Fire Coach Woodson (or contemplate retirement) Thread

[FightFor6 896]

9 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I think one former basketball manager would love to hire another former basketball manager as the next coach. It's just getting everyone else on board. 

If May is the best candidate we can get, so be it. But I get more than a little nauseous at the thought of that reasoning being a significant contributing factor of a hire. 

[realTomCrean 1,716]

10 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I think one former basketball manager would love to hire another former basketball manager as the next coach. It's just getting everyone else on board. 

I'm in FWIW

[Hoosierfan2017 22,283]

8 minutes ago, HoosierMatty said:

The question is does Dolson already believe Mike isn't the guy? If he keeps him it's only to save money. To be honest with Mike gone I'm concerned who they pick next.

The only coach I see them going after is Dusty May. That's just because he's the low hanging fruit. If he doesn't work out then things get even worse.

This administration never ceases to amaze with their incompetence. For the past 30 years with all the built in advantages we've had they have found ways to screw things up.

You have to try to fail this bad.

 

 

I like the Mick Cronin idea. Midwest guy. All his coaching experience pre-UCLA was in the Midwest. Made the final four and two other sweet 16 appearances at UCLA. Made the NCAA tournament each of his last 9 seasons at Cincinnati. No scandals. The UCLA athletic department is in really rough shape. Only 52 years old  

When I get past the home run hires I’d love for IU to get (and also realize IU won’t get), he seems like what I’d call an IU home run. 

[AZ Hoosier 8,292]

1 hour ago, Chris007 said:

I think it will take Buckner, May, or Zeke to sit him down and say walk away from this for the betterment of IU basketball. Plus give him5-7 million

Woodson might do it for the money... no way he does it for "the betterment of IU basketball". 

 

[AZ Hoosier 8,292]

1 hour ago, realTomCrean said:

It will take a package as described above, but I offer another method of continuity that is important for the program: Woody gets to be in an advisor role. Show up to practice/games at his will, pick his own seat, and bring guest(s) of his choosing. Access to locker room before/after games and a direct line of communication to the new coach. 

Yeah, let's saddle the new guy with that.

[Demo 20,800]

24 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

I've posted this before, multiple times. The 'real' cost of the buyout would not be $12.6 million after this year.

• The buyout regresses considerably immediately after next year; to $4.2 million (50% of the remaining $8.4 m). Woody is well-aware of this.
  • Because of this, if he feels like he is done, he would agree to $6-8 million after this year. Because when the reduced buyout is factored in? He would be coaching next year for effectively nothing if he got an $8 million buyout now.

• That larger buyout figure is based on an extended payment of the total. If Woody were to get the entire amount up front? He would very likely agree to a reduced number. See: Allen, Tom.

• IU will take that reduced number and finance it over many years.
  • Say the final buyout cost is $6.75 million.
  • Now add the $1.25 million it would take to buyout Dusty May, for a total of $8 million,
  • Finance it over 20 years for a principal + interest total of about $12 million.
  • That would equal $600,000 annually for 20 years.
  • Now pay Dusty $3.6 million a year.
• Guess what? We just got Dusty May starting next year for the same annual as we are paying Mike Woodson. 

So back to my previous posts; I am still on record that if this season ends kinda badly, I'd bet it's more likely May is the coach than Woodson come June, 2024.

Appreciate the math. I would guess the conversation with the agent for May/someone else would include something like this: "Ok, Scott, in the last 8 years you've fired a guy the year after he won the conference, was B1G COY and took you to the Sweet Sixteen. Then you fired the next guy after 4 years. Then you forced out the next guy, a Hoosier legend, mind you, after 3 years and 2 tournament appearances. So, your job is officially a meat grinder. Now, let's talk buyout numbers."  You better get the next dude dead right, because I guarantee he's gonna have a Calipari-esque buyout. 

[Hoosierfan2017 22,283]

7 minutes ago, realTomCrean said:

Why? Because Woodson, believe it or not, knows more about Indiana basketball than anyone else collectively on this site and is in the 99% percentile in all of humanity in knowing the inner workings of IUBB. Relations with former players, boosters, knows methods to increase revenue for NIL, and as a program am I alone in wishing a coach would leave in good graces w/ the masses? He has been great at development, recruitment, and sending PF/C to NBA - while he may be lackluster as a coach when considering every aspect, he still knows things other simply do not. Hell, he may have relations with a family/coach/program that can end up offering us a great piece to a future team - that is not out of the realm of possibilities. 

In the military during Change of Command, there is what we call "Left seat, Right Seat" meaning the new Commander/Senior Enlisted personnel will spend a sizable amount of time with their replacement to ensure that everyday workings are covered and there will not be a drop off for the unit. I believe and have seen in CBB that the same approach proves to be beneficial. In fact, if Knight had not been fired, I find it hard to believe IU would've fell off to this extent. 

