IU Baseball

[Aaron]

56 minutes ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Sorry to disappoint some of you but this tweeted today.

As I said was going to be the case, @ASU_Baseball AD Ray Anderson announces that Tracy Smith will return for another season. No doubt, Tracy needs to show some serious progress in 2019, though.

I actually don't think this is bad for IU. We are not really in position to fire Lemonis after this yr despite the struggles and inconsistency. This way no one can scoop up Smith this year, Lemonis can have 1 more trial yr (hopefully with a new assistant that can develop talent better) and if both programs still struggle we can take Smith back in 2020.   

[Brass Cannon]

33 minutes ago, Aaron said:

I actually don't think this is bad for IU. We are not really in position to fire Lemonis after this yr despite the struggles and inconsistency. This way no one can scoop up Smith this year, Lemonis can have 1 more trial yr (hopefully with a new assistant that can develop talent better) and if both programs still struggle we can take Smith back in 2020.   

How would you project us on the talent front next year Aaron. More? Less?  

[TheWatShot]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

Wow ASU fans may riot

I don't want this to be taken as a jab at Smith, but I feel their pain. We kept Mike Davis and Tom Crean well past their expiration dates.

[Aaron]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

How would you project us on the talent front next year Aaron. More? Less?  

Similar talent. We lose Sowers and Sabol for sure (and a few other guys who barely contributed).

In terms of draft eligible prospects if I were a betting man I think Lloyd, Miller and Stiever are gone. I think Fineman is 50-50. I think Milto, Kaletha and Herrin return and are either not drafted or come back to hone their skills as very low round picks.

Gorski, Bradley, Houston, Beauchamp, Krueger, Saalfrank, Ashley and Sommer are back for sure barring a transfer which I doubt.

I am kind of not sure how we will do. I see promise but I also am afraid some of these guys will never get better under Lemonis given his player developement issues.

Lineup will probably be (not in this order):

Kaletha

Gorski 

Bradley

Fineman or Cross

Barr

Ashley

Walker

Houston

Dunham

 

Bench:

Crail

Bunnell

Cross (if Fineman back)

 

Weekend Starting Pitching:

Milto 

Herrin

Beauchamp

 

Bullpen and/or weekday starters;
Krueger

Sommer

Saalfrank

Manous

Sloan

Long 

Eaton

 

Also not sure what to make of red shirts who didn't play this year and our incoming recruiting class which is of course strong again. On paper this is a team that should compete for a tourney spot again (assuming I am right on who stays and goes) but player development is always a concern and we won't know until we see team in action next year. 

[LamarCheeks]

17 hours ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Sorry to disappoint some of you but this tweeted today.

As I said was going to be the case, @ASU_Baseball AD Ray Anderson announces that Tracy Smith will return for another season. No doubt, Tracy needs to show some serious progress in 2019, though.

Tracy Smith reminds me in many ways of Rich Rodriguez (minus the slimeball behavior -- and the lying). Rich Rod seemingly was at his "dream job" -- his alma mater, West Virginia, and he was doing very well there. But he became infatuated with the bright lights and big city that is Michigan football. And after lying about it, he bolted. How'd that turn out? ... Then, he took the Arizona job. He never did much there, then gets fired amid reports of workplace misconduct. It seems as if he'd just have been better off staying at WVU to begin with. ... Please, don't misunderstand me -- Tracy Smith seems to be a very upstanding guy. As far as I know, he never lied about the possibility of leaving IU and never behaved inappropriately, so those aren't the comparisons I'm trying to draw. But he had just turned IU into the top program in his home state and into the premier program in the B1G -- maybe even the entire Midwest. But he was drawn to the allure of the Arizona State program -- or maybe they simply made him an offer he couldn't refuse. Either way, If he'd just have stayed put, he'd probably be happier and we'd probably be happier. Lemonis seems to be a very adept recruiter, but as many have pointed out here, he doesn't seem to have a knack for developing talent. ... Smith took a football prospect from Middletown, Ohio, and turned him into a bona fide NCAA baseball star who is now a legitimate big leaguer. ... Many times, the grass isn't always greener ... 

[Aaron]

Raekstraw and JMV with a fairly intensive discussion on IU and PU baseball beginning at the 7 minute mark of this podcast:

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-ride-with-jmv/e/54677265?autoplay=true

Grady and Joe also mentioned IU briefly in their show which takes a lot for them as they rarely talk anything but Pacers and Colts (Dakich and JMV by contrast generally cover all local sports besides Pacers and Colts equally including high school, college and MLB [Cubs and Reds mostly since they cover the vast majority of local baseball fans]).

