Indiana at Wisconsin Game Thread

[IUc2016 7,121]

Our players have to learn how to win. None of them have won anything in a college uniform and it shows. 

Losing a 22 point lead on the road is maddening, losing a 22 point lead at the kohl center after all that this program has been through is just another low. It's baffling really. 

Here's to hoping we close out the non-conference unscathed and go .500 in conference to get into the dance. That was the goal for this year and it is still attainable. Just where we are right now.

[HoosierFan1994 4,754]

1 hour ago, Five Prime said:

It's not that hard.  Programs get turned around all the time.  We have an all American on our team that didn't get the ball down the stretch because our PG play was just that bad.  Get your best players the ball, it's not that hard.  Wisconsin won because they understood that simple concept. 

That's my biggest problem with the Colts at times. I kept yelling at the TV last night to get the ball to Trayce. 

[HoosierFan1994 4,754]

3 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:

Our players have to learn how to win. None of them have won anything in a college uniform and it shows. 

Losing a 22 point lead on the road is maddening, losing a 22 point lead at the kohl center after all that this program has been through is just another low. It's baffling really. 

Here's to hoping we close out the non-conference unscathed and go .500 in conference to get into the dance. That was the goal for this year and it is still attainable. Just where we are right now.

This. It's why I don't like all the yapping on Twitter and the vlog's and other things. They haven't accomplished anything yet. 

[bigrod 2,875]

17 minutes ago, Woodson1980 said:

Totally agree about Bates.

I'd like to see him worked into the starting spot and have Kopp off the bench for him or Stewart depending on situations.

I think he CAN be that guy eventually. I thought he looked like a freshman last night. Having said that, he is our most versatile guard. He just needs some more experience.

[NashvilleHoosier 3,719]

4 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:

Here's to hoping we close out the non-conference unscathed and go .500 in conference to get into the dance. That was the goal for this year and it is still attainable. Just where we are right now.

With how weak our non-conference resume will be, I really don't think .500 in the conference will do it. We have to hope that St. John's has a great season just to have one single decent non-conference win. So if we look at our 10 most winnable conference games, likely none of them are really resume builders. Maybe 1 or 2 of those wins could turn into quad 1 wins by the end of the year. On the flip side if we end up at .500 but managed to pull out 3-4 quad 1 wins that likely means we had some bad losses along the way. I think even at 11-9 in conference we are sweating it out.  I'm personally having a hard time seeing more than 9 conference wins. I really hope I'm wrong.

[Chris007 44,759]

It's really pretty simple. IU is 7-0 in when the coaches are in suits. 0-2 when they are not in suits. Suits for the rest of the season. 

[323SGrant 1,176]

Quick thoughts after sleeping this loss off.
1st half of basketball was maybe the most enjoyable half of basketball I have watched IU play in the last 8-10 years. 
2nd half of basketball was something we have seen too many times over the last 8-10 years.
X is like a box of chocolates you never know what you're going to get. 
TJD and Race both need to step up in their leadership. Demand the ball. Your all-American can't finish the game with 9 points and 6 rebounds. 
We have too many guys who you don't know what you're going to get each night. So up and down. Like Leal great against Nebraska, nothing last night. Bates, Durr, Kopp, are all others that are up and down.
We don't have anyone who can beat you off the dribble consistently. Wisconsin took away our shooters in the 2nd half and we didn't have anyone who could create. Bates can be that guy I believe. 
Coach Woodson has to get better with rotations and some other in-game coaching things but I'm not worried there, he has good assistants to help with that. 
I think some people are overestimating what Matta does. He just oversees the basketball program. He's training to be an AD somewhere. Yes he sits in on meetings but I don't think he adds that much, not near as much as Hunger, Yasir, Fife, Walsh, and Hill. 
Learn from it and move on, it's all we can do.

My buddy and I discussed some of this. In particular, if the WI players are going to come out on the three point shooters in the 2nd half what adjustments is the IU coaching staff going to make? Shouldn’t that open of some room for TJD? For me, I was very disappointed in the coaching from IU in the 2nd half. Although I believe the players need to take responsibility for poor free throw shooting among other things.


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[TheWatShot 14,196]

17 minutes ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

With how weak our non-conference resume will be, I really don't think .500 in the conference will do it. We have to hope that St. John's has a great season just to have one single decent non-conference win. So if we look at our 10 most winnable conference games, likely none of them are really resume builders. Maybe 1 or 2 of those wins could turn into quad 1 wins by the end of the year. On the flip side if we end up at .500 but managed to pull out 3-4 quad 1 wins that likely means we had some bad losses along the way. I think even at 11-9 in conference we are sweating it out.  I'm personally having a hard time seeing more than 9 conference wins. I really hope I'm wrong.

The committee has valued total wins more than anything in recent years. I think 21 wins would get us in if we have no Quad 3 or 4 losses. 

[HoosierHoopster 7,193]

25 minutes ago, bigrod said:

I think he CAN be that guy eventually. I thought he looked like a freshman last night. Having said that, he is our most versatile guard. He just needs some more experience.

Agree with both of you. Bates is hands down one of our best players already, but, as a frosh he makes frosh mistakes at times and staff is playing vets / experienced players to start and Kopp for his shooting. Eventually though Bates will start, he's way too good, on BOTH ends, to be playing off the bench - just needs to continue to learn as a frosh and develop, and he'll step into that position, sooner the better, imo.

