(2019) CG - Anthony Harris to North Carolina

[Hoosierfan2017]

5 minutes ago, ctown2grhoosier said:

Nose diving? Crean was one year removed from the sweet 16 and a Big Ten title when he was fired. CAMs 1st year he inherited a roster with Johnson, Morgan, Newkrik, Hartman, Smith, Durham, Green, etc. Most coaches would kill to start off with a roster with those type of players. I'll give him a pass in Year One because it takes time to implement his defensive system, but year 2 was a disaster! Coaches in the Big Ten ate him alive. Archie made a lot of bad decisions and adjustments. He did a really bad job coaching this team. After watching this year I'm done with being patient and having Blind Faith. In my opinion year 3 has to end with us making the tournament.

No one's killing to start off with that roster. Cmon. This is an emotional reaction, not a logical one. 

[Brass Cannon]

8 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

No one's killing to start off with that roster. Cmon. This is an emotional reaction, not a logical one. 

Steve Alford probably would right about now. 

[Hillsdale87]

Nose diving? Crean was one year removed from the sweet 16 and a Big Ten title when he was fired. CAMs 1st year he inherited a roster with Johnson, Morgan, Newkrik, Hartman, Smith, Durham, Green, etc. Most coaches would kill to start off with a roster with those type of players. I'll give him a pass in Year One because it takes time to implement his defensive system, but year 2 was a disaster! Coaches in the Big Ten ate him alive. Archie made a lot of bad decisions and adjustments. He did a really bad job coaching this team. After watching this year I'm done with being patient and having Blind Faith. In my opinion year 3 has to end with us making the tournament.

Any coach who could take over a team that went 18-16 the year before and then lost its 3 best players would salivate at the opportunity. Then when you consider that you also get to have a poorly ranked incoming recruiting class, well that just makes it a no brainier...

The idea that this program is way behind is ridiculous. Yes, last year was a setback, and we should have made the tournament even with injuries. But as frustrating as it was, we were one win from making it. We got ahead of ourselves after a couple close wins, but the shooting was never strong enough to be consistently good. Coaches did not eat him alive. I agree that the tournament this year should be an expectation.


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[jk34]

Just curious, for all of frustration regarding the program, what's people's solution for becoming "elite" again. Fire Glass, fire Archie, Replace drop ceilings, pay players. Been attending games since 1973, and I want to see a  consistent winning program. I truly believe at this time, Archie is the guy to get us there. Saying Holtman is a better coach at this point is ludicrous. And the kind of statement that made him not want to coach here in the first place.

[Brass Cannon]

3 minutes ago, jk34 said:

Just curious, for all of frustration regarding the program, what's people's solution for becoming "elite" again. Fire Glass, fire Archie, Replace drop ceilings, pay players. Been attending games since 1973, and I want to see a  consistent winning program. I truly believe at this time, Archie is the guy to get us there. Saying Holtman is a better coach at this point is ludicrous. And the kind of statement that made him not want to coach here in the first place.

4-0 record against Archie yet it’s ludicrous he’s better?

[Capt. Crimson]

Replace drop ceilings

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]



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[HinnyHoosier]

My response to those who disagree, which is fine, is the same as my previous posts. They just need to be re-read.


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[Hillsdale87]

4-0 record against Archie yet it’s ludicrous he’s better?

Archie went 2-0 against Izzo this year. By the transitive property, IU was a Final 4 team this year. Small sample sizes are mostly worthless. 2 of our losses to OSU were due to Jackson making a crazy 3 at the end and easily could have been IU wins.


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[Hoosierfan2017]

8 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

4-0 record against Archie yet it’s ludicrous he’s better?

A four game sample size over two seasons in which 3 of the 4 games were decided by 4 points or less isn't the strongest evidence. People will always be comparing them because they took over Big 10 programs at the same time as each other. Holtmann took over a much better situation than Archie did. 

[jk34]

11 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

4-0 record against Archie yet it’s ludicrous he’s better?

