IUBB @ Michigan State - 02/12/22 @ 3:30 on Fox-TV

[jk34 1,105]

3 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

Archie had fewer cupcakes because of Covid let’s see how much improvement in big ten records there is 

Is there anything about IU basketball that meets your standards? You asked for some improvement, then you move the goalposts.

We have 2 pg recruits, who could step in right now, and make this team,  at least more consistent. Whether Woody is the answer, or not, trust me, he cares way more than you or I, about getting this program back to where we want.

 

[jk34 1,105]

4 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

There are different layers to this. We have improved in some areas while falling back in others. For as much as our defense has improved from last season our offense has become that much more offensive.

Records, especially in the case of last season to this season, aren't apples to apples. We went 7-2 (?) noncon last season and 9-1 this season. The difference is a MUCH harder schedule last season, like by a lot. This season we had one of the worst noncon SOS in the country. I know the theme has been "that's a game Arch wouldn't have won" and that's true in some instances (purdoodoo). I don't know conference SOS year to year but we've been gifted a pretty easy conference schedule this season. I believe we had quite a few top 10 conference opponents last season. 

So yes, "some" improvement overall isn't that far fetched. Record wise, we've improved against a weaker schedule.

You play who's on the schedule! Maybe, just maybe, we have some guys on this team who've hit their ceiling. Turnovers are a big improvement. The lack of shooters, and guys who can break down a defense, are severely lacking on this team. Woody's scheme is not set up for slow footed shooters, who can't create space, or turn the corner on a P&R. Don't know if Woody's the answer, but damn, give the IU legend a chance to turn this thing around.

[RaceToTheTop 26,339]

3 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

They fired him for both reasons. They put up with him when he was winning big. They fired him when he stopped. 17-15,  21-11, and 17-9 the last few years. 29-27 conference record during that span. Better than IU has done, sure. But the gap between where they were then to where they are now is bigger than the gap between where we were with Archie and where we are now. As you’ve pointed out before, we would’ve been a tournament team in 2020. Arizona’s a 1 seed rn while we’re fighting for a tournament berth like we have been recently. 

But if you don’t like the Arizona comparison, how about Texas? They fired their coach for on court restore in the same offseason we did. They’re #20 in the country and ranked 4th in their conference. 

Do you seriously think Texas and Indiana had similar personnel after the 2021 season?

Cause I'm sure you aren't going to compare what Arizona had talentwise to what IU has.

[RaceToTheTop 26,339]

This is the strange thing.......right now IU is a tournament team.  If that remains, are we really going to complain about the job a first year coach did in taking a 12-15 team to the tourney the next?

[Hoosierfan2017 21,917]

2 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

This is the strange thing.......right now IU is a tournament team.  If that remains, are we really going to complain about the job a first year coach did in taking a 12-15 team to the tourney the next?

Maybe we make the tournament, maybe we don’t. If we follow the trends of recent years past we’re in the beginning of our downward slide. It’s not just the destination for me, it’s the journey too. This team just isn’t fun to watch. We’ve had a few fun games - Purdue and Ohio State come to mind. But most of the season has been a slog. Inconsistent effort. A really ugly offense. It just hasn’t been fun. But, that’s been the story for most of my IU fandom. 

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,703]

This is the strange thing.......right now IU is a tournament team.  If that remains, are we really going to complain about the job a first year coach did in taking a 12-15 team to the tourney the next?

Yes, and kinda yes. I think most people were hoping for a 7 seed type team or better. I think the offense is offensive. I personally think we make the tourney and finish 3-3 but our projection is to go 2-4 or 1-5 and miss. Then you have projections next season that don’t feel like a build. It feels like a step back at this point. Momentum is down and people are feed up feeling an eerily similar stretch.


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[Golfman25 5,772]

4 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Comments like this make my eyes roll to the back of my head. Those pesky Indiana fans for being impatient about not making the tournament since 2016! 

the 9th place position in the conference right now his fault or nah? Woodson has hired to fix things and right now we’re not looking any better than we did under the previous coach. Sorry, but the real blueblood don’t say things like “the coach needs three or four years first.” They go out and make things happen. Arizona fired their coach later than we did why they’re sitting at 22-2, #3 in the country. Meanwhile you’re talking about needing to be patient for the next few years. 

They had better horses to start with?

[Golfman25 5,772]

3 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Especially now with the transfer portal. If you don’t like your team, hit free agency and get a different one. That’s what Woody tried doing, along with getting a top 30 freshman, but it’s not working well for him to date. The top 25 has several teams with first-year head coaches in it. We’re just not one of them. 

Is there any team from last year the rebuilt thru "free agency?"  Not just added a player or two here that are doing good.  But actually rebuilt their team and have gone from no tourney to tourney lock?  

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,703]

Is there any team from last year the rebuilt thru "free agency?"  Not just added a player or two here that are doing good.  But actually rebuilt their team and have gone from no tourney to tourney lock?  

Kentucky


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[Golfman25 5,772]

4 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Especially now with the transfer portal. If you don’t like your team, hit free agency and get a different one. That’s what Woody tried doing, along with getting a top 30 freshman, but it’s not working well for him to date. The top 25 has several teams with first-year head coaches in it. We’re just not one of them. 

I am counting two, 3 if you include Texas?  

[Uspshoosier 46,447]

6 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Is there any team from last year the rebuilt thru "free agency?"  Not just added a player or two here that are doing good.  But actually rebuilt their team and have gone from no tourney to tourney lock?  