Say what you want about our program and the struggles Lemonis has developing players but the fact Indy radio realizes IU exists in college baseball and discusses them a couple times a year and around postseason play shows how far program has come. I also understand Raekstraw and JMV clearly are not as informed as obvious from discussion and are observing from a distance but the fact IU gets time at all is a major positive. 

Also from a personal level my best friend is a huge IU fan but less into baseball than football and basketball and I always have to text him with baseball news. During the selection show I was in them middle of something at work (yes my job requires working Memorial Day unfortunately) and didn't get to twitter or a TV in the break room before the show started and he texted me saying he was watching the show and broke for me that IU had been selected to Austin.

 

[TXHoosierDaddy]

23 hours ago, LamarCheeks said:

Tracy Smith reminds me in many ways of Rich Rodriguez (minus the slimeball behavior -- and the lying). Rich Rod seemingly was at his "dream job" -- his alma mater, West Virginia, and he was doing very well there. But he became infatuated with the bright lights and big city that is Michigan football. And after lying about it, he bolted. How'd that turn out? ... Then, he took the Arizona job. He never did much there, then gets fired amid reports of workplace misconduct. It seems as if he'd just have been better off staying at WVU to begin with. ... Please, don't misunderstand me -- Tracy Smith seems to be a very upstanding guy. As far as I know, he never lied about the possibility of leaving IU and never behaved inappropriately, so those aren't the comparisons I'm trying to draw. But he had just turned IU into the top program in his home state and into the premier program in the B1G -- maybe even the entire Midwest. But he was drawn to the allure of the Arizona State program -- or maybe they simply made him an offer he couldn't refuse. Either way, If he'd just have stayed put, he'd probably be happier and we'd probably be happier. Lemonis seems to be a very adept recruiter, but as many have pointed out here, he doesn't seem to have a knack for developing talent. ... Smith took a football prospect from Middletown, Ohio, and turned him into a bona fide NCAA baseball star who is now a legitimate big leaguer. ... Many times, the grass isn't always greener ... 

I have to think it's just not a good fit at this point in time from a culture standpoint. Tracy is a Midwest guy but ASU is a perrenial top 5 program so it in essence would be a dream job for a lot of coaches. Tracy has now had a chance to bring in his own guys since this is his 4th year there and he is still not getting it done. They really haven't improved at all during his time there and even have regressed further if anything. His seat will be smoking hot next year so there will be a lot of pressure. At this point, I just don't see him getting it done but we'll see. 

[Class of '66 Old Fart]

CONGRATULATIONS!

[TXHoosierDaddy]

On 5/29/2018 at 7:47 PM, Aaron said:

Similar talent. We lose Sowers and Sabol for sure (and a few other guys who barely contributed).

In terms of draft eligible prospects if I were a betting man I think Lloyd, Miller and Stiever are gone. I think Fineman is 50-50. I think Milto, Kaletha and Herrin return and are either not drafted or come back to hone their skills as very low round picks.

Gorski, Bradley, Houston, Beauchamp, Krueger, Saalfrank, Ashley and Sommer are back for sure barring a transfer which I doubt.

I am kind of not sure how we will do. I see promise but I also am afraid some of these guys will never get better under Lemonis given his player developement issues.

Lineup will probably be (not in this order):

Kaletha

Gorski 

Bradley

Fineman or Cross

Barr

Ashley

Walker

Houston

Dunham

 

Bench:

Crail

Bunnell

Cross (if Fineman back)

 

Weekend Starting Pitching:

Milto 

Herrin

Beauchamp

 

Bullpen and/or weekday starters;
Krueger

Sommer

Saalfrank

Manous

Sloan

Long 

Eaton

 

Also not sure what to make of red shirts who didn't play this year and our incoming recruiting class which is of course strong again. On paper this is a team that should compete for a tourney spot again (assuming I am right on who stays and goes) but player development is always a concern and we won't know until we see team in action next year. 

After watching this weekend I can't see Fineman going. Honestly, not sure anyone is a sure thing. I guess maybe Miller and Steiver? Also, what position would Lloyd be going for, first base? Dude is a good hitter but still swings and misses way too much. 

[Aaron]

19 minutes ago, TXHoosierDaddy said:

After watching this weekend I can't see Fineman going. Honestly, not sure anyone is a sure thing. I guess maybe Miller and Steiver? Also, what position would Lloyd be going for, first base? Dude is a good hitter but still swings and misses way too much. 

Scouts love two way prospects so any guy who is an effective pitcher and closer and has a good bat does not need to have a position nailed down. Scouts will take him and figure that out later. I learned from my mentor coaches there is nothing like a guy who can play anywhere and this was with guys who were not particularly effective at either pitching or hitting. Lloyd while not perfect at either is certainly solid at both and that will almost certainly get his name called in the draft higher than you think but we will see.

