What Defense has IU won against?

[ap2345]

So I got to thinking what teams power 5 teams has IU beaten this year. So I looked and the answer is Marquette, Butler, Louisville, Penn State, Northwestern, Michigan State, and Illinois. I was curious as to what those teams had in common that allowed IU to play offense that was good enough to win those games so I went back and watched the highlights of those games and I realized something. That the four teams that I highlighted all play a variation of the pack line on defense. There are differences but the similarities are that there is always help side that is rim line,  they try and take away baseline dribble drives, and typically there is help side in the gap when the ball is 1 or 2 passes away. So my theory is that our offense was better against those teams because that is the type of defense that the IU players practice against primarily on a daily basis so they are comfortable Also Ohio State and the second Northwestern game they also played a pack line or a variation but they made adjustments to slow down IU out of it. So after noticing this I have a few concerns about what the coaching staff is doing but I'll see what everyone else on here thinks.

[FraneT]

Ohio State definitely does not play pack line. They play a very traditional man but ignored Justin Smith in order to clog the paint.  

[Feathery]

On 2/10/2019 at 9:36 PM, FraneT said:

Ohio State definitely does not play pack line. They play a very traditional man but ignored Justin Smith in order to clog the paint.  

Teams have scouted and adjusted. They know IU doesn’t shoot the ball well, so the clog the middle. Hard to have teams spread out when you can’t shoot the ball. It’s a talent issue. 

[Rico]

54 minutes ago, Feathery said:

Teams have scoured and adjusted. They know IU doesn’t shoot the ball well, so the clog the middle. Hard to have teams spread out when you can’t shoot the ball. It’s a talent issue. 

I don't think it is a talent issue as much as a personnel issue that is on the floor at a particular time.  If we play 2 bigs at the same time it would clear some of that up.

[ap2345]

Ohio State definitely does not play pack line. They play a very traditional man but ignored Justin Smith in order to clog the paint.  

False


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[ap2345]

Ohio State definitely does not play pack line. They play a very traditional man but ignored Justin Smith in order to clog the paint.  

To clarify that staff ran it at Butler and was doing the same things today. I was watching because I coach the pack line on a daily basis.


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[Old Friend]

Indiana's offense is so vanilla right now it's hard to know who they can score more than 30 points against in the half court.  They're fine in transition...not as efficient as Crean's teams because they can't shoot as well and a couple of players are turnover prone; but generally not bad.

They don't run set plays; they don't run unique or special action very often and when they do, it doesn't generally work well.  It's like there's no imagination.  No brain on the bench that can draw something up to get Romeo a lane to drive or a mismatch in the post for Morgan..   Something went wrong somewhere.   It sounds too simple to blame it on Phinisee going down with injury, but he hasn't been the same since and the team hasn't been the same since.

Before the injury, Phinisee shot 44.4% from the floor.  Since?  27.1%.  Before the injury, he had 42 assists in 11 games....3.8/game.  Since?  15 assists in 9 games.  1.7/game.

Is it that simple?  Probably not.  But it's a factor.   People point to the Marquette game as the barometer for what Indiana can be.   They still only made nine 3's.  I know...seems like a million; but it's not like they set records.   But...they also had 18 assists (Phinisee had 8) and shot 23 FT's.  Morgan and Langford had 23 shots between them.  I know Fitzner went off too...that helped. But....Green didn't play.

The dichotomy?  Louisville.   Only made four 3's.   Had only 10 assists.  Made just one more FG than Louisville who made ELEVEN 3's.  The difference?  Indiana was aggressive and shot 25 FT's.   Today?  7 FT's.  Against Rutgers?  Just 7 assists.

Point being, the problems seem to change.  There's not really a consistent numbers problem....there are just consistent problems.   Sometimes it's turnovers.  Sometimes it's lack of bench productivity.  Sometimes it's bad shots or inability to get GOOD shots.  Sometimes it's the wrong guys shooting.  Sometimes it's lack of movement of players or the ball.  Sometimes it's a combination.  But they've really only played one complete game against a good team, and that was Marquette.   Since then and especially since Central Arkansas....something's just missing.  Off.  Archie clearly doesn't have the answer, nor do his assistants.    I sure don't.

[FraneT]

22 hours ago, ap2345 said:

To clarify that staff ran it at Butler and was doing the same things today. I was watching because I coach the pack line on a daily basis.


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What, to you, defines a pack line defense? Luther Muhammad appeared to be denying ball or playing the passing lanes all game. I do not have much personal experience with pack line so please educate me if I am wrong. 

[Alford Bailey]

On 2/10/2019 at 9:42 PM, Feathery said:

Teams have scoured and adjusted. They know IU doesn’t shoot the ball well, so the clog the middle. Hard to have teams spread out when you can’t shoot the ball. It’s a talent issue. 

Exactly.

[Alford Bailey]

On 2/10/2019 at 10:38 PM, Rico said:

I don't think it is a talent issue as much as a personnel issue that is on the floor at a particular time.  If we play 2 bigs at the same time it would clear some of that up.

What 2 bigs?

[Rico]

4 minutes ago, Alford Bailey said:

What 2 bigs?

Davis and either of Race or Clifton.  Move Juwan to the 3.

[Feathery]

On 2/10/2019 at 10:38 PM, Rico said:

I don't think it is a talent issue as much as a personnel issue that is on the floor at a particular time.  If we play 2 bigs at the same time it would clear some of that up.

Having 2 bigs that can’t shoot doesn’t spread the floor. It doesn’t help unclog the paint. It doesn’t help our 3 pt %. 

When I say talent issue, I’m looking at the team composition. The parts don’t fit for a successful team. There is too many redundant parts to the roster. We are lacking in the talent of shooters. I think some of the young guys can get there, but that doesn’t help now. 

[Rico]

27 minutes ago, Feathery said:

Having 2 bigs that can’t shoot doesn’t spread the floor. It doesn’t help unclog the paint. It doesn’t help our 3 pt %. 

When I say talent issue, I’m looking at the team composition. The parts don’t fit for a successful team. There is too many redundant parts to the roster. We are lacking in the talent of shooters. I think some of the young guys can get there, but that doesn’t help now. 

Well then play 5 guards!  That will spread the floor.  Keep chucking up 3's.  Juwan is playing out of position.  He needs help.  Smith is not a banger at all.  Just do something different.

[Alford Bailey]

We shot 10-20 from 3 vs MSU. Win

We shot 7-21 from 3 vs Iowa. Loss

We shot 6-20 from 3 vs OSU. Loss

We get shots we just cant hit them.

[Rico]

12 minutes ago, Alford Bailey said:

We shot 10-20 from 3 vs MSU. Win

We shot 7-21 from 3 vs Iowa. Loss

We shot 6-20 from 3 vs OSU. Loss

We get shots we just cant hit them.

That is why I am saying go big...and pound the ball inside.  Because we sure as heck can't hit consistently from behind the arc.  

[ap2345]

What, to you, defines a pack line defense? Luther Muhammad appeared to be denying ball or playing the passing lanes all game. I do not have much personal experience with pack line so please educate me if I am wrong. 

If the ball is in the corner you force back middle and don’t give up the baseline. If you are more one pass away you are in help. If you are on the ball and it is passed around the perimeter one spot then you jump and swipe at the ball. The one thing that I will say is some teams make adjustments out of it. If they know that a team struggles with turnovers they can apply better ball pressure and keep the rest of the principles or you can hard hedge if a team is good at dribble drives out of a pick and roll. This are just basic adjustments. The pack line is the primary principles but most teams make adjustments depending on the team they are playing.


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