TOM CREAN FIRED

[Uspshoosier 45,222]

legal terms are not the death penalty. Our penalties were given by our own university and that's it. I was actually proud that our university did that but the death penalty equates to forbidding us to play the season in its entirety plus no schlarships to athletes for at least an entire year. SMU got the death penalty we did not. We choose to slow play to stability to start off fresh ( which is fine with me) but other programs like Syracuse and probably Louisville chose a different path.

Regardless of the term used Were your expectations that first year to compete for a national title with the roster that iu rolled out on the court? Because for me I knew it would be bad but I didn't know how bad until after the Maui trip and then after the back to back home losses to northeastern and lipscomb I figured we wouldn't win another game. Hell I was surprised that we won a game in the B1G and actually looked respectable against better teams

[mdn82 25,510]

In an ideal world Stevens would tell us "sure, I'm coming" before hand, but the world isn't ideal.  You want to have your cake and eat it too, that doesn't happen either.  I think it's more likely we'd have to go into it with the mindset that we're going to get our man because failure isn't an option.

EDIT:  When Ainge boarded a flight to meet with Stevens he hadn't already been told "sure, I'm coming".  He got on the flight thinking he'd have to fight to get his man.

They also had an opening a time that made sense. We would not. As a fan and alum I can honestly say if they fired Crean after this year I would know it's Stevens. If not? It would probably be the most disappointing action I have seen in my lifetime from the athletic department.

[mdn82 25,510]

legal terms are not the death penalty. Our penalties were given by our own university and that's it. I was actually proud that our university did that but the death penalty equates to forbidding us to play the season in its entirety plus no schlarships to athletes for at least an entire year. SMU got the death penalty we did not. We choose to slow play to stability to start off fresh ( which is fine with me) but other programs like Syracuse and probably Louisville chose a different path.

Edit - plus we were not denied television revenue or blacked out from tv.

Strong sanctions better? We were not allowed to play in the postseason and there was pressure from above to eliminate the "culture" Sampson had created. That was abundantly clear to alum, season ticket holders, and boosters at the time. We were well aware of what the first few years would be like. Boosters wanted it that way. That is why record donations came in at a time the program was so down. We were fully aware it wasn't going to be a quick fix. That is why I equated it to the death penalty. The third year was the first year I was disappointed.

By the way. Kicking off some of the players off of our team made it so we didn't have a postseason ban. The two kind of go hand in hand. No?

[Bittersince87 209]

Regardless of the term used Were your expectations that first year to compete for a national title with the roster that iu rolled out on the court? Because for me I knew it would be bad but I didn't know how bad until after the Maui trip and then after the back to back home losses to northeastern and lipscomb I figured we wouldn't win another game. Hell I was surprised that we won a game in the B1G and actually looked respectable against better teams

But we chose to do that , Syracuse chose not to and are playing for a final four. I agree with u about the first year though but other programs with bigger blows dealt with it and had continued success in there second year. The guy used 5 years to state his case. under his contract coach Crean had 8. Under your logic he had 7 years . I don't mind if you want to keep coach Crean just don't misinterpret information to sway a point of view. We were nowhere close to a death penalty.

[Bittersince87 209]

Strong sanctions better? We were not allowed to play in the postseason and there was pressure from above to eliminate the "culture" Sampson had created. That was abundantly clear to alum, season ticket holders, and boosters at the time. We were well aware of what the first few years would be like. Boosters wanted it that way. That is why record donations came in at a time the program was so down. We were fully aware it wasn't going to be a quick fix. That is why I equated it to the death penalty. The third year was the first year I was disappointed.

By the way. Kicking off some of the players off of our team made it so we didn't have a postseason ban. The two kind of go hand in hand. No?

We were allowed to play in the postseason, we just weren't good enough to make it.

Again that was our choice but that was part of the plan. U really think a coach is going to say " hmmm u hired coach Crean and payed him for eight years but the fans only think five--- I think I'm going to turn down this 3-5 dollar a year contract. So improper." Not really a smart move don't you think?

[mdn82 25,510]

But we chose to do that , Syracuse chose not to and are playing for a final four. I agree with u about the first year though but other programs with bigger blows dealt with it and had continued success in there second year. The guy used 5 years to state his case. under his contract coach Crean had 8. Under your logic he had 7 years . I don't mind if you want to keep coach Crean just don't misinterpret information to sway a point of view. We were nowhere close to a death penalty.

We had to kick players off of our team as part of our sanctions to minimize the failure to monitor penalty. I won't misinterpret information if you know more information. Deal? Maybe then you will understand I am not misinterpreting, it is just not information you previously knew. Fair...

[mdn82 25,510]

We were allowed to play in the postseason, we just weren't good enough to make it.

Lol ok. I give. Let's have all of our team get kicked off in April to not get a postseason ban and then in turn say "we just weren't good enough for it." You are right. The NCAA didn't have that idea in their heads as part of the discipline. I mean, Coach K could pull a team together starting from scratch in April to make the tournament right? You are right. Better?

[Uspshoosier 45,222]

But we chose to do that , Syracuse chose not to and are playing for a final four. I agree with u about the first year though but other programs with bigger blows dealt with it and had continued success in there second year. The guy used 5 years to state his case. under his contract coach Crean had 8. Under your logic he had 7 years . I don't mind if you want to keep coach Crean just don't misinterpret information to sway a point of view. We were nowhere close to a death penalty.

In your opinion which is fine and I never said I wanted to keep or get rid of a coach and I haven't misinterpreted any info. I have said many times I have no problem if people want to hold the first 2 years against him as a coach I personally do not. The 3rd year gets no pass from me in my opinion while I didn't think we would be in contention for any titles I thought we would of been more competitive

[mdn82 25,510]

Since you added the extra and said it was choice I will agree to an extent. As part of our self imposed penalties we kicked off players who had failed multiple drug test and failed classes. If we had not done that we get postseason bans. We went above what they would have done due to outside pressure to turn our program personality back into what it once was. As an alum I am sure you understand and respect that.