Auburn and Kentucky would be the closest to this.   Iowa St rebuilt and they were looking good early but now they are trying to not free fall out of the picture.   I think they are last in the Big 12 as of today 

[Golfman25 5,772]

7 hours ago, IUFAN1976 said:

This article states the same thing but added many others too!

https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/iu-basketballs-offense-plummeting-in-advanced-metrics-at-an-inopportune-time/
 

My guess is he is too focused on his podcast instead of focused on playing basketball!

Here is the important part:

"It seems a 1981-style unleashing of the offense might be in order.  That year Bob Knight made a late season adjustment to play up-tempo and the Hoosiers tore through the remainder of their regular season and the NCAA Tournament.  And no, before you say it, I am not suggesting this team has the talent to make a Final Four run.  Rather, I am merely highlighting how a late season adjustment can deliver results."

That is what made Bob Knight one of the greatest basketball coaches.  He hated to loose more than his ego and wasn't afraid to adjust.  I hope CMW learns from his former coach. 

[Golfman25 5,772]

3 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Auburn and Kentucky would be the closest to this.   Iowa St rebuilt and they were looking good early but now they are trying to not free fall out of the picture.   I think they are last in the Big 12 as of today 

Point being -- out of 100+ mens basketball teams trying to get better and make the tourney only 2 look to have pulled it off thru free agency.  Those aren't good odds.  The portal can help fill in a piece or two, but rebuilding is hard.  

[HoosierAloha 30,077]

1 hour ago, jk34 said:

You play who's on the schedule! Maybe, just maybe, we have some guys on this team who've hit their ceiling. Turnovers are a big improvement. The lack of shooters, and guys who can break down a defense, are severely lacking on this team. Woody's scheme is not set up for slow footed shooters, who can't create space, or turn the corner on a P&R. Don't know if Woody's the answer, but damn, give the IU legend a chance to turn this thing around.

100 and stated as much in the exact post you quoted.

I don't know if Woody is the answer either, for all of use I hope he will right this ship. I hope we get Woody players in droves starting tomorrow. There are many red flags. There are many ways to scheme your way out of this when you brought in or kept the wrong players to fit your system. It's concerning we're not seeing more of a dynamic offense when there are pieces, albeit maybe not the quantity or quality to do everything you want to do.

[HoosierAloha 30,077]

1 hour ago, brumdog45 said:

This is the strange thing.......right now IU is a tournament team.  If that remains, are we really going to complain about the job a first year coach did in taking a 12-15 team to the tourney the next?

I do think we make the tourney. Can I be happy about making the tourney and still complain? There have been issues starting from early in the season and weren't addressed. Something I was really hoping with Woody is he would be, unlike previous coaches, willing to make those adjustments early and often. He's stuck to his guns after a mountain of evidence pointing to the contrary.

The biggest concern e and e! As a first year head coach you have the opportunity to set that baseline early to what is acceptable and correct as you see fit. That wasn't established.

[MikeRoberts 7,205]

7 hours ago, jk34 said:

12-15 to 16-8 so far, is not "some" improvement?

I’m concerned about the smarts of our fanbase with posts like this. Take a look at our schedule year over year and then get back to us

[HoosierAloha 30,077]

5 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

I’m concerned about the smarts of our fanbase with posts like this. Take a look at our schedule year over year and then get back to us

A few more data points to continue on this theme.

Last season our SOS was 3rd and this season it is 60th. Any more evidence that needs to be provided that last season's record was more difficult?

Last season our Simple Rating System was 44th, this season it is 33rd. I guess it depends on the varying definitions of "some" is to different posters.

The eye test will tell most that we're not vastly or world's better. We have improved, think most people acknowledge this, but to what degree is what people will argue.

[HoosierX 1,611]

2 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

A few more data points to continue on this theme.

Last season our SOS was 3rd and this season it is 60th. Any more evidence that needs to be provided that last season's record was more difficult?

Last season our Simple Rating System was 44th, this season it is 33rd. I guess it depends on the varying definitions of "some" is to different posters.

The eye test will tell most that we're not vastly or world's better. We have improved, think most people acknowledge this, but to what degree is what people will argue.

If you compare the offensive and defensive ratings of what you posted, that tells a different story than the SRS and would indeed indicate significant improvement. I'm not an expert on those metrics or saying we should give them outsized importance, but let's tell the whole story.

[MikeRoberts 7,205]

6 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

Arizona fire their coach for performance on the court or for off the court issues?   Arizona was a tourney team last year but wasn’t eligible.    Just me but comparing these 2 teams wouldn’t be a good comparison.    One coach took over a team that got the last coach fired for on court results and the other coach took over a team that fired their coach for off court issues. 

Didn’t one have zero sanctions and cloud hanging over them and the other under ncaa investigation and sanctions that stopped them from being eligible?

 

similar situation at AZ crippled IU for YEARS. 
 

there is zero reason or excuse for IU not to make the tourney this year. Period 

[HoosierAloha 30,077]

7 minutes ago, HoosierX said:

If you compare the offensive and defensive ratings of what you posted, that tells a different story than the SRS and would indeed indicate significant improvement. I'm not an expert on those metrics or saying we should give them outsized importance, but let's tell the whole story.

More data points, I have no idea the wildly different adjusted numbers between sports reference and Ken Pom. It would be interested to dig into.

Top one is obviously 2021-2022 and bottom 2020-2021

Defense improved by quite a bit and offense dropped drastically.

Someone mentioned something about losing a ton of games in the Hall last season. More data points, IU was probably hurt more by empty gyms than others, although that could probably be argued.