Corruption in College Basketball

[mdn82]

Zion is getting sued by this person can they ask him in a deposition if he got paid to play for Duke.  
 
Zion would risk perjury in this case right?  Assuming the agent has some legit proof 

It sounds like he didn’t get paid directly so they want him to acknowledge he knew why people got money. I doubt we hear him say much.


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[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

Why would Zion admit to receiving anything? Is he legally obligated?


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Don't know

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[Bigred3588]

2 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

Zion is getting sued by this person can they ask him in a deposition if he got paid to play for Duke.  
 

Zion would risk perjury in this case right?  Assuming the agent has some legit proof 

You’d be amazed at what judges will allow in a deposition. My fiancé’s ex and his mother are facing felony aggravated stalking charges and the judge allowed his lawyer to ask my fiancé questions regarding her current residence during her deposition. 

Based off what I’ve seen with regards to this case, they’re using the threat of perjury to try and force him into admitting impermissible benefits. It will ultimately depend on what the judge allows them to ask.

[Indy]

Re: Zion and the claims of improper benefits

1.  As much as I'd love to see Duke hit, it's one of those schools that, IMO, does not need to do things like this to get top talent.  Kids know what that name on the jersey does for their NBA prospects, and playing/developing under Coach K is a huge advantage.  I really do find this hard to believe, that Duke would have to resort to these tactics, whether directly or through back channels, to land a kid like Zion

 

2. Even if this does in fact turn out to be true, I do not for one single second believe anything will happen to Duke. Ever. 

[maharkn]

Re: Zion and the claims of improper benefits
1.  As much as I'd love to see Duke hit, it's one of those schools that, IMO, does not need to do things like this to get top talent.  Kids know what that name on the jersey does for their NBA prospects, and playing/developing under Coach K is a huge advantage.  I really do find this hard to believe, that Duke would have to resort to these tactics, whether directly or through back channels, to land a kid like Zion
 
2. Even if this does in fact turn out to be true, I do not for one single second believe anything will happen to Duke. Ever. 

Coach K is old and has quit coaching and wants another championship and will do whatever to get it. He changed his model of coaching from actually coaching and making the players better to just trying to win with projected talent which has not worked.

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[ebridges24]

45 minutes ago, Indy said:

Re: Zion and the claims of improper benefits

1.  As much as I'd love to see Duke hit, it's one of those schools that, IMO, does not need to do things like this to get top talent.  Kids know what that name on the jersey does for their NBA prospects, and playing/developing under Coach K is a huge advantage.  I really do find this hard to believe, that Duke would have to resort to these tactics, whether directly or through back channels, to land a kid like Zion

 

2. Even if this does in fact turn out to be true, I do not for one single second believe anything will happen to Duke. Ever. 

I tend to agree, except with the top ten type guys. I believe they do have to play dirty to get some of these guys.

[mdn82]

I tend to agree, except with the top ten type guys. I believe they do have to play dirty to get some of these guys.

Yeah, nobody will ever tell me Zion didn’t get paid (he should with all of the money everyone made off of him). But like a Semi Ojeleye we were both in on, I doubt he is getting much. They always seem to have a guy or two per year that’s the allure of Duke guy. A Plumlee, a Jack White, etc. They do seem to be in more money players in recent years. When you get 1, 2, and 3 you stretched your budget.


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[Stuhoo]

3 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

Yeah, nobody will ever tell me Zion didn’t get paid (he should with all of the money everyone made off of him). But like a Semi Ojeleye we were both in on, I doubt he is getting much. They always seem to have a guy or two per year that’s the allure of Duke guy. A Plumlee, a Jack White, etc. They do seem to be in more money players in recent years. When you get 1, 2, and 3 you stretched your budget.


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He may be getting a lot of $$, but it is likely directly from the shoe company or agent, without the university needing to be involved.

And there you have the reason that Duke and K will likely escape unscathed from all of this.

 

[HoosierAloha]

This isn’t something Dook just started doing recently. They’ve played the game for at least 20 years. Are people still this naive to believe Dook can land top players just because of their name? Kids (see: handlers) would rather play at an LSU and get paid than going to Dook to play for free.

Scouts will find talent whether their at Dook or a DePaul/Creighton.


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[mdn82]

 
He may be getting a lot of $$, but it is likely directly from the shoe company or agent, without the university needing to be involved.
And there you have the reason that Duke and K will likely escape unscathed from all of this.
 

For sure. But that’s what makes this whole FBI case interesting. Their whole case rests on the agent being a booster. That’s all five level 1’s for Kansas. If this goes through that won’t be a possible excuse anymore.


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[323SGrant]

This isn’t something Dook just started doing recently. They’ve played the game for at least 20 years. Are people still this naive to believe Dook can land top players just because of their name? Kids (see: handlers) would rather play at an LSU and get paid than going to Dook to play for free.

Scouts will find talent whether their at Dook or a DePaul/Creighton.


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I believe Duke has been cheating for years, just as some other schools have.


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[Bigred3588]

20 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

This isn’t something Dook just started doing recently. They’ve played the game for at least 20 years. Are people still this naive to believe Dook can land top players just because of their name? Kids (see: handlers) would rather play at an LSU and get paid than going to Dook to play for free.

Scouts will find talent whether their at Dook or a DePaul/Creighton.


