Tree of Frustration

[mdn82]

I guess it depends on what you mean by "Tree of Frustration." 
For me, the most frustrating player of the past 40 years was Jay Edwards. Not because his play was frustrating, but because he had a truckload of talent and it all went up in smoke -- literally. Bob Knight has said he pretty much never had a problem with what Edwards did on the court, but he had terrible personal habits (i.e. -- he apparently liked to get stoned to the beejezus belt). 
Plus, he had no business going to the NBA after two years. I just never though he was an NBA-caliber player, but thought he was great  and could've been greater at IU. 
In 1991, can you imagine a starting lineup of
Calbert Cheaney 
Eric Anderson
Matt Nover (only because you gotta have some size)
Greg Graham 
Jay Edwards

with Damon Bailey, Pat Graham, Lyndon Jones, Chris Reynolds and Jamaal Meeks available off the bench. Or maybe you start Bailey and have Greg Graham come off the bench. Or to keep the legendary Marion duo together, you start Lyndon Jones and have Greg Graham and Bailey come off the bench. 
No matter how you line it up, that's some serious firepower! 
But someone who shall remain nameless felt firing up the hash pipe was more important than basketball. 

To be fair more than a decent share of IU players have got stoned a lot, been caught, and continued to play under the last four coaches prior to Archie. I highly doubt players under Archie are much different.


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[HoosierRobbie]

Newkirk for sure. Perea as well.


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[rcbowla]

Devin Dumes

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[rcbowla]

And Lance Stemler

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[yogisballin]

Yes, I forgot devin dumes! But maybe we aren’t supposed to count him bc he wasn’t supposed to be good anyway? Smh, some people on here


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[schoosier]

Knight era. Tommy Baker- loads of talent got caught passing the pipe on an away game and was gone. Delray Brooks- was just overhyped coming out of high school as an Indiana Mr B-ball. Other notable transfers Mike Giomi and Collier. Jay Edwards is not on my list since he was absolute $ on the court. He’s easily the best shooter I have ever seen play at IU. I saw him at a frat party after his sophomore year and knew he wouldn’t be at IU much longer. Puff, puff, give.

Davis era- Bracey Wright. A better coach would have made him a legend.

Sampson era- AJ Ratliff- same issue as T Baker. 

Crean era- Hollowell tops my list although it’s harder for me to judge based on the horrible coaching. Devonte Green see below.

Miller era-D. Green. He is at the top of my list based on Tree of frustration. He has NBA pedigree, and all the tools to be great except for one. His team needs his leadership in big games and we saw how he played against Michigan. As a junior he should be that leader making great decisions. Yet he gives us air ball running one handers, poor outside shots, and terrible attitude. When Rob comes back, I hope he gets only spot sub minutes. 

[Ghost of Rick Majerus]

Marco Killingsworth

[HoosierHoops1]

2 hours ago, yogisballin said:

Yes, I forgot devin dumes! But maybe we aren’t supposed to count him bc he wasn’t supposed to be good anyway? Smh, some people on here


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His point stands. The op listed starters that commanded pt and had the ability, but who were majorly frustrating.

Anyone frustrated with the play of a 3 minute a game guy needs perspective.

[LamarCheeks]

I know earlier I wrote Jay Edwards (and there's an explanation for that).

But here's another: Emmitt Holt -- dude has a beer or two, then gets behind the wheel and runs over his teammate. 

[mdn82]

Knight era. Tommy Baker- loads of talent got caught passing the pipe on an away game and was gone. Delray Brooks- was just overhyped coming out of high school as an Indiana Mr B-ball. Other notable transfers Mike Giomi and Collier. Jay Edwards is not on my list since he was absolute $ on the court. He’s easily the best shooter I have ever seen play at IU. I saw him at a frat party after his sophomore year and knew he wouldn’t be at IU much longer. Puff, puff, give.
Davis era- Bracey Wright. A better coach would have made him a legend.
Sampson era- AJ Ratliff- same issue as T Baker. 
Crean era- Hollowell tops my list although it’s harder for me to judge based on the horrible coaching. Devonte Green see below.
Miller era-D. Green. He is at the top of my list based on Tree of frustration. He has NBA pedigree, and all the tools to be great except for one. His team needs his leadership in big games and we saw how he played against Michigan. As a junior he should be that leader making great decisions. Yet he gives us air ball running one handers, poor outside shots, and terrible attitude. When Rob comes back, I hope he gets only spot sub minutes. 

I think the only thing I would trade from your list is VJ3 for the Crean spot.


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[yogisballin]

His point stands. The op listed starters that commanded pt and had the ability, but who were majorly frustrating.
Anyone frustrated with the play of a 3 minute a game guy needs perspective.

Yet he played in every game or at least nearly every game but whatevs


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[HoosierHoops1]

1 hour ago, yogisballin said:

Yet he played in every game or at least nearly every game but whatevs


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I don't think he was referring to the Devin Dumas' of the world, he was a starter and VERY frustrating. It's the list of guys that got no pt and who didn't really have an effect on the game, that he's meaning. I can't be frustrated with the way Brandon McGee played; disappointed that he wasn't better, absolutely, but not frustrated. 

 

[Bowhunter]

Donald Perry

 

Larry Richardson drove me nuts!!

 

Any foreign big man that Crean recruited!

