2021 Minutes Per Game

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,647]

3 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Xavier Johnson, sir?

I knew I was forgetting a transfer. Makes it even harder to know who will be starting!

[PB1230 502]

On 5/14/2021 at 12:10 PM, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I really hope that we’re not in a position where Rob Phinisee is starting next fall. No offense to him, but I just don’t think he’s very good. He was a big reason for our struggles last year. He can be a good defender but I personally value offense a lot more in basketball than defense.  You need to score the ball to win. It doesn’t matter if you hold a team under 50 like we have in the past if you can’t score 50 points yourself. 

He’s basically not a threat on offense at all. He’s a career 36% from the field and 29.8% from 3. We can blame it on Archie, but Archie was regularly yelling at him to run the ball up the court but he continued to walk it up slowly. Armaan made a big jump in spite of Archie, while Rob never has. 

It’s possible that he makes a big jump, but I just don’t see it. He was a ~150 recruit who has played like one through 86 career college games. With Bates, Stewart, and Johnson, as well as Lander hopefully, I don’t see a lot of minutes for him next year. If we do then it will probably be because our other guards disappointed. 

I think the major issue with Phin is that he is a true PG, and ultimately needs to be playing with a natural scorer at SG for him to be playing well. Either because of lack of confidence and/or increased attention by the defense, he doesn't play well when he needs to be a primary scoring threat. His freshman year which most consider his best, and Phin was playing with Romeo. If you look at Phin's best games his Soph year, they coincided with Green lighting things up (that only happened sporadically though). And this past year, Franklin while a dependable scoring threat, it never came with the ease of Romeo or Green (when he was hot) - Franklin needed almost 50% more min/game to put up similar scoring numbers to Green who was ice cold half the time.

I think with Phin playing with Johnson and/or Stewart (both likely much better scorers than Franklin) at the other guard spots, we very well might see Phin raise his game this year

[hermanbgoode 27]

1 hour ago, PB1230 said:

I think the major issue with Phin is that he is a true PG, and ultimately needs to be playing with a natural scorer at SG for him to be playing well. Either because of lack of confidence and/or increased attention by the defense, he doesn't play well when he needs to be a primary scoring threat. His freshman year which most consider his best, and Phin was playing with Romeo. If you look at Phin's best games his Soph year, they coincided with Green lighting things up (that only happened sporadically though). And this past year, Franklin while a dependable scoring threat, it never came with the ease of Romeo or Green (when he was hot) - Franklin needed almost 50% more min/game to put up similar scoring numbers to Green who was ice cold half the time.

I think with Phin playing with Johnson and/or Stewart (both likely much better scorers than Franklin) at the other guard spots, we very well might see Phin raise his game this year

I think Johnson will be the starting point guard. He averaged 5.7 assists last season, which would have ranked #1 in the Big Ten, while Phinisee averaged 2.9 assists playing only one less minute per game. Johnson isn't an outstanding shooter. He's a driver and distributor. 

Edited May 17, 2021 by hermanbgoode

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,059]

Likely going to be 1 unhappy cat at each position besides C but maybe even at C.  

 

PG-Lander, Phinisee, Xavier Johnson

SG-Stewart, Leal, Bates

SF-Kopp, Galloway,  Geronimo

PF-Trayce, Race

C-Durr, Duncomb

 

I realize these aren't hard set positions as TJD will play a lot of 5.  Bates or XJ may play the (3) or wing.  

 

But for sake thinking, this helps divide them out.   

So many lineups i'm excited to see.  I think Lander, XJ, Bates, TJD, Durr could be a fun one to watch in transition and could be a good one if Lander and XJ improve shooting.  13 guys are the way to go.  Transfers are going to happen, so long as you can recruit through them it won't be a problem and so long as the guys that transfer aren't guys getting the PT.   

Edited May 17, 2021 by WayneFleekHoosier

[HoosierFan1994 4,729]

Update after the Michael Durr commitment. 

1. TJD

2. Johnson

3. Stewart

4. Kopp

5. Geronimo 

6. Bates

7. Phinisee

8. Durr

9. Lander

10. Thompson- Side note...I'm glad Race is coming back but I am stunned he didn't transfer. I think his role will be similar to his role in 19-20..13mpg

11. Galloway

12. Leal

13. Duncomb- Hoping IU redshirts him. Don't get me wrong, he's a solid player but I don't think he sees much playing time this year unless there is a major frontcourt injury. TJD and Durr ahead of him at the 5. Race can play small ball 5. I wish IU would redshirt players more often. I think it's good. I would rather get four major impact years from Logan than 3 major impact years. Just don't think he sees more than 5 or so minutes a game. 

