IUBB @ Michigan State - 02/12/22 @ 3:30 on Fox-TV

[RaceToTheTop 26,853]

17 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

A few more data points to continue on this theme.

Last season our SOS was 3rd and this season it is 60th. Any more evidence that needs to be provided that last season's record was more difficult?

Last season our Simple Rating System was 44th, this season it is 33rd. I guess it depends on the varying definitions of "some" is to different posters.

The eye test will tell most that we're not vastly or world's better. We have improved, think most people acknowledge this, but to what degree is what people will argue.

the difference between the 3rd SOS and 60th SOS is not a 20+ percent difference in winning percentage.

Who's better this year, Oregon or Missouri? Missouri 9th in SOS, Oregon 75th.  Oregon 16-8, Missouri 10-14.  Basically the same scenario where you are saying IU wiht the 3rd SOS last year and a 12-15 record wasn't worse than 16-8 with a 60 SOS this year. 

[MikeRoberts 7,300]

6 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

They fired him for both reasons. They put up with him when he was winning big. They fired him when he stopped. 17-15,  21-11, and 17-9 the last few years. 29-27 conference record during that span. Better than IU has done, sure. But the gap between where they were then to where they are now is bigger than the gap between where we were with Archie and where we are now. As you’ve pointed out before, we would’ve been a tournament team in 2020. Arizona’s a 1 seed rn while we’re fighting for a tournament berth like we have been recently. 

But if you don’t like the Arizona comparison, how about Texas? They fired their coach for on court restore in the same offseason we did. They’re #20 in the country and ranked 4th in their conference. 

They have higher standards than we do

i found it funny that Holtmann didn’t want the IU job because it was fishbowl but OSU would hire his @$$ way before IU would

[MikeRoberts 7,300]

2 hours ago, brumdog45 said:

Do you seriously think Texas and Indiana had similar personnel after the 2021 season?

Cause I'm sure you aren't going to compare what Arizona had talentwise to what IU has.

Both fired their coaches for lack of performance. So you are saying Texas has higher standards than IU…

[RaceToTheTop 26,853]

2 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Maybe we make the tournament, maybe we don’t. If we follow the trends of recent years past we’re in the beginning of our downward slide. It’s not just the destination for me, it’s the journey too. This team just isn’t fun to watch. We’ve had a few fun games - Purdue and Ohio State come to mind. But most of the season has been a slog. Inconsistent effort. A really ugly offense. It just hasn’t been fun. But, that’s been the story for most of my IU fandom. 

If you are going to pre-suppose something that hasn't happened -- we will miss the tournament -- then you've moved on from arguing about whether the team has improved and are off on a different tangent.  

[Southside 1,914]

On 2/13/2022 at 10:25 AM, IUFAN1976 said:

I agree, he is probably the only go to guy we have but I think Race has gotten closer.  Our guard play does suck but I think Bates will greatly improve next year.  I am hoping Galloway improves his outside shot but it’s so ugly, I don’t see it.  I just think when the ball goes into the post, guys stand around too much.  Yes, CMW and staff should have fixed that but they haven’t.  
 

Kopp has truly been a big disappointment and Stewart hasn’t been as good as what some of us thought he would be and X is bi-polar of a player.  I think because of that, this team may have reached it’s ceiling, which isn’t good 

Gonna take a few years for CMW to get his players, create the culture, and really be able to run his system. 

I think many expect too much in year one, especially with 3 new starters that never played at IU before..... I'm just happy with the win over PU at this point. 

Given our starters aren't going to take us far, I just hope we can get some of the younger guys more PT to prep for next year. 

[RaceToTheTop 26,853]

40 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

I do think we make the tourney. Can I be happy about making the tourney and still complain? There have been issues starting from early in the season and weren't addressed. Something I was really hoping with Woody is he would be, unlike previous coaches, willing to make those adjustments early and often. He's stuck to his guns after a mountain of evidence pointing to the contrary.

The biggest concern e and e! As a first year head coach you have the opportunity to set that baseline early to what is acceptable and correct as you see fit. That wasn't established.

