Where Did Our 3-Point Shooting Ability Go?

[Class of '66 Old Fart]

Interesting article from Ken Bikoff posted on 247Sports but not behind a paywall.  Covers our 3-point shooting starting with Crean's arrival.

https://247sports.com/college/indiana/Article/Three-hard-way-Indiana-Hoosiers-struggle-Tom-Crean-Archie-Miller-Romeo-Langford-Yogi-Ferrell-Jordan-Hulls-Victor-Oladipo-129439340/

[coonhounds]

Interesting article from Ken Bikoff posted on 247Sports but not behind a paywall.  Covers our 3-point shooting starting with Crean's arrival.

https://247sports.com/college/indiana/Article/Three-hard-way-Indiana-Hoosiers-struggle-Tom-Crean-Archie-Miller-Romeo-Langford-Yogi-Ferrell-Jordan-Hulls-Victor-Oladipo-129439340/

This backs up what I was trying to say in purdue game thread about our shooters got worse under archie. I forgot about newkirk that was a big dip in percentage. Good read thanks

 

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[RatpigHoosier]

Just by reading the title and no more my answer would be....UCLA, UVA....


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[ILHoosier]

1 hour ago, coonhounds said:

This backs up what I was trying to say in purdue game thread about our shooters got worse under archie. I forgot about newkirk that was a big dip in percentage. Good read thanks

 

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Good Article. Our Shooters HAVE gotten worse under CAM. The stats show that. He's obviously a defensive coach. We did a 180 from CTC to CAM. "we all asked for a defensive minded coach" But for him & his staff not to be able to bring players along offensively or run plays on offense is terrible. What other coaches are this bad on offensive strategy? "Ex: no timeout to set up play on last poss. @ Iowa." He obviously didn't have a play. He had NO CLUE!! He said he "hoped RL could make a shot from 3 when we have one of the worst 3 pt. shooting teams in the nation. I've said it before, CAM is in over his head. Who loses 12 out of 13 games in conference after starting 12-2 beating good teams. A poorly coached team does. I would love to see a total roster turnover except for Deron. He seems to be the only one who cares. Then we can see who really is at fault. Which one of CAMs recruits have lived up to expectations??? According to all the cheerleaders we have to wait  four years to develop each player CAM brings in before they can contribute. Guess no more 1 & dones. Where are all the posters who said RT was the answer. JF also is lost. So far most of CAMs recruits are deer in the headlights. Sure RP makes a good play ONCE in a great while but totally lost on D. His guys get great open 3 looks all the time. According to this articles stats CAM needs to bring in a bunch of 3 stars who play his style like @ Dayton but forget ever getting past Sweet 16. Right now it looks like the IU faithful got blindsided by FG.

[mdn82]

Good Article. Our Shooters HAVE gotten worse under CAM. The stats show that. He's obviously a defensive coach. We did a 180 from CTC to CAM. "we all asked for a defensive minded coach" But for him & his staff not to be able to bring players along offensively or run plays on offense is terrible. What other coaches are this bad on offensive strategy? "Ex: no timeout to set up play on last poss. @ Iowa." He obviously didn't have a play. He had NO CLUE!! He said he "hoped RL could make a shot from 3 when we have one of the worst 3 pt. shooting teams in the nation. I've said it before, CAM is in over his head. Who loses 12 out of 13 games in conference after starting 12-2 beating good teams. A poorly coached team does. I would love to see a total roster turnover except for Deron. He seems to be the only one who cares. Then we can see who really is at fault. Which one of CAMs recruits have lived up to expectations??? According to all the cheerleaders we have to wait  four years to develop each player CAM brings in before they can contribute. Guess no more 1 & dones. Where are all the posters who said RT was the answer. JF also is lost. So far most of CAMs recruits are deer in the headlights. Sure RP makes a good play ONCE in a great while but totally lost on D. His guys get great open 3 looks all the time. According to this articles stats CAM needs to bring in a bunch of 3 stars who play his style like @ Dayton but forget ever getting past Sweet 16. Right now it looks like the IU faithful got blindsided by FG.

Who were are shooters on this team Archie ruined?


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[HoosierAloha]

Haha, there are plenty of gripes to be had. We wanted a defensive minded coach and did a 180 but we want results NOW!! Good stuff. I’m sure Archie was the first coach in history to let his players decide the game without a timeout.


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[ILHoosier]

 

44 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

Who were are shooters on this team Archie ruined?


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lol Didn't say CAM ruined them but their percentages from wherever they were before have gone down since CAM & staff have been their coaches. ArticLe points that out. FTR  80% of what I say on BTown is my opinion. I'm not an expert or pretend to be. Just my observations. I'm also under the opinion that these boys are not court smart from watching that fact over the last 5 games when I started paying attention to it. It's so glaring that we can shut down good teams on D when we want to except at the ends of games and have NO offense. All I know now is we HAVE to beat Illinois again or if we don't I'll be really hacked.