 

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[HoosierX]

13 hours ago, Old Friend said:

I am a little surprised to see some bad players on this list.   Why would anyone be frustrated because a bad player didn't meet inflated or misguided expectations?

I was on a rec team that beat a team Eggers was on by 30, roughly 5 years after he graduated.  Bad player.

Larry Richardson was uncoordinated and had the touch of a blacksmith.  Bad player.  Never had a chance to be good.

Luke Jiminez?  Someone was seriously frustrated with Luke Jiminez?

Charlie Miller's problem was he was a 6'6" lefty that came here the season after another certain 6'6" lefty graduated.  He could never fill those shoes.

Lindeman was not a good player, but I wonder if anyone remembers he shot 62% from the field as a senior, and averaged 10 points, 4 rebounds, and a block a game?

Meeks?  Was essentially a 20 minute guy who had a career 3:1 A/TO ratio and is 4th all time in assists at IU.  Why is he on the list?  Never was a true scorer...not even in high school.  I don't get that one at all.

My list?   I'll leave off the players who shouldn't have been here in the first place like Priller, Hoetzel, April, Jurkin, Michele, Jobe, etc.

Starts with frustration with our administration for not taking the hiring process seriously for 17 years.   Mike Davis frustrated me more than any human being for the entirety of his stay at Indiana.   Crean a close second.  Some of the kids those two recruited were embarrassing.

Bracey Wright

Richard Mandeville

Verdell Jones (Captain Turnover and he stood more than any player in IU history)

Jason Collier and Luke Recker - two very highly touted kids with all kinds of ability; never bought into Knight and never did what they could have at Indiana.

Donald Perry (Captain Turnover II - not as many, but he had a knack for poor timing)

Pat Ewing (anyone remember he was here for 2 years?)

Sean Kline

DeVonte Green - yeah...he has to be here, but improvement is possible.  Saw it Sunday.

AJ Ratliff - always thought he could have been SO much better than he was.

Joey Shaw - his dad's suits were worth the price of admission; but this is a kid who said he would be an NBA star.

Armon Bassett

Tom Pritchard

Top 3 :  Stanford Robinson (no, he shouldn't have been here, either; but since he was...when does a kid change shooting hands in the middle of his college career??)

Noah Vonleh - he couldn't have cared less about Indiana University and mailed in most of his games.  I have no use for that kid at all.  Stats be damned, that kid was here to go to the NBA.  That's it.  His team was 17-15 and he made nobody better.  There were 3 NBA players on that team, and they went 17-15.  Anyone could easily see after that year what a crock Tom Crean was.

Jeremy Hollowell.  Was a PIA in high school, never worked hard or made himself better, was lazy, couldn't have cared less.  Never has a kid with so much ability gotten so little from it.

 

 

AJ Ratliff x 10 - I thought he was going to be a star.  How many years did he even end up playing?

I question a couple of yours:

Tom Pritchard - I mean he was just a goofy, slow white dude.  He was never going to be great, similar to the argument you made against other people being included.  His put back hammer dunk was an all-time great too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BtOUw3Yzqc

Armon Bassett - Why did you include him? Because he left?  I felt like he was surprisingly good for us.

[Old Friend]

Just now, HoosierX said:

AJ Ratliff x 10 - I thought he was going to be a star.  How many years did he even end up playing?

I question a couple of yours:

Tom Pritchard - I mean he was just a goofy, slow white dude.  He was never going to be great, similar to the argument you made against other people being included.  His put back hammer dunk was an all-time great too.

Armon Bassett - Why did you include him? Because he left?  I felt like he was surprisingly good for us.

Maybe I was frustrated with Pritchard because he was exactly what you said he was.  =)   Truthfully, I watched him in high school and thought he was a much better player than he ended up being.  Personal choice for me.

Bassett was talented and a good player who listened to and followed the wrong guys when he was here, in my opinion.

[Bailey7878]

Maybe I was frustrated with Pritchard because he was exactly what you said he was.  =)   Truthfully, I watched him in high school and thought he was a much better player than he ended up being.  Personal choice for me.
Bassett was talented and a good player who listened to and followed the wrong guys when he was here, in my opinion.

I wlways thought pritchard was terrible

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[TXHoosierDaddy]

39 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Maybe I was frustrated with Pritchard because he was exactly what you said he was.  =)   Truthfully, I watched him in high school and thought he was a much better player than he ended up being.  Personal choice for me.

Bassett was talented and a good player who listened to and followed the wrong guys when he was here, in my opinion.

Regarding the second sentence that was basically every player that was recruited and played for Kelvin Sampson imo 

[hoosierfandad66]

Speaking of Pritchard. He used to be on this board quite often. What happened?

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[yogisballin]

I don't think he was referring to the Devin Dumas' of the world, he was a starter and VERY frustrating. It's the list of guys that got no pt and who didn't really have an effect on the game, that he's meaning. I can't be frustrated with the way Brandon McGee played; disappointed that he wasn't better, absolutely, but not frustrated. 
 

Mine was about Luke Jimenez


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[HoosierHoops1]

3 minutes ago, yogisballin said:

Mine was about Luke Jimenez


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Oh okay. My bad. I don't ever remember being frustrated by Luke Jimenez because I didn't really expect him to do much when he came into the game so I didn't become frustrated by his lack of performance that I know he could do. But man we all have our own independent memories of each player so it's definitely valid on the individual scale