IUBB vs Iowa - Tuesday, 2/28/23 @ 7:00 on ESPN2

[RaceToTheTop 31,736]

16 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Good question. A lot of our bad defensive possessions happen because of that.   
 

I have no idea what they’re doing, but my best guess is they’re running a defense that only calls for situational doubling of the post and our guys make too many mental errors trying to keep that straight. A couple of games ago a guard was posting up TJD and somebody doubled down leading to a kick out 3. I’m quite sure Woodys scheme didn’t call for that and someone just screwed the pooch. 

Iowa did a good job (or IU did a bad job) on switches last game.  Too often we ended up with a guard on a big down low or TJD was stuck up too against a guard.  Looked like the plan was to switch everything.  Didn’t work.

[str8baller 8,055]

16 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

My own simple minded answer is it's a belief by the older crowd that the 3 pt. shot is ineffective.  Sure it's flashy, but it's the old win by the 3, die by the 3 -- in other words luck had a lot to do with it.  (I saw that mentality in my Kid's high school a few years ago with the old coaches, and boy did we take some beatings)  What coaches need to understand is that the game is changing and today's kids can hit the three very effectively.  So no longer can you rely on luck.  You have to figure out a way to guard the 3, maybe at the expense of giving up a 2.  Just MHO.  

You have to make them to be effective. And a lot of college teams just don’t shoot them at a high enough rate to warrant giving them extra attention on defense. Purdue, for example, is bad at shooting 3’s. 
 

I pulled up Torvick because it has the 3p% easily displayed. The top 5 teams are mediocre to bad at 3pt%. We’re ranked 30th overall and 16th in 3%. Only two teams ranked above us shoot 3’s at a better clip than we do.  
 

In other words, making 3 pointers are not driving these teams’ success.   
 

On the other hand, being bad at guarding the 3 leaves you are the mercy of a hot and/or good shooting team. The majority of the teams in front of us guard the 3 well. The ones that don’t typically have high ranking offenses that can keep pace in a track meet.    
 

But in fairness most of the teams in front of us guard the 2 well, too.
 

So really it’s pretty simple: if you want to be good then play good defense and have a good offense!!! 

[Scotty R 3,851]

19 hours ago, normandale97 said:

There is a reason Iowa wasn’t guarding him tonight. 

Players can develop and get better in the off season. He has shown flashes of being a guy who will be a good player.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Scotty R

[HoosierHoopster 9,193]

2 hours ago, HoosierFan1994 said:

 

For the second part IU just has no depth outside of Malik. I feel like I pick on him but Bates just gives them nothing at all and he's supposed to be the 6th man. I'm curious as to what his plus/minus is in the last 8 games. 

I am pretty sure everyone and their mothers know my feelings at this point on JG and Race (post injury), but JG was (and I assume is) in a boot so that's now irrelevant. Banks is showing reasons to get some time, some think more some think not so much, but Race this time had his time dialed back to 14 minutes, and Banks got 14 as well (5 pts 2 steals). Race is just not the same after his injury, I keep trying to say I'm not trying to bash him, as that's not my intent, but he's hurting the team offensively across several games, and one of my scout friends texted me recently asking what the heck he was doing on the floor. He just isn't playing good. We are thin up front now, but I'm glad Banks is showing some development, and I wish JG was healthy.

Bates is a question mark for sure right now, I don't know what's going on but think it's probably mental. He has shown those 'flashes' in games, he has had some big games this season, but he's really fallen off and especially on the road. It was Woodson touting him coming in from the summer, he's seen the talent level, it's there, it's shown at times, but he's just been way off lately. I hope he figures it out, I'm not on the hope-he-enters-the-portal or he-will-enter-the-portal thing, I can't stand reading that kind of crap. We need production from the bench, for sure. 

[str8baller 8,055]

25 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Iowa did a good job (or IU did a bad job) on switches last game.  Too often we ended up with a guard on a big down low or TJD was stuck up too against a guard.  Looked like the plan was to switch everything.  Didn’t work.

I didn’t think having TJD out on the perimeter guarding really hurt us. He gets down and guards.  And yea…they scored on some mismatches down low, but that isn’t what caused the game to get out of hand. 
 

Similarly, switching seems like a fine strategy against a team like iowa. The problem for us is we have a bunch of guys who have mental lapses on the communication part. To wit…a large part of Iowa’s 3’s were wide open. That’s not scheme so much as execution. It’s probably why Woody was so pissed afterwards. 

[Alford Bailey 13,233]

Watching the replay today and following our guys on defense specifically holy cow we were lost. 
 

I will say all the bounces went against us but we still woulda lost.