I stand by my prediction that Miller, Lloyd and Stiever will be gone and than Milto and Fineman may be drafted very low and have a decision to make. Everyone else should be back who contributes except Sowers and Sabol who graduate. I hope Sowers gets drafted and deserves it. This is a guy with a better staff who can develop talent is a top pick last year. He has all the tools but never put it together as well as he should of despite a solid career.  

[Brass Cannon]

While this season did result in 40 wins.  I think its beyond ridiculous that at no point did we really contemd for the conference or conference tournament. 

We keep pretending that we are the elite of the Big Ten but have we even finished top 3 since Smith left? 

Minny has won it 2 of the last 3 years and came in 3rd the other. I said it at the beginning of the season, time for no more excuses and to start winning.  There is absolutely no reason to have finished this far back. 

There have been comparisons to Butler basketball. Well butler basketball doesnt get stud recruiters who are bad coaches. They get good coaches and prey upon the dozens of teams poorly coached. 

As i have said time and time again if you want to be a big boy program you dont hire an assistant.  

[TXHoosierDaddy]

28 minutes ago, Aaron said:

Scouts love two way prospects so any guy who is an effective pitcher and closer and has a good bat does not need to have a position nailed down. Scouts will take him and figure that out later. I learned from my mentor coaches there is nothing like a guy who can play anywhere and this was with guys who were not particularly effective at either pitching or hitting. Lloyd while not perfect at either is certainly solid at both and that will almost certainly get his name called in the draft higher than you think but we will see.

I stand by my prediction that Miller, Lloyd and Stiever will be gone and than Milto and Fineman may be drafted very low and have a decision to make. Everyone else should be back who contributes except Sowers and Sabol who graduate. I hope Sowers gets drafted and deserves it. This is a guy with a better staff who can develop talent is a top pick last year. He has all the tools but never put it together as well as he should of despite a solid career.  

That makes sense on Lloyd. Based on that, I think that he and Miller are gone. Stiever is 50/50 and Finneman and Milto definitely are back. Guess we'll see here soon!

[Aaron]

2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

While this season did result in 40 wins.  I think its beyond ridiculous that at no point did we really contemd for the conference or conference tournament. 

We keep pretending that we are the elite of the Big Ten but have we even finished top 3 since Smith left?  

Minny has won it 2 of the last 3 years and came in 3rd the other. I said it at the beginning of the season, time for no more excuses and to start winning.  There is absolutely no reason to have finished this far back. 

There have been comparisons to Butler basketball. Well butler basketball doesnt get stud recruiters who are bad coaches. They get good coaches and prey upon the dozens of teams poorly coached. 

As i have said time and time again if you want to be a big boy program you dont hire an assistant.  

Ironically the year we missed the tournament in 16 we were 3rd and almost won Big Ten but due to a bad non conference schedule we were not even close to tourney much like Michigan this year. I would much rather be further down in Big Ten and play in NCAA tournament as we did in 15, 17 and 18 than have the season Michigan did or we did in 2016.

Although we don't always contend for title we have certainly been Big Ten's most consistent team last 10 years after being the worst for our entire history. This is exactly where I was comparing to Butler. They sucked for their entire history, made a great run and have since been Big East's most consistent team making tourney almost every year despite rarely contending for conference title. With that said I completely agree that they are better coached as you have alluded to.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying and program needs to improve its results in player development especially. I as you know have been very critical myself a lot of the year. However, if we can win at this level we have to be satisfied but I am not sure we can if player development does not improve pretty quickly.   

[Aaron]

Well due to Lemonis’ inability to develop players for the second straight year we made out with little damage in the draft in terms of losses with just Stiever, Miller and Herrin getting drafted (as well as Sowers and good for him because he was exhibit A on someone who never reached their potential with this staff). We can kiss Stiever and Miller goodbye and happy for them and Herrin is 50-50 I would say.

Either way for the short term like last year we are now set up really well for a nice postseason run next year barring anyone else transferring or something.

Lineup:

Kaletha

Lloyd

Gorski

Fineman

Bradley

Houston

Walker

Barr

Ashley

Bench:

Crail

Cross

Dunham

Bunnell

Pitching:

Milto (Friday)

Beauchamp (Saturday)

Saalfrank (Sunday)

Sommer (weekday)

Eaton

Long

Lloyd

Sloan

Krueger

Manous

It shocks me Lloyd was not drafted and Fineman with better development would be drafted as well and pretty high. All the players I mentioned above for next year doesn’t even include recruits so like I said we are in excellent shape again for a nice run barring transfers or something.