You can complain until the cows come how, it's a free message board.  I just don't think if we make the tourney you can make a honest argument that the team didn't improve from last year.

In terms of losing a bunch of games in Assembly Hall last year, that cuts both ways.  It should have translated to being able to pick up the lost wins on the road.  Across the nation, road winning percentages were up last year.

[MikeRoberts 7,300]

2 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

You can complain until the cows come how, it's a free message board.  I just don't think if we make the tourney you can make a honest argument that the team didn't improve from last year.

In terms of losing a bunch of games in Assembly Hall last year, that cuts both ways.  It should have translated to being able to pick up the lost wins on the road.  Across the nation, road winning percentages were up last 

3 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

You can complain until the cows come how, it's a free message board.  I just don't think if we make the tourney you can make a honest argument that the team didn't improve from last year.

In terms of losing a bunch of games in Assembly Hall last year, that cuts both ways.  It should have translated to being able to pick up the lost wins on the road.  Across the nation, road winning percentages were up last year.

There is this false narrative that we are making the tournament. Our schedule is getting harder and we have shown very little ability to compete with good teams. Not many BS Nebraska games left to play. Time is running out

[RaceToTheTop 26,853]

Question:  did we lose or gain better players from the portal?

Gained:  Kopp, X, Durr.  You can throw Stewart in, although he wasn't a true portal player as he came in earlier.

Lost:  Franklin, Durham, Hunter, and Brunk.

I would call Durr/Brunk a push, Kopp/Hunter a push.  X/Durham a push?  Different players but similar in value IMO.  If you think it's even at that point, I'd take Franklin over Stewart any day even though Franklin has not been shooting well this year.

[RaceToTheTop 26,853]

2 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

 

Did you even bother to read what I put?  I clearly said IF we make the tourney.  Stop with the 'false narrative' talk.

[RaceToTheTop 26,853]

15 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

Both fired their coaches for lack of performance. So you are saying Texas has higher standards than IU…

Four years in, Archie Miller was 67-58 at IU.  Shaka Smart was 71-66.

Archie Miller was fired.  Shaka Smart got two more years before he was.  So what were you saying?

[MikeRoberts 7,300]

14 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

Four years in, Archie Miller was 67-58 at IU.  Shaka Smart was 71-66.

Archie Miller was fired.  Shaka Smart got two more years before he was.  So what were saying?

14 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

Four years in, Archie Miller was 67-58 at IU.  Shaka Smart was 71-66.

Archie Miller was fired.  Shaka Smart got two more years before he was.  So what were you saying?

That Texas has higher standards than IU, not sure what the confusion is. Both coaches were fired for lack of performance, yet Shaka left a much better returning team than did Archie.

texas administration expects more from their basketball coaches than we do. They change coaches and are top 20. We change coaches and are already making excuses that our coach needs 3-4 years to turn things around.

I hate the excuses 

[MikeRoberts 7,300]

22 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

Question:  did we lose or gain better players from the portal?

Gained:  Kopp, X, Durr.  You can throw Stewart in, although he wasn't a true portal player as he came in earlier.

Lost:  Franklin, Durham, Hunter, and Brunk.

I would call Durr/Brunk a push, Kopp/Hunter a push.  X/Durham a push?  Different players but similar in value IMO.  If you think it's even at that point, I'd take Franklin over Stewart any day even though Franklin has not been shooting well this year.

We lost. Durham and Franklin would have been extremely important for this team but walked away.

our fanbase decides to pump the narrative that we got better and that coach Woodson went out and got who he wanted and filled all of our weak spots. 
it was the prevailing narrative… anyone that said otherwise was chastised. 

[IU - Kaulie 1,930]

28 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

Question:  did we lose or gain better players from the portal?

Gained:  Kopp, X, Durr.  You can throw Stewart in, although he wasn't a true portal player as he came in earlier.

Lost:  Franklin, Durham, Hunter, and Brunk.