[Scotty R 3,851]

8 hours ago, normandale97 said:

This happens when you don’t have good basketball guys on the bench and you have recruiters instead. Woody needs to strengthen the staff in the off-season. Rosemond needs to go immediately. 

I think it was said that Rosemond had the Purdue scout so he did well on that game

 

[Golfman25 6,904]

35 minutes ago, str8baller said:

You have to make them to be effective. And a lot of college teams just don’t shoot them at a high enough rate to warrant giving them extra attention on defense. Purdue, for example, is bad at shooting 3’s. 
 

I pulled up Torvick because it has the 3p% easily displayed. The top 5 teams are mediocre to bad at 3pt%. We’re ranked 30th overall and 16th in 3%. Only two teams ranked above us shoot 3’s at a better clip than we do.  
 

In other words, making 3 pointers are not driving these teams’ success.   
 

On the other hand, being bad at guarding the 3 leaves you are the mercy of a hot and/or good shooting team. The majority of the teams in front of us guard the 3 well. The ones that don’t typically have high ranking offenses that can keep pace in a track meet.    
 

But in fairness most of the teams in front of us guard the 2 well, too.
 

So really it’s pretty simple: if you want to be good then play good defense and have a good offense!!! 

Sure, but define "good" at 3 pt shots.  Then you need to compare to 2 point shots.  33% from three equals 50% from 2.  Looking at the stats, most teams run just over 50% from 2.  So anything above 33% from three has a positive expectancy over 2s.  Iowa's number are 34.7% and 52.3% = which is about equal (and no idea what they are the past few games coming off that MSU beatdown). So you better guard both, which we didn't. 

IU's numbers are 37.8 and 53.2, which actually gives us a 1 pt advantage via the 3.  Yet we want to focus on inside with TJD, which is fine if he passes out for the 3.   

Bottom line, the only way you can leave three points open is if their percentage is below the 2 pt shot equivalent, about 33% vs 50%.  In that case you want them to take 3s, not 2s.  But teams are shooting above that these days, and that is my point.  

[str8baller 8,055]

13 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

IU's numbers are 37.8 and 53.2, which actually gives us a 1 pt advantage via the 3.  Yet we want to focus on inside with TJD, which is fine if he passes out for the 3. 

IU gets open 3’s. Which is why we shoot a high percentage. We get open 3’s cause we force the ball into our nearly unstoppable AA post player who is shooting .574 even through constant double teams. He’d be well over 60% if single covered every game. So we’d have to 1) create a bunch more threes—because we really don’t take very many—without the aid of the post-up, and 2) make them at about a 40% clip to justify not throwing the ball into TJD.    
 

I have seen absolutely nothing from us when TJD is off the floor to suggest that we can create enough high quality 3pt looks w/o his post touches to justify basing our offense off of that instead of his post scoring ability. 
 

Nothing happens in a vacuum and the other teams get to try and alter what you do, as well. 

[RaceToTheTop 31,736]

1 hour ago, Golfman25 said:

Sure, but define "good" at 3 pt shots.  Then you need to compare to 2 point shots.  33% from three equals 50% from 2.  Looking at the stats, most teams run just over 50% from 2.  So anything above 33% from three has a positive expectancy over 2s.  Iowa's number are 34.7% and 52.3% = which is about equal (and no idea what they are the past few games coming off that MSU beatdown). So you better guard both, which we didn't. 

IU's numbers are 37.8 and 53.2, which actually gives us a 1 pt advantage via the 3.  Yet we want to focus on inside with TJD, which is fine if he passes out for the 3.   

Bottom line, the only way you can leave three points open is if their percentage is below the 2 pt shot equivalent, about 33% vs 50%.  In that case you want them to take 3s, not 2s.  But teams are shooting above that these days, and that is my point.  

Getting more people interior shots should produce more fouls and free throws, though.  Shooting more threes does seem to produce more offensive rebounds due to the longer rebounds.  I’m not sure that ultimately 33% three point shooting will produce a higher point per possession than 50% twos.  Would be an interesting case study.

[Golfman25 6,904]

1 hour ago, str8baller said:

IU gets open 3’s. Which is why we shoot a high percentage. We get open 3’s cause we force the ball into our nearly unstoppable AA post player who is shooting .574 even through constant double teams. He’d be well over 60% if single covered every game. So we’d have to 1) create a bunch more threes—because we really don’t take very many—without the aid of the post-up, and 2) make them at about a 40% clip to justify not throwing the ball into TJD.    
 

I have seen absolutely nothing from us when TJD is off the floor to suggest that we can create enough high quality 3pt looks w/o his post touches to justify basing our offense off of that instead of his post scoring ability. 
 