Bottom line..I'm pretty certain the top 6 will be accurate. I think spots 7-10 will be game by game and situation by situation. Lander may see close to 20 minutes one game and maybe 5-10 the next. A lot will depend on practice too. This is a good problem to have. 

[hermanbgoode 27]

40 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Likely going to be 1 unhappy cat at each position besides C but maybe even at C.  

 

PG-Lander, Phinisee, Xavier Johnson

SG-Stewart, Leal, Bates

SF-Kopp, Galloway,  Geronimo

PF-Trayce, Race

C-Durr, Duncomb

 

I realize these aren't hard set positions as TJD will play a lot of 5.  Bates or XJ may play the (3) or wing.  

 

But for sake thinking, this helps divide them out.   

So many lineups i'm excited to see.  I think Lander, XJ, Bates, TJD, Durr could be a fun one to watch in transition and could be a good one if Lander and XJ improve shooting.  13 guys are the way to go.  Transfers are going to happen, so long as you can recruit through them it won't be a problem and so long as the guys that transfer aren't guys getting the PT.   

Why would XJ play the wing? I don't understand why people keep suggesting this. He averaged 5.7 assists last season, more than any guard in the Big Ten, but was only a 32.1% 3 point shooter. He has started at point guard at Pitt since his freshman season:  Former Pitt Point Guard Xavier Johnson Commits to Indiana | Pittsburgh Sports Now

Edited May 17, 2021 by hermanbgoode

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,059]

21 minutes ago, hermanbgoode said:

Why would XJ play the wing? I don't understand why people keep suggesting this. He averaged 5.7 assists last season, more than any guard in the Big Ten, but was only a 32.1% 3 point shooter. He has started at point guard at Pitt since his freshman season:  Former Pitt Point Guard Xavier Johnson Commits to Indiana | Pittsburgh Sports Now

just to get a good player more PT if Phinisee or Lander to prove they deserve more PT.  So not technically the wing but 3 guard sets.  

[Go_Hoosiers 191]

1. TJD - Considered putting Johnson at 1, but TJD does a great job staying out of foul trouble

2. Johnson

3. Thompson

4. Stewart

5. Kopp

6. Bates

7. Lander

8. Geronimo

9. Phinisee

10. Durr

11. Duncomb

12. Leal

13. Galloway

[hermanbgoode 27]

8 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

just to get a good player more PT if Phinisee or Lander to prove they deserve more PT.  So not technically the wing but 3 guard sets.  

OK, that makes sense to me as long as we have Johnson as the primary ballhandler with support from Phinisee and others. Here's a bit that Dane Fife had to say about him in an Inside the Hall article. 

Quote

 

Besides the returning players, there are some newcomers that Fife hasn’t been able to work with yet. Among them is Johnson, a transfer from Pittsburgh, who averaged 14.2 points and 5.7 assists per game last season. A playmaking point guard with the ability to create for others is something that IU lacked last season.

“We need Xavier to make sure that he’s the guy that gets to the paint and kicks it out,” Fife said. “Gets guys open shots or gets Trayce easy baskets. Gets Rob Phinisee a step in three where his hips are already square to the basket.”

 

Dane Fife talks offseason workouts, expectations for Tamar Bates, Miller Kopp and Xavier Johnson - Inside the Hall | Indiana Hoosiers Basketball News, Recruiting and Analysis

[IU Scott 2,375]

Johnson./ Lander

Bates./ RP/Leal

Kopp./Stewart/Galloway

Race./ Geronimo

TJD./Durr/Duncomb

 

 

 

[Stuhoo 79,860]

8 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Johnson./ Lander

Bates./ RP/Leal

Kopp./Stewart/Galloway

Race./ Geronimo

TJD./Durr/Duncomb

 

 

 

 

Y'all might want to consider start thinking about positions like Woody does:

Category A--One In: TJD, Durr, Duncomb, maybe sometimes Race

Category B--Four Out: Johnson, Galloway, Leal, Stewart, Xavier, Phin, Geronimo, Kopp, Lander, and sometimes Race

Pick one from Category A and four from Category B for any given moment and we're ready to roll! The only (easy to accomplish) additional rule is that at least one of the four has to be a ball-handler (Phin, Lander, Xavier, or Stewart).