Lastly, Woodson has taken us to 2x tourneys after a half-decade dry spell. He was an All-American at IU and I believe he also owns a few businesses in Bloomington/Indy. Call it a respect thing, "thank you for your service". I also think it would be best for the program in more ways than one to have him "advise" while maintaining a few benefits as an ode to his contributions to the IU program. You can teach a lot of things, but experience and respect of service are not one of them. 

Now, this is just my 2c so attack at will - but it will fall upon deaf ears. 

I don’t agree with it, but I do appreciate the well-thought out post here. 

[AZ Hoosier 8,292]

1 hour ago, JF87 said:

NBA assistant coaches make anywhere from $40,000 to $75,000 a year.  IU is paying Mike Woodson 4.2 million a year.  I don't blame Woodson for riding that gravy train as long as he can.  When IU gave Woodson the raise last summer, my hope was that the raise was a way for Mike to make more money and retire earlier.  I'm still hoping that's the case. 

Rarely do you get rid of someone by adding more gravy to the train... 

[Stuhoo 83,019]

1 minute ago, Demo said:

Appreciate the math. I would guess the conversation with the agent for May/someone else would include something like this: "Ok, Scott, in the last 8 years you've fired a guy the year after he won the conference, was B1G COY and took you to the Sweet Sixteen. Then you fired the next guy after 4 years. Then you forced out the next guy, a Hoosier legend, mind you, after 3 years and 2 tournament appearances. So, your job is officially a meat grinder. Now, let's talk buyout numbers."  You better get the next dude dead right, because I guarantee he's gonna have a Calipari-esque buyout. 

Yes!

Reasonable annual salary, big built in incentives for achievement, and a hellacious, $15 million buyout for the first six years.

Done.

[raorIU 320]

2 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Yeah, let's saddle the new guy with that.

New guy is still going to have to appease stakeholders in the donor crowd, on the BoT, who are fans of Woodson. This idea goes a long way to ease transition-in AND transition-out.

[realTomCrean 1,716]

3 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Woodson might do it for the money... no way he does it for "the betterment of IU basketball". 

 

The Four Agreements Quotes by Miguel Ruiz (goodreads.com)

Rule #3 Don't Make Assumptions

[Demo 20,800]

2 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Yes!

Reasonable annual salary, big built in incentives for achievement, and a hellacious, $15 million buyout for the first six years.

Done.

I doubt 15 mil even starts the conversation. Closer to 30.

[AZ Hoosier 8,292]

1 hour ago, Chris007 said:

12.6 million I believe

For the love of God, why is the buyout so much? I guess it's just Indiana's way... Woodson wasn't going anywhere (no one wanted him but Buckner)... all the buyout did was guarantee that IU has a crappy, clueless coach for the foreseeable future.

[AZ Hoosier 8,292]

24 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I think one former basketball manager would love to hire another former basketball manager as the next coach. It's just getting everyone else on board. 

Speak in riddles you do.

[Unexpectedflash 1,112]

New coach gets my cycle of hope started once again. Another year of Woodson is going to cause a real loss of interest for a lot of people. Hated those last Archie and crean years since i ended up rooting for losses to get a new coach

[Kentuckysucks 2,678]

6 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Speak in riddles you do.

Dolson and May.

[Demo 20,800]

1 hour ago, Chris007 said:

I think one former basketball manager would love to hire another former basketball manager as the next coach. It's just getting everyone else on board. 

If it’s not Woody next year. and I still think it is, it’s May and then the field. Dolson made clear with Woody’s hire that IU affiliation is a core value for him.

[Hornsby 2,656]

New coach gets my cycle of hope started once again. Another year of Woodson is going to cause a real loss of interest for a lot of people. Hated those last Archie and crean years since i ended up rooting for losses to get a new coach

Yep but she should prepare ourselves for it. They won't fire him they will just claim it was a down year

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[Hornsby 2,656]

For the love of God, why is the buyout so much? I guess it's just Indiana's way... Woodson wasn't going anywhere (no one wanted him but Buckner)... all the buyout did was guarantee that IU has a crappy, clueless coach for the foreseeable future.

It's unreal given he claims this was his dream job and he had no other offers. Offer him half what they did and if he said no move on. Mind boggling.

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[Certified Sunshine Pumper 9,584]

46 minutes ago, Unexpectedflash said:

New coach gets my cycle of hope started once again. Another year of Woodson is going to cause a real loss of interest for a lot of people. Hated those last Archie and crean years since i ended up rooting for losses to get a new coach

Crean's 2nd to last we won the B1G lol