[mdn82 25,510]

In your opinion which is fine and I never said I wanted to keep or get rid of a coach and I haven't misinterpreted any info. I have said many times I have no problem if people want to hold the first 2 years against him as a coach I personally do not. The 3rd year gets no pass from me in my opinion while I didn't think we would be in contention for any titles I thought we would of been more competitive

As I said in a previous post I think that third year was his worst coaching job. We absolutely should have been at least 7 or 8 games better which is a lot.

[mdn82 25,510]

I think his 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 7th have been underachieving in some shape or form. The 5th will get passes for outright and Sweet16 although I expected more. We cannot have the dips going forward like we had after Zeller left. If that is the case I hope we look elsewhere.

[Bittersince87 209]

In your opinion which is fine and I never said I wanted to keep or get rid of a coach and I haven't misinterpreted any info. I have said many times I have no problem if people want to hold the first 2 years against him as a coach I personally do not. The 3rd year gets no pass from me in my opinion while I didn't think we would be in contention for any titles I thought we would of been more competitive

Fair enough sir I understand your perspective and this rationality. I apologize if I sounded disrespectful. It's the practical person in me that says no one is going to turn down a 3-5 million dollar a year offer just because a coach just got five, six, or seven years to rebuild the program. It's business and nothing more ( except to us fans of course).

[Bittersince87 209]

Since you added the extra and said it was choice I will agree to an extent. As part of our self imposed penalties we kicked off players who had failed multiple drug test and failed classes. If we had not done that we get postseason bans. We went above what they would have done due to outside pressure to turn our program personality back into what it once was. As an alum I am sure you understand and respect that.

I do. I completely agree with that decision. I was proud of our school . I hate no loathe how other schools don't care (UNC). What message does that send to your student body " don't care just cheat to get yours "?

[mdn82 25,510]

Fair enough sir I understand your perspective and this rationality. I apologize if I sounded disrespectful. It's the practical person in me that says no one is going to turn down a 3-5 million dollar a year offer just because a coach just got five, six, or seven years to rebuild the program. It's business and nothing more ( except to us fans of course).

It's good discussion man. That's why this is here. I do feel like the split in this topic is decreasing though. There is more understanding from both sides of the other. It sometimes gets hard on a subject like this cause it's hard to judge intent when discussing without being face to face. Cheers!

[HoosierAloha 30,024]

Fair enough sir I understand your perspective and this rationality. I apologize if I sounded disrespectful. It's the practical person in me that says no one is going to turn down a 3-5 million dollar a year offer just because a coach just got five, six, or seven years to rebuild the program. It's business and nothing more ( except to us fans of course).

Job security is also part of the equation. If you're in a secure job making 3 mil/year and a job comes open that offers 4 mil/year but isn't stable do you take it?

[MadAboutIndiana 402]

I think his 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 7th have been underachieving in some shape or form. The 5th will get passes for outright and Sweet16 although I expected more. We cannot have the dips going forward like we had after Zeller left. If that is the case I hope we look elsewhere.

If that is the case, Indiana *will* look elsewhere; right?

I do find it interesting that so many people view that 2012-13 season as disappointing.

And honestly--are there that many people that really think "should tom crean be fired?" is a legitimate conversation right now? Shouldn't that talk be pretty much dead by now? Why is this dream of kicking Crean to the curb to beg Stevens still being talked about? Not gonna happen, other than a dream

[Bittersince87 209]

Job security is also part of the equation. If you're in a secure job making 3 mil/year and a job comes open that offers 4 mil/year but isn't stable do you take it?

For five years 15-20 million I could live with that . Can't you?

[Uspshoosier 45,222]

Fair enough sir I understand your perspective and this rationality. I apologize if I sounded disrespectful. It's the practical person in me that says no one is going to turn down a 3-5 million dollar a year offer just because a coach just got five, six, or seven years to rebuild the program. It's business and nothing more ( except to us fans of course).

No need apologize for your opinion I didn't think You were disrespectful at all just a different view We are all here for the same reason the love for this basketball program. I enjoy and respect other people's opinion who have a passion and different views on iu basketball . It's always good to see things from a different perspective

[JSHoosier 19,852]

36 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

They also had an opening a time that made sense. We would not. As a fan and alum I can honestly say if they fired Crean after this year I would know it's Stevens. If not? It would probably be the most disappointing action I have seen in my lifetime from the athletic department.

I'm just trying to see if posters on this board are willing to be proactive about getting a great coach, and not sit around and hope someone comes calling.

I've said he's earned one more year but that's it.  It took more than one season for the fans to get to this point, so the leash shouldn't be much longer because of one season either.

[mdn82 25,510]

If that is the case, Indiana *will* look elsewhere; right?

I do find it interesting that so many people view that 2012-13 season as disappointing.

And honestly--are there that many people that really think "should tom crean be fired?" is a legitimate conversation right now? Shouldn't that talk be pretty much dead by now? Why is this dream of kicking Crean to the curb to beg Stevens still being talked about? Not gonna happen, other than a dream

I feel as though that season was disappointing for a few reasons. We were more talented than the majority of teams we faced that season we lost to. We peaked I felt in the end of November into early December. It is up to the coach to keep the pulse of the club and make adjustments for the benefit of his team. We were talented enough to win the B1G but struggled down the stretch into both tournaments. The Syracuse game as bad is was wasn't our low point. That was the Illinois game IMO. For starters we completely fell apart in the second half against an overmatched team. But still should have won. That out of bounds play was a bigger kick in the nuts than the Syracuse game to me.