, there is a massive difference in getting to the sweet 16 and competing and getting to the sweet 16 and looking like you have a **** coach.

The same could be said for winning the regular season title. There is a wide range of possibilities. You could have an extremely favorable schedule with zero wins over teams competing for the championship and still win or could lose the title with an extremely difficult schedule and the winner having the previous scenario.

We’re going into year four where we should have teams regularly competing for the top of the conference and NCAA tourney runs.

[AH1971 1,446]

2 hours ago, Juwan Moye said:

Fair enough, I’ll rephrase:

For the people defending Woodson, what should expectations be for the season? What is good enough where he should be our coach for the following year versus what should get him fired?

 

Compete for a B10 championship and make the 2nd weekend of the tournament. From there, anything can happen. 

Missing the tournament altogether should be an automatic termination. Underachieving throughout the regular season and losing in R1 as an 8-12 seed and I'd probably agree that it's time to move on. 

[Hovadipo 55,089]

8 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Compete for a B10 championship and make the 2nd weekend of the tournament. From there, anything can happen. 

Missing the tournament altogether should be an automatic termination. Underachieving throughout the regular season and losing in R1 as 8-12 seed I'd probably agree that it's time to move on. 

Seems like this is where a lot of "sunshine pumpers" land (or at least something along these lines, tough to come up with concrete expectations in May), yet the division here would lead you to believe otherwise. It's really strange.

[Schreckbagger 620]

No, he made the tourney the covid year, there was no question but it got cancelled with covid. 

So CAM didn't really make the tourney is what you're saying, but just pretend so.

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[Schreckbagger 620]

Can we just rename this to the BTown Bummers thread......

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[go iu bb 5,511]

23 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Compete for a B10 championship and make the 2nd weekend of the tournament. From there, anything can happen. 

Missing the tournament altogether should be an automatic termination. Underachieving throughout the regular season and losing in R1 as an 8-12 seed and I'd probably agree that it's time to move on. 

You'd be okay with a 5-7 seed? You said that this roster dwarfs that of the team which got a 4 seed. Seems like a 4 seed should be the floor of acceptable seeding and he should be shown the door if they can't get at least that.

[HoosierHoopster 6,811]

1 hour ago, go iu bb said:

I didn't like this argument then and I don't like it now.

You can't make something that doesn't exist. There wasn't even a selection for that non-existent tournament. 

From what I remember, they were very much a bubble team entering the B1GT. They won a couple of games which people thought were enough to get them into the tournament but it wasn't a sure thing since teams like that get left out quite often.

You can say he would likely have made it but the fact remains that he made exactly 0 NCAA tournaments while at IU.

No really, there was no question whatsoever. The record and selection was clear, it just didn't happen. 

Honestly it doesn't matter -- I mean who gives a damn? -- CAM was a bad coach, I don't think anyone here would argue otherwise, and that's the context of this point anyway. He made -- or to satisfy the concern here -- clearly would have made the tournament once, but for Covid. The Technical argument he didn't, because of Covid, is lost on me. It doesn't matter either way, he sucked.

[AH1971 1,446]

12 minutes ago, go iu bb said:

You'd be okay with a 5-7 seed? You said that this roster dwarfs that of the team which got a 4 seed. Seems like a 4 seed should be the floor of acceptable seeding and he should be shown the door if they can't get at least that.

I would not Fire Mike Woodson if his team received a 5 seed, no. Would a 6-7 seed mirror some disappointment? Yes most likely, not sure it would warrant an automatic termination though. The question you asked is completely different from the one I answered. 

[Schreckbagger 620]

No really, there was no question whatsoever. The record and selection was clear, it just didn't happen. 
Honestly it doesn't matter -- I mean who gives a damn? -- CAM was a bad coach, I don't think anyone here would argue otherwise, and that's the context of this point anyway. He made -- or to satisfy the concern here -- clearly would have made the tournament once, but for Covid. The Technical argument he didn't, because of Covid, is lost on me. It doesn't matter either way, he sucked.

Does the technical argument stand for C19 recruiting the following year too? Just asking for clarity.

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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,612]

3 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

No, he made the tourney the covid year, there was no question but it got cancelled with covid. 

Selection Sunday never happened. Saying he made the tourney is just guessing.

[IUHoosierJoe 1,086]

11 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Selection Sunday never happened. Saying he made the tourney is just guessing.

Correct.  He also didn’t miss the tournament all four years, as others like to say.  He missed three of them and one was cancelled.