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Bingo. Coach K may be better at shielding himself that some other coaches, but there's no doubt in my mind that he plays the game. Anyone remember Lance Thomas being sued for jewelry he purchased while he was a student at Duke? How do people think a college kid could afford a $30,000 down payment that was made before his senior season ended? Or how about the time Coach K was caught making contact with a player outside of the permissible time frames. Naturally, because it's Coach K and Duke, the NCAA swept the Thomas situation under the rug and suspended punishment for the recruiting violation until they had a chance to change the recruiting time frames. Coach K walked away unscathed after committing the same type of violation that turned our program upside down.

[Stuhoo]

26 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

For sure. But that’s what makes this whole FBI case interesting. Their whole case rests on the agent being a booster. That’s all five level 1’s for Kansas. If this goes through that won’t be a possible excuse anymore.


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The Kansas thing (if I read correctly) is significantly buttressed by Self and his assistant having real, proven knowledge of the shoe company payments. That's why I'm thinking that the scumbag Will Wade is in deep kimchee. 

So many of the five star kids are getting paid, but the smart programs will avoid major penalties by staying completely out of the payment discussions.

 

[Brass Cannon]

5 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

The Kansas thing (if I read correctly) is significantly buttressed by Self and his assistant having real, proven knowledge of the shoe company payments. That's why I'm thinking that the scumbag Will Wade is in deep kimchee. 

So many of the five star kids are getting paid, but the smart programs will avoid major penalties by staying completely out of the payment discussions.

 

That’s thing that gets me. Self and Wade aren’t going to get punished(if they do) for cheating. They will basically be punished for be cocky about it. 

[AKHoosier]

For everyone thinking Duke and Coach K will be unharmed by all this, aren't there new rules that forbid coaches from claiming ignorance?

I thought that was the reason Pitino was going to be hammered by the NCAA since he's the leader of the program, and anything that goes on within the confines of the team, you are ultimately responsible for.

So even if coach K knew nothing about Zion's housing and cash gifts from agents or shoe companies, Duke can still be hammered since it took place at his program.

[HoosierAloha]

For everyone thinking Duke and Coach K will be unharmed by all this, aren't there new rules that forbid coaches from claiming ignorance?
I thought that was the reason Pitino was going to be hammered by the NCAA since he's the leader of the program, and anything that goes on within the confines of the team, you are ultimately responsible for.
So even if coach K knew nothing about Zion's housing and cash gifts from agents or shoe companies, Duke can still be hammered since it took place at his program.

I believe the infraction against Pitino is level II. He’s basically going to be told he was bad and should sit in the corner for a few minutes.


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[mdn82]

 
The Kansas thing (if I read correctly) is significantly buttressed by Self and his assistant having real, proven knowledge of the shoe company payments. That's why I'm thinking that the scumbag Will Wade is in deep kimchee. 
So many of the five star kids are getting paid, but the smart programs will avoid major penalties by staying completely out of the payment discussions.
 

The only thing I am unsure of is they knew explicit player xxx was going to receive xxx amount. I thought that was going to be the battle. There is enough up for interpretation and let’s be real, they both knew why the other was on the phone. I just don’t why the NCAA won’t put a rule in place to keep runners/bag men away from programs. Why would the people involved to this point need access to a Bill Self? To me that’s where the violation should be. The person would of course change in the future, but it’s ok for rules to evolve.


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[Stuhoo]

4 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

The only thing I am unsure of is they knew explicit player xxx was going to receive xxx amount. I thought that was going to be the battle. There is enough up for interpretation and let’s be real, they both knew why the other was on the phone. I just don’t why the NCAA won’t put a rule in place to keep runners/bag men away from programs. Why would the people involved to this point need access to a Bill Self? To me that’s where the violation should be. The person would of course change in the future, but it’s ok for rules to evolve.


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Hard to devise a rule to keep "runners/bag men" away from programs. 

Care to define "runners & bag men?"

 

[mdn82]

 

Hard to devise a rule to keep "runners/bag men" away from programs. 

Care to define "runners & bag men?"

 

Anyone that is a “Consultant” with a shoe company. Why do they have to work through a head coach? Why can’t they go through an AD. Within that relationship there should be parameters. There shouldn’t be 24/7 access to a program for a man whose whole job is relationship management. 100/100 times you will end up with situations like this. If all they are worried about is legitimately branding that can easily be maintained at a higher level. Coaches aren’t allowed to exclusively have final decisions on those things. Phone records could easily sift through that. If there are communications needed you can easily do a virtual meeting that can log that information at the coach level.

 

 

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[Stuhoo]

9 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

Anyone that is a “Consultant” with a shoe company. Why do they have to work through a head coach? Why can’t they go through an AD. Within that relationship there should be parameters. There shouldn’t be 24/7 access to a program for a man whose whole job is relationship management. 100/100 times you will end up with situations like this. If all they are worried about is legitimately branding that can easily be maintained at a higher level. Coaches aren’t allowed to exclusively have final decisions on those things. Phone records could easily sift through that. If there are communications needed you can easily do a virtual meeting that can log that information at the coach level.

 

 

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Now define "consultant."

I get your point and it'd be nice, but the NCAA has a very small investigative staff and it would be darn near impossible to find the affiliations of someone who is not on a shoe company's official employee payroll.

Besides, "runners and bagmen" frequently meet with cousins, friends, and distant hangers on of players away from any scrutiny. That's why the FBI's case was relatively successful; they were able to make law enforcement approved calls which proved intent. The NCAA has very little ability to do that.