What Can IUBB do to Revive Your Excitement/Confidence?

[Alford Bailey 12,415]

Weve gone from a guy who was a cheerleader to a guy who it looks as though it is painful for him to do anything in public. Archie is failing on the court and is also failing as the face of the program. Totally boring.

[Uspshoosier 46,339]

10 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

TV exposure to recruits is important. They are seeking out games. They are likely just turning on ESPN. 

Recruits are likely not worried about watching college basketball and are likely playing video games  

[Stuhoo 81,802]

1) Recruits want to see a coach and a program that can get them to be paid to play basketball.

2) Recruits want to envision a real role for themselves on the team, the sooner the better.

3) Top 50 recruits likely want fringe benefits.

In that order.

 

[Alford Bailey 12,415]

1 hour ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

Like I said, there was not much separation between the 4th and 10th place teams in the big ten last season. Hence why we were projected only 2 seed lines apart. They appear to have more separation from us this season, yes. But you’re still not defining what would be seen as doing “a lot more” to justify being enamored with Underwood. 

Im not too excited about Underwood yet. He does appear to have Illinois headed in the right direction with a guard and center who are both capable of taking over games.

[Brass Cannon 24,913]

1 hour ago, Golfman25 said:

I have yet to see any evidence that there is any semblence of an offensive system.  

Do you have anything to indicate it's based on the Phoenix fast break?  A quote somewhere?  Not sure why a defensive coach would adopt a fast break offense.  Those guys usaully want to run clock and limit the other team's posessions.  Of couse, it would be totally Archie to do it. 

He’s got a series of YouTube videos explaining his system.  This was when he was at Dayton. But he talks about wanting to push the pace often. He can frequently be seen screaming at our guards to move faster.  

[Josh 12,711]

2 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

I’ve seen some interviews with prospects from IU recruits where they had no idea about the IU history so I wouldn’t be surprised if kids these days don’t know about coach Knight or Wooden for that matter 

A couple things here...

1. Eric Bledsoe doesn't count.  He doesn't even know how to spell his own name
2. If IU recruits don't know the history and traditions of IU, our recruiters are doing it all wrong
3. These recruits spend 80% of their waking hours immersed in basketball.  They know the basketball landscape.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,793]

2 minutes ago, Josh said:

A couple things here...

1. Eric Bledsoe doesn't count.  He doesn't even know how to spell his own name
2. If IU recruits don't know the history and traditions of IU, our recruiters are doing it all wrong
3. These recruits spend 80% of their waking hours immersed in basketball.  They know the basketball landscape.

Robert Johnson said he knew nothing before ever being on campus. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,793]

13 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

He’s got a series of YouTube videos explaining his system.  This was when he was at Dayton. But he talks about wanting to push the pace often. He can frequently be seen screaming at our guards to move faster.  

Phinisee and Durham can't listen. Gotta run the half court sets. 

[NashvilleHoosier 3,729]

40 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

4 games is quite a bit. 

Quite an oversimplification. Half of that 4 game margin was decided by 1 point (our head to head). If Trayce’s shot falls at the end of the Maryland game that’s another game. So 3 of that 4 game margin is separated by 2 points. A quick glance through Illinois’ schedule last season shows they won 5 other games by 4 points or less. Is it still quite a bit? 

[Trish 11,706]

 

There’s way more distractions for these kids. The serious top players play, workout, and live. They’re not studying about some old guy and some championships at Indiana. 
 

Kids know Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, and etc. Do they know Indiana? 
 

eh.. University of Indiana right? It’s been this way for awhile, not just under Archie. 

[Josh 12,711]

1 minute ago, Treesh said:

 

There’s way more distractions for these kids. The serious top players play, workout, and live. They’re not studying about some old guy and some championships at Indiana. 
 

Kids know Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, and etc. Do they know Indiana? 
 

eh.. University of Indiana right? It’s been this way for awhile, not just under Archie. 

These kids have heard of Bobby Knight

[8bucks 6,556]

1 hour ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

Like I said, there was not much separation between the 4th and 10th place teams in the big ten last season. Hence why we were projected only 2 seed lines apart. They appear to have more separation from us this season, yes. But you’re still not defining what would be seen as doing “a lot more” to justify being enamored with Underwood. 