I would call Durr/Brunk a push, Kopp/Hunter a push.  X/Durham a push?  Different players but similar in value IMO.  If you think it's even at that point, I'd take Franklin over Stewart any day even though Franklin has not been shooting well this year.

We won.  

All the guys we lost are shooting awful for their current teams.  Durham has been a good player for them and scoring a lot from the line but X makes us the clear cut winner here.  I would take Durr over Brunk and Kopp over Hunter any day.  The only reason it’s close is Franklin is so much of an upgrade over Stewart even though as you said he is not shooting well.

[Golfman25 5,864]

46 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

Question:  did we lose or gain better players from the portal?

Gained:  Kopp, X, Durr.  You can throw Stewart in, although he wasn't a true portal player as he came in earlier.

Lost:  Franklin, Durham, Hunter, and Brunk.

I would call Durr/Brunk a push, Kopp/Hunter a push.  X/Durham a push?  Different players but similar in value IMO.  If you think it's even at that point, I'd take Franklin over Stewart any day even though Franklin has not been shooting well this year.

Durr has a better outside shot?  Kopp is just not playing up to his expectations.  X over Al for sure.  

[MikeRoberts 7,300]

13 minutes ago, IU - Kaulie said:

We won.  

All the guys we lost are shooting awful for their current teams.  Durham has been a good player for them and scoring a lot from the line but X makes us the clear cut winner here.  I would take Durr over Brunk and Kopp over Hunter any day.  The only reason it’s close is Franklin is so much of an upgrade over Stewart even though as you said he is not shooting well.

You realize Al Durham is starting, averaging 14 points per game, playing 35 mpg for a top 10 team in the country right?

he is the missing piece for us. He does a little of everything and isn’t bi-polar and a black hole when it comes to setting a good example both on and off the court

good riddance right?

[HoosierX 1,657]

8 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

You realize Al Durham is starting, averaging 14 points per game, playing 35 mpg for a top 10 team in the country right?

he is the missing piece for us. He does a little of everything and isn’t bi-polar and a black hole when it comes to setting a good example both on and off the court

good riddance right?

And he’s shooting about 14% from the field. Al Durham is not the missing piece on an offensively challenged team that lacks consistent shooting.

Jesus we’re romanticizing Al Durham now. He’s having a decent season, but if I had a dime for every time I thought we would never be an elite team with players like Al Durham starting, I’d have about 23 dollars.

[IU - Kaulie 1,930]

32 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

You realize Al Durham is starting, averaging 14 points per game, playing 35 mpg for a top 10 team in the country right?

he is the missing piece for us. He does a little of everything and isn’t bi-polar and a black hole when it comes to setting a good example both on and off the court

good riddance right?

Missing piece?

I would say a strong NO.  We would be worse than we are now.  X is far superior. Durham is a very good kid but as far as basketball goes X is a much better fit for us.

[jk34 1,105]

2 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

100 and stated as much in the exact post you quoted.

I don't know if Woody is the answer either, for all of use I hope he will right this ship. I hope we get Woody players in droves starting tomorrow. There are many red flags. There are many ways to scheme your way out of this when you brought in or kept the wrong players to fit your system. It's concerning we're not seeing more of a dynamic offense when there are pieces, albeit maybe not the quantity or quality to do everything you want to do.

Those are yellow flags, at best. Year one of taking over a business, is about evaluating talent, and deciding who contributes(and who doesn't), to your vision moving forward. 

"People buy into the leader before they buy into the vision.”

I see 3-4 players, on the current roster, who might resemble what Woody's vision is for our future.

[jk34 1,105]

2 hours ago, MikeRoberts said:

I’m concerned about the smarts of our fanbase with posts like this. Take a look at our schedule year over year and then get back to us

Of all people, you being concerned with the "smarts" of our fan base, is laughable!  Calling out someone's intelligence,  for stating our record is better than the previous year, is something maybe you should be more "concerned" about!

[Uspshoosier 47,018]

Technically Texas didn’t fire Smart.    Smart left before they had the chance.    Smart decision