Long term I really worry about Lemonis’ ability to recruit at this high level as more and more players don’t live up to their potential which could make things difficult. I guess for next year though barring something unforeseen we should be in for another fairly fun (if at times aggravating with fundamentals) ride.     

[Aaron]

More breaking news: McDonnell is staying at Louisville which means Lemonis is our guy next year. As I said I do not expect a change to the staff unless they leave on their own (and I have pretty good hunch on this as I said). 

So I guess again for next year we can expect a good season with pretty much everything in tact from this year minus Miller, Stiever, Sowers and maybe Herrin and add in recruits. So were back where we were at this time last year where short term for next year things look very promising but long term a lot of questions remain about this staffs ability to develop players and teach fundamentals. 

Looking forward to another good run next year most likely and then we will see. 

[TheWatShot]

I think best case scenario would be Lemonis parlaying a huge season next year into a higher-paying job while we get Smith back after he gets fired from ASU.

[Aaron]

5 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

I think best case scenario would be Lemonis parlaying a huge season next year into a higher-paying job while we get Smith back after he gets fired from ASU.

All that is possible now and I think I may agree with you. I could actually see this happening and know for sure IU would welcome Smith back with open arms if Lemonis leaves. 

[WayneFleekHoosier]

I want Lemonis as long as the Hoosiers stay competitive.  I guess Smith is a good fallback plan, but I'm rooting for continued success with Lemonis.  

[TXHoosierDaddy]

16 hours ago, Aaron said:

Well due to Lemonis’ inability to develop players for the second straight year we made out with little damage in the draft in terms of losses with just Stiever, Miller and Herrin getting drafted (as well as Sowers and good for him because he was exhibit A on someone who never reached their potential with this staff). We can kiss Stiever and Miller goodbye and happy for them and Herrin is 50-50 I would say.

Either way for the short term like last year we are now set up really well for a nice postseason run next year barring anyone else transferring or something.

Lineup:

Kaletha

Lloyd

Gorski

Fineman

Bradley

Houston

Walker

Barr

Ashley

Bench:

Crail

Cross

Dunham

Bunnell

Pitching:

Milto (Friday)

Beauchamp (Saturday)

Saalfrank (Sunday)

Sommer (weekday)

Eaton

Long

Lloyd

Sloan

Krueger

Manous

It shocks me Lloyd was not drafted and Fineman with better development would be drafted as well and pretty high. All the players I mentioned above for next year doesn’t even include recruits so like I said we are in excellent shape again for a nice run barring transfers or something.

Long term I really worry about Lemonis’ ability to recruit at this high level as more and more players don’t live up to their potential which could make things difficult. I guess for next year though barring something unforeseen we should be in for another fairly fun (if at times aggravating with fundamentals) ride.     

Yep, I saw where he is taking credit for 13 or 14 guys getting drafted under his watch. However, most of those guys were Smith recruits. I believe this was his first year of solely Lemonis guys. Sowers was supposed to be a high ranked draft pick. He went in the 31st rd out of high school and only parlayed that into a 29th round pick in 4 years at IU. Just one example so unfair to just pin that on the player development argument but this seems to be something to watch under Lemonis'. Like you said, Fineman was well positioned to get drafted before this season after building on his freshman campaign and then took a step back offensively. I thought Lloyd would take a step up offensively and I don't think he really did. We look to have a great lineup for next year but I thought the same of the lineup this year and most guys didn't show drastic improvement imo. 

Pitching looks promising too. We know Pauly is rock solid and Saafrank and Sommer showed well in the tourney as did Kreuger. Nice to have Lloyd back as closer as well. He's a great competitor. I am really going to be interested in this coming year with everything we return not even counting a surprise freshman stepping in or two. If we don't show improvement and are a top two team in the BIG, I will be disappointed. Then I would say let's take a look at Smith. I do have major doubts though that that unless Lemonis' takes a better job, he will be here for as long as he wants. Our AD doesn't strike me as one that will make a change as long as we continue to make the tourney. 

[TXHoosierDaddy]

15 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I want Lemonis as long as the Hoosiers stay competitive.  I guess Smith is a good fallback plan, but I'm rooting for continued success with Lemonis.  

I see that viewpoint but man Smith had things running on all cylinders here. He couldn't do anything wrong. We seem to be pretty loaded for next season only losing only three impact guys (Miller, Sowers, Steiver). I don't see any reason we can't finish in the top two of the BIG with everything we return and i think we should be ranked in the top 25 to start the year. Will be interested to see how we perform.