Maybe the term “enamored” is confusing things. IU under Archie has been trending slightly upward each year whereas Illinois’ trajectory has been better.  We aren’t expecting Archie to win it all after 4 years but we think the evidence points toward having another mid pack year and since we don’t have any highly rated recruits signed then the current trajectory sure seems to risk falling off.  
 

if Archie had us trending like Illinois has been the hope level would be so much higher than what it is. If we were coming off a top tier BT finish and were now a top 15ish team we would be excited about what he is building.  
 

keep in mind that Underwoods first year they finished 12th, we were 7th. The second year they finished 11th and we were 9th. Las year they jumped up to 4th and we were 11th. Different trajectories. 
 

so when people say they are enamored by Underwood they are not saying he is the next coach K and championships are guaranteed. Rather they feel as we did during the Zeller/Oladipo years. Things can change for them certainly, like they did for us and Crean but being excited about , perhaps even enamored with their current status and thinking we would not be feeling the same is silly. 

[Alford Bailey 12,415]

4 hours ago, Jesus Shuttlesworth said:

Lander has to play more because of RP’s struggles.  Durham is not a point guard.  Just because he can handle the ball doesn’t mean he should.  Lander is the only one that plays with any pace.  

Durham is not being used to his strengths.  His ‘strength’ is shooting the ball on ball swings.  He has also shown he can take a couple dribbles and pull up and hit from inside the arc.  I don’t know how many tools he has in his toolkit but it’s not pounding the ball being a point guard.

I don’t like being critical of individual players but their has been one I have been.

Jerome.  Hunter.  Cannot.  Play.  Basketball.  
Can we PLEASE sit him on the third row or whatever it is now on the sidelines behind Leal and Geronimo?

 

 

Agree with all of this. Good description of our guards and Hunter is a mid major type player.

[8bucks 6,556]

5 hours ago, Treesh said:

Is Indiana even a good job anymore? Serious question. 
 

These kids weren’t even born when Indiana was good. They don’t know who Bob Knight is and I’d argue some couldn’t tell you where Indiana is on a map. Assembly Hall is cool yeah, but it’s not an arena. Our practice facility is starting to become dated.  We were only relevant in 2012 and 2002. Can we land top notch recruits here anymore? CTC recruits went downhill once our cheating assistant coach moved on. 
 

 

It is certainly losing its luster. We still have a lot of talented kids to recruit locally and a budget willing to pay for a top coach. Similar to Alabama before Saban were they considered a top job any more?  
 

maybe if everyone else is cheating but us and we refuse to join that crowd then we are not a good job. 
 

the potential here is still very good but like UCLA we are definitely losing some of that each that passes and Indiana is irrelevant. 

[NashvilleHoosier 3,729]

6 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

Maybe the term “enamored” is confusing things. IU under Archie has been trending slightly upward each year whereas Illinois’ trajectory has been better.  We aren’t expecting Archie to win it all after 4 years but we think the evidence points toward having another mid pack year and since we don’t have any highly rated recruits signed then the current trajectory sure seems to risk falling off.  
 

if Archie had us trending like Illinois has been the hope level would be so much higher than what it is. If we were coming off a top tier BT finish and were now a top 15ish team we would be excited about what he is building.  
 

keep in mind that Underwoods first year they finished 12th, we were 7th. The second year they finished 11th and we were 9th. Las year they jumped up to 4th and we were 11th. Different trajectories. 
 

so when people say they are enamored by Underwood they are not saying he is the next coach K and championships are guaranteed. Rather they feel as we did during the Zeller/Oladipo years. Things can change for them certainly, like they did for us and Crean but being excited about , perhaps even enamored with their current status and thinking we would not be feeling the same is silly. 

Yeah I get that, and once again, I’ll say that I get (and to some degree agree with) the trajectory angle. I’ll go back to my original post on this. If Underwood was at IU, in year 4, and his first 2 seasons were losing records (the 2nd worse than the 1st), things turn around in year 3, then he brings back everyone, is ranked in the top 5 but slips to #18 after losing to the hated (and unranked) border rival and Rutgers (never!!!) and the only good win doesn’t even look that good.....oh, and since we are so bad, add in that we had to come back in the second half and need a bunch of missed layups to beat a bad (insert whoever IU is in this situation)...you’d all be pretty pleased, huh? Yeah right. These same threads would exist.