[Chris007 44,759]

2 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Agree with both of you. Bates is hands down one of our best players already, but, as a frosh he makes frosh mistakes at times and staff is playing vets / experienced players to start and Kopp for his shooting. Eventually though Bates will start, he's way too good, on BOTH ends, to be playing off the bench - just needs to continue to learn as a frosh and develop, and he'll step into that position, sooner the better, imo.

He also disappears sometimes which is not surprising for a freshman. 

[HoosierHoopster 7,193]

5 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

The committee has valued total wins more than anything in recent years. I think 21 wins would get us in if we have no Quad 3 or 4 losses. 

Do think we'll be 14-2 coming into the @Iowa game. As bad as the second half collapse was last night, if we're 14-2 at the point we should be in good shape. And I think we finish over 21 W's.

I really, really can't wait for the rematch vs Wiscy. Think we'll win it.

 

[HoosierHoopster 7,193]

Just now, Chris007 said:

He also disappears sometimes which is not surprising for a freshman. 

Agree. And some of that is because of who plays are being run for.

[NashvilleHoosier 3,719]

4 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

The committee has valued total wins more than anything in recent years. I think 21 wins would get us in if we have no Quad 3 or 4 losses. 

True that no quad 3 or 4 losses is good but quad 3 and 4 wins are meaningless as well. And w/ our schedule, 21 wins could mean 15 or so quad 3 and 4 wins. Which might mean a combined something like 6-11 or 6-12 in quads 1 and 2. I don't think that gets it done. 

[RaceToTheTop 26,220]

4 hours ago, IUFAN1976 said:

I know Bates had his moments in yesterday’s game but could we play him at point guard.  What about Leal?  I am for trying someone other than those 3.  I can’t wait for Trey Galloway to come back, I know he could play it.  
 

we need better point guard play, instead of a head case, Mr. Timid, and no D

Stewart has played point before.  That said, he's not going to provide any speed from that position.

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

Our bigs were being out rebounded and out hustled the entire second half. It's the first time I've seen that.

It’s the first time you’ve seen the bugs get out hustled?! It’s happened for long stretches in just about every game this season, in some fir entire halves!!

We’re back to the “too cool to try” for long stretches. It’s incredibly frustrating when you can pick the player out that IS hustling while everyone else is just kind of being there. THIS.HAS.TO.CHANGE


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[RaceToTheTop 26,220]

2 hours ago, Five Prime said:

To elaborate, he plays with a lot of negative emotion.  You can see it in his body language, he gets frustrated and angry easily.  This isn't always a bad trait for an athlete, if focused correctly it can be very useful for like a defensive lineman in football.  But to have your starting PG easily frustrated and quick to anger is not great.  Other teams know this and use it to their advantage.  

He does play with too much emotion -- that is, he has the tendency to let bad things snowball.  Unfortunately, I have more hope in the staff getting him to channel it better than I do of them getting Phin to play with any emotion.

[Uspshoosier 46,175]

23 minutes ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

True that no quad 3 or 4 losses is good but quad 3 and 4 wins are meaningless as well. And w/ our schedule, 21 wins could mean 15 or so quad 3 and 4 wins. Which might mean a combined something like 6-11 or 6-12 in quads 1 and 2. I don't think that gets it done. 

Still a lot of basketball to be played but I would be shocked if any B1G team went .500 in conference and got left out.  ACC and Pac12 have done terrible in the non conference so far this year.   While the B1G started out slow they have recovered well and have set themselves up to get a lot of bids.    In my opinion there will be plenty of Q1 and Q2 games in conference. 
 

if the B1G struggles early  in the non conference is where you run into teams with winning conference records getting left out.  Archie’s first year the B1G on got 4 teams in the tourney because of this.  Nebraska was left out with a 13-5 conference record because the middle of the B1G stunk and they only beat a top 4 conference team once at home.   

[RaceToTheTop 26,220]

1 hour ago, HoosierFan1994 said:

That's my biggest problem with the Colts at times. I kept yelling at the TV last night to get the ball to Trayce. 

I've even tried yelling at the Colts to get the ball to Trayce to no avail.

[RaceToTheTop 26,220]

I have to say I continue to HATE the two games the Big Ten schedules in the middle of December.

And will continue to say 20 in conference games are too many.  Think 18 is sufficient.  If you aren't going to play everybody twice anyway, what was the reasoning to going to 20 from 18?  Most Big Ten teams now have 22 games dictated -- 20 Big Ten opponents, a Big East team and an ACC team.  It's why teams end up scheduling cupcakes in non-conference -- 22 already determined P5 games.

Cut it back to 18 and let teams decide who they want to play in the other two games.

[NashvilleHoosier 3,719]

21 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Still a lot of basketball to be played but I would be shocked if any B1G team went .500 in conference and got left out.  ACC and Pac12 have done terrible in the non conference so far this year.   While the B1G started out slow they have recovered well and have set themselves up to get a lot of bids.    In my opinion there will be plenty of Q1 and Q2 games in conference. 
 

if the B1G struggles early  in the non conference is where you run into teams with winning conference records getting left out.  Archie’s first year the B1G on got 4 teams in the tourney because of this.  Nebraska was left out with a 13-5 conference record because the middle of the B1G stunk and they only beat a top 4 conference team once at home.   

I've secretly been hoping that you'd come tell me that I'm wrong and I probably just need to go eat a banana and sit outside for a while. :-) 

I remain skeptical, but the tournament resume guru's level-headedness is helping. Thank you!