Nothing happens in a vacuum and the other teams get to try and alter what you do, as well. 

Sure, with a guy like TJD you play inside out.  Without him, you'll need to adjust to something else.    My only point was in response to why we (and the Archie Miller teams) don't seem to guard the 3 very well -- it's old school thinking, that's all.  

But I will point out, ever since he said he was "ungardable," well he's kinda been "guardable." 

 

[Golfman25 6,904]

43 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Getting more people interior shots should produce more fouls and free throws, though.  Shooting more threes does seem to produce more offensive rebounds due to the longer rebounds.  I’m not sure that ultimately 33% three point shooting will produce a higher point per possession than 50% twos.  Would be an interesting case study.

More fouls, lol.  Have you watched the Big10 lately.  :)  Oh, and then you have to make your free thows which seems to be a lost art these days.  :) 

33% doesn't produce a higher point per possession, it's equal.  But 38% does.  That's not necessarily the point I was making though.  The question is how much attention should a defense pay to the 3 pt. shot -- In other words sacrifice some interior defense to defend the 3.   In the old days, it didn't matter because nobody could shoot the darn thing.  Today they can.  And once they start to hit 33% or so, it becomes a problem if you don't defend it.  For the past 6 years, we haven't been very good at defending it.  Last night, Iowa was 56.5% from three and only 55.6% from 2.  Ouch.  

[WayneFleekHoosier 52,156]

Are we sure he’s coming back? At this point,  I just assume he isn’t or will give us very little if he does. At most he has about ten days to round into shape before the tourney.

Maybe the staff trying to sell him on a medical redshirt so he can comeback and “be the man”. Plenty of space in the cupboard.


Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners mobile app

[NashvilleHoosier 3,922]

1 hour ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Maybe the staff trying to sell him on a medical redshirt so he can comeback and “be the man”. Plenty of space in the cupboard.


Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners mobile app

I’ve been wondering about the possibility of a medical redshirt. Not sure it’s possible b/c he played in 11 games. I believe you have to have played in less than 30% of games. Not sure if that includes the postseason. If not, he’s definitely over 30%. If it does, math isn’t my strong suit but I think we’d have to play 37 games to keep it under 30%. So 6 games between the BTT and the dance. Not impossible, but…

[Whoozhers 3,800]

I still have the worst hangover funk from Tuesday’s game.

I didn’t drink a drop either.

Maybe I should have.

[str8baller 8,055]

On 3/1/2023 at 6:44 PM, Golfman25 said:

In the old days, it didn't matter because nobody could shoot the darn thing.

Alford shot 53% from 3 on 6 attempts.  I don’t think you’re perception of history is accurate.  
 

Our problem is execution, not some antiquated system. 

[Golfman25 6,904]

14 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Alford shot 53% from 3 on 6 attempts.  I don’t think you’re perception of history is accurate.  
 

Our problem is execution, not some antiquated system. 

So back when they put the 3 point line in I was at Bobby Knight’s annual talk to the students.  He was specifically asked about the new 3 point shot.  He’s response:  I’m not really concerned.  I have the only player who can shoot the darn thing.  
 

Alford was the exception that proved the rule.  :)

[Alford Bailey 13,233]

2 hours ago, Whoozhers said:

I still have the worst hangover funk from Tuesday’s game.

I didn’t drink a drop either.

Maybe I should have.

The Journey next week is gonna be awful 

[str8baller 8,055]

27 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

So back when they put the 3 point line in I was at Bobby Knight’s annual talk to the students.  He was specifically asked about the new 3 point shot.  He’s response:  I’m not really concerned.  I have the only player who can shoot the darn thing.  
 

Alford was the exception that proved the rule.  :)

Knight famously hated the 3pt line. And he famously exaggerated to make a point. 
 

He knew Alford wasn’t the exception because several seasons back when they experimented with the 3pt line, Kitchel or Whittman…I forget which now…shot over 60% from 3.

 

And of course, the great UNLV team IU beat had a great 3 point shooter who put up 9 attempts a game.
 

I think you were duped by The General. :) 

[Golfman25 6,904]

37 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Knight famously hated the 3pt line. And he famously exaggerated to make a point. 
 

He knew Alford wasn’t the exception because several seasons back when they experimented with the 3pt line, Kitchel or Whittman…I forget which now…shot over 60% from 3.

 

And of course, the great UNLV team IU beat had a great 3 point shooter who put up 9 attempts a game.
 

I think you were duped by The General. :) 

Knight would be considered old school.  

Think you're missing the point.  You're citing single players who put up single-digit 3s per game.  Iowa as a team made more than we shot.