[8bucks 6,556]

7 minutes ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

Yeah I get that, and once again, I’ll say that I get (and to some degree agree with) the trajectory angle. I’ll go back to my original post on this. If Underwood was at IU, in year 4, and his first 2 seasons were losing records (the 2nd worse than the 1st), things turn around in year 3, then he brings back everyone, is ranked in the top 5 but slips to #18 after losing to the hated (and unranked) border rival and Rutgers (never!!!) and the only good win doesn’t even look that good.....oh, and since we are so bad, add in that we had to come back in the second half and need a bunch of missed layups to beat a bad (insert whoever IU is in this situation)...you’d all be pretty pleased, huh? Yeah right. These same threads would exist.

Fair enough and tbh I have not followed them as closely as you have. If Illinois finishes the season in the top 10-15 and has a good showing in the tournament then his support her and there will be fine. However, looking at his 2021 recruits and it seems he has just one commitment currently. 
 

so their trajectory has been much better to date.  Where they go from here will determine that support. Become a consistent top 20 team, all is OK. Become Inconsistent like Cream and maybe not. 

[Golfman25 5,752]

48 minutes ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

Yeah I get that, and once again, I’ll say that I get (and to some degree agree with) the trajectory angle. I’ll go back to my original post on this. If Underwood was at IU, in year 4, and his first 2 seasons were losing records (the 2nd worse than the 1st), things turn around in year 3, then he brings back everyone, is ranked in the top 5 but slips to #18 after losing to the hated (and unranked) border rival and Rutgers (never!!!) and the only good win doesn’t even look that good.....oh, and since we are so bad, add in that we had to come back in the second half and need a bunch of missed layups to beat a bad (insert whoever IU is in this situation)...you’d all be pretty pleased, huh? Yeah right. These same threads would exist.

I think that's what you're missing.  We all understand the Big 10 is meat grinder and on any given night you can lay a turd and get beat.  But the expectation as you look at the schedule is that "this is a win" vs. each oponent.  Right now, are their any "wins" on IU's Big schedule?   

If Underwood was at IU, recruited competitive players, and beat NW, IL, and Purdon't, we'd be happy.     :) 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,793]

1 hour ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

Quite an oversimplification. Half of that 4 game margin was decided by 1 point (our head to head). If Trayce’s shot falls at the end of the Maryland game that’s another game. So 3 of that 4 game margin is separated by 2 points. A quick glance through Illinois’ schedule last season shows they won 5 other games by 4 points or less. Is it still quite a bit? 

Yes. Wins are wins and losses are losses. They won 4 more games. They find the way to win those games while we found the ways to lose those games. 

[Uspshoosier 46,339]

7 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

I think that's what you're missing.  We all understand the Big 10 is meat grinder and on any given night you can lay a turd and get beat.  But the expectation as you look at the schedule is that "this is a win" vs. each oponent.  Right now, are their any "wins" on IU's Big schedule?   

If Underwood was at IU, recruited competitive players, and beat NW, IL, and Purdon't, we'd be happy.     :) 

That can be said about every B1G teams schedule.  The next 2 are home games against Penn St and Maryland.  Each game is different but IU will be favored in both.   IU’s defense should keep them in most games but it will come down to the offensive side of the ball to win some games that they shouldn’t.   Basically IU has lost 1 game so far that they “should of won”.  Got to roll with what you got and the offense is what is right now.   

[NashvilleHoosier 3,729]

18 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Yes. Wins are wins and losses are losses. They won 4 more games. They find the way to win those games while we found the ways to lose those games. 

Ahhh!! I’m kicking myself b/c I nearly typed this exact message out, knowing it would be your response. The discussion was how little separation there was between 4th and 10th, or 11th if that’s what we finished. When I give you evidence of how little the separation was, you just skirt around that. Of course they won the games. And we lost them. Someone has to win and someone has to lose every game believe it not! But that wasn’t the point.