Archie is better or equal to Izzo! Ludicrous?

[Brass Cannon]

3 minutes ago, jk34 said:

Archie is better or equal to Izzo! Ludicrous?

Izzo beat Archie last year so you’re Ridiculous point is even more ridiculous

[Brass Cannon]

5 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

A four game sample size over two seasons in which 3 of the 4 games were decided by 4 points or less isn't the strongest evidence. People will always be comparing them because they took over Big 10 programs at the same time as each other. Holtmann took over a much better situation than Archie did. 

Never said it was a fact but to say it’s Ludicrous is absolutely wrong and no it was generally agreed by both Fanbases that holtman had it worse

[jk34]

3 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Izzo beat Archie last year so you’re Ridiculous point is even more ridiculous

Therefore the equal. 2 -2 record! Argue all you want. a 4 game sample size is ludicrous. Outside success pointed to Archie being better than Holtman.

[Brass Cannon]

7 minutes ago, jk34 said:

Therefore the equal. 2 -2 record! Argue all you want. a 4 game sample size is ludicrous. Outside success pointed to Archie being better than Holtman.

What outside success they both had success at smaller schools

2-2 is very different than 4-0 btw

Holtman has made the tourney 5 straight years. 4 of these years were 1st or 2nd years at his school. 

Holtman has done twice what Archie wasn’t able to do and it was unfair to expect him to do(according to some)

[jk34]

10 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

What outside success they both had success at smaller schools

2-2 is very different than 4-0 btw

Holtman has made the tourney 5 straight years. 4 of these years were 1st or 2nd years at his school. 

Holtman has done twice what Archie wasn’t able to do and it was unfair to expect him to do(according to some)

Whatever fits your narrative. Taking the least relative sentence out of my post. Just asking what the solution is for the future of IU basketball is the bigger question.                             

PS. - Was Keady a better coach than Knight?

[Hillsdale87]

Never said it was a fact but to say it’s Ludicrous is absolutely wrong and no it was generally agreed by both Fanbases that holtman had it worse

The idea that Holtmann had it worse is acknowledged by you, and I'm not sure anybody else. Most people in basketball thought Crean deserved to be fired. Most did not expect Matta to go because OSU was not a disaster. The number of scholarship players at OSU doesn't really matter. Most teams only play 8 man rotations anyway, and last year's team played 5 top 100 guys. They had really good players


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[Brass Cannon]

2 minutes ago, Free Jurkin! said:

 

The idea that Holtmann had it worse is acknowledged by you, and I'm not sure anybody else. Most people in basketball thought Crean deserved to be fired. Most did not expect Matta to go because OSU was not a disaster. The number of scholarship players at OSU doesn't really matter. Most teams only play 8 man rotations anyway, and last year's team played 5 top 100 guys. They had really good players


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How many top 100 players did we have last year?  

He had like 8 scholarship players. He got basically all to contribute versus our 50% or so. 

Just because  he did more with less doesn’t mean he had a better situation. 

[Hornsby]

This honestly hurts. Makes me feel like we're stuck in the middle. Recruits don't want that pressure either. 

Huh? You dont think there is pressure at kentucky or duke??

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[LamarCheeks]

I'm almost to the point where I suggest that about two hours after a player commits to another school, the mods permanently close the thread. The kid's going elsewhere -- let's wish him good luck and move on. There's no sense in beating Archie or ourselves or each other up over it. It's time to get past it. 

[Hovadipo]

2 minutes ago, LamarCheeks said:

I'm almost to the point where I suggest that about two hours after a player commits to another school, the mods permanently close the thread. The kid's going elsewhere -- let's wish him good luck and move on. There's no sense in beating Archie or ourselves or each other up over it. It' time to get past it. 

I see your point, but it becomes a good venting thread instead of it leaking to other parts of the board. There won’t be much more to talk about when a kid goes elsewhere, so might as well let the meltdown happen in one spot.