[mdn82]

 
lol Didn't say CAM ruined them but their percentages from wherever they were before have gone down since CAM & staff have been their coaches. ArticLe points that out. FTR  80% of what I say on BTown is my opinion. I'm not an expert or pretend to be. Just my observations. I'm also under the opinion that these boys are not court smart from watching that fact over the last 5 games when I started paying attention to it. It's so glaring that we can shut down good teams on D when we want to except at the ends of games and have NO offense. All I know now is we HAVE to beat Illinois again or if we don't I'll be really hacked.

Of all the players on this team that were coached by CAM and FCTC are Morgan, Green, Davis, and McBob. The rest are freshman and sophomores. Who is worse because of CAM? This year Green and Morgan are shooting better from 3 than last year. The rest are freshman or sophomores (except Fitzner). I am all for the article if he had proper context. But it would be helpful to mention that there are no true shooters on this team. Crean went after different types of players than CAM. Crean went after versatile offensive players that could create or spot up. Archie is going after lengthy athletes that work within his defense. I have been outspoken we need spot up shooters in his offense. That is my biggest gripe right now.


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[JSHoosier]

58 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

Of all the players on this team that were coached by CAM and FCTC are Morgan, Green, Davis, and McBob. The rest are freshman and sophomores. Who is worse because of CAM? This year Green and Morgan are shooting better from 3 than last year. The rest are freshman or sophomores (except Fitzner). I am all for the article if he had proper context. But it would be helpful to mention that there are no true shooters on this team. Crean went after different types of players than CAM. Crean went after versatile offensive players that could create or spot up. Archie is going after lengthy athletes that work within his defense. I have been outspoken we need spot up shooters in his offense. That is my biggest gripe right now.


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Green is shooting about 1% better than last season from 3, not a big difference, while his % from 2 has gone down.  His shooting is significantly worse than it was under Crean.

[mdn82]

Green is shooting about 1% better than last season from 3, not a big difference, while his % from 2 has gone down.  His shooting is significantly worse than it was under Crean.

As of today and I would be willing to bet if we took those two weird shots that end up as airballs away per game around the free throw line he would be doing alright. He just isn’t good going inside. That just won’t be his game. Not sure I would say significantly worse. I would say his usage is significantly higher than it should be. He shouldn’t be driving.

 

 

 

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[Hoosierfan2017]

The article cherry picked stats. Here, for example. They say "Johnson, a career 39.6 percent 3-point shooter, dropped to 37.3 percent as a senior—not a huge difference, but a critical one to IU’s success", without acknowledging that Johnson's percentage his senior year (with Archie) was better than his percentage his junior year (without Archie), on more attempts. 

The answer to their question is that our 3 point shooting either graduated or left the program. Our team lacks shooting ability and that's something Archie will have to address. 

[mdn82]

The article cherry picked stats. Here, for example. They say "Johnson, a career 39.6 percent 3-point shooter, dropped to 37.3 percent as a senior—not a huge difference, but a critical one to IU’s success", without acknowledging that Johnson's percentage his senior year (with Archie) was better than his percentage his junior year (without Archie), on more attempts. 
The answer to their question is that our 3 point shooting either graduated or left the program. Our team lacks shooting ability and that's something Archie will have to address. 

Agreed and that’s my biggest gripe with recruiting that we aren’t attempting to replace that. If we even had two good spot up shooters to this team I feel it’s a significantly different season. That is on Archie. I just feel we are looking at this from a different angle than we should.


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[JSHoosier]

11 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

As of today and I would be willing to bet if we took those two weird shots that end up as airballs away per game around the free throw line he would be doing alright. He just isn’t good going inside. That just won’t be his game. Not sure I would say significantly worse. I would say his usage is significantly higher than it should be. He shouldn’t be driving.

 

 

 

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I'd consider around 9% a pretty significant decline.  Usage could be part of, he needs to be much more selective about which shots he takes.

[Feathery]

4 hours ago, JSHoosier said:

I'd consider around 9% a pretty significant decline.  Usage could be part of, he needs to be much more selective about which shots he takes.

You mean when 3 players, that are pro players, leave the program and teams can focus more on Green his % will go down? Who woulda thunk it? 

My comment was a piggyback to yours. Meant to be an addition, not a counter. 

[Bailey7878]

Why can you not become a good shooter? Why is it you need to get shooters? I find it hard to believe 7'1 John Teske was born a shooter but probably worked on it a ton. I know he went 3 of 6 vs minnesota.

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[HoosierAloha]

Just my amateur observation but it can be contributed to culture.

Does anyone think Jordy Hulls was all upset that Roth was a better shooter? No, he got in the gym and I wouldn’t be surprised if they had some competitions. Ditto for Oladipo, he wasn’t a great shooter but worked hard to become one by his junior year. Same for Watford.

That fire and competitive nature can exponentially impact a team, as we’ve seen the opposite happen to this team. I truly wonder what would happen if the team had a few Watford, Oladipo, or Hulls type shooters in the coming years. I think it would impact the competition, for some, in practice to get better while also giving more space on the floor for others to work.

Maybe Al can become that Oladipo like shooter (no, I’m not saying he’s going to have a crazy jump before his junior year and be a lottery pick) that rubs off on his teammates to get in the gym and become eater shooters. Al, Phin, Anderson, Hunter, and Green all have the potential to be better shooters.


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