 

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,059]

 
Y'all might want to consider start thinking about positions like Woody does:
Category A--One In: TJD, Durr, Duncomb, maybe sometimes Race
Category B--Four Out: Johnson, Galloway, Leal, Stewart, Xavier, Phin, Geronimo, Kopp, Lander, and sometimes Race
Pick one from Category A and four from Category B for any given moment and we're ready to roll! The only (easy to accomplish) additional rule is that at least one of the four has to be a ball-handler (Phin, Lander, Xavier, or Stewart).
 

Fair, but TJD could be one of the 4 out at times. Plenty of actions to get an outside guy post touches or the ball off cuts or even PNR from the outside guys which is TJD strong suit.

41 can be ran many ways and TJD is mobile enough to still be on the court even if he isn’t the primary post guy, crazy as it sounds.


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[WI Hoosier 33]

On 5/13/2021 at 12:28 PM, Stuhoo said:

Rank 'em from 1-12 in minutes per game for the coming season. This will be an evolving thread. I'll try first:

1. TJD: starter
2. Xavier J: starter
3. Geronimo: starter
4. Race: starter
5. Kopp
6. Stewart
7. Phin: starter
8. Bates
9. Lander
10. Galloway
11. Leal
12. Duncomb

I only have two concerns when it comes to starters and minutes per game....

I hope that starting has not been promised to ANY ONE. And, I hope that minutes are EARN.

I feel like that has been a huge underlying problem with the last two admins.

[Stromboli 6,076]

13 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

 

Y'all might want to consider start thinking about positions like Woody does:

Category A--One In: TJD, Durr, Duncomb, maybe sometimes Race

Category B--Four Out: Johnson, Galloway, Leal, Stewart, Xavier, Phin, Geronimo, Kopp, Lander, and sometimes Race

Pick one from Category A and four from Category B for any given moment and we're ready to roll! The only (easy to accomplish) additional rule is that at least one of the four has to be a ball-handler (Phin, Lander, Xavier, or Stewart).

 

Really good point, Stuhoo.

 

The antiquated PG/SG/SF/PF/C set is still parroted by some people that really should know better. Sometimes the designation may help to describe a specific player, for example calling Leal a SG. But to say Woodson is finding pieces to fit those roles is off. 
 

At this point you’re filling the floor with good basketball players. The tall guys can step out and shoot. The shorter guys are still long enough to switch on defense. And dammit everyone can pass. I swear sometimes people act like you put a “PG” in the lineup and your team will click. Like a 5’11” player that can’t score but gets 4 assists per game is acceptable because he’s a PG. 
 

Here’s an article I came across years ago that changed my thinking. https://www.wired.com/2012/04/analytics-basketball/

[Crazy about IU 173]

It is going to be difficult keeping 13 quality players happy. I guess it’s a good problem to have.

1 TJ

2 Xavier

3 Phinisee 

4 Race

5 Bates

6 Stewert 

7 Geronimo 

8 Koop

9 Galloway 

10  Durr

11 Lander

12 Duncomb 

13 Leal

[BigJoe 55]

Bates will start at SG out one,done first round pick

Xavier great upgrade @ PG. Out

Trayce out PF his next level position why he stayed will create matchup probs for competition

Kopp SF out proven outside shooter strongly needed Now

Durr true center SIZE rebounder protector ready now IN

 

[BigJoe 55]

With new energetic faster pro style on offense. With hustling aggressive D lots of opportunities for mins

No more plodding listless play

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,059]

32 minutes ago, BigJoe said:

Bates will start at SG out one,done first round pick

Xavier great upgrade @ PG. Out

Trayce out PF his next level position why he stayed will create matchup probs for competition

Kopp SF out proven outside shooter strongly needed Now

Durr true center SIZE rebounder protector ready now IN

 

I like this lineup a lot. If Bates is as legit as he seems, this is a realistic lineup.  

[Stuhoo 79,860]

TJD, Geronimo, Kopp, XJ, and Bates/Stewart.

Switch dem screens, hit dem threes!

 

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,059]

19 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

TJD, Geronimo, Kopp, XJ, and Bates/Stewart.

Switch dem screens, hit dem threes!

 

I like this one too, but we gotta rebound.  Granted I expect XJ and Bates to be improved rebounders over Phin, Lander, Leal.   #Reboundingwinsgamestoo