TOM CREAN FIRED

[Bittersince87 209]

Final Four or fired? Woof.

Once every eight to nine years is not asking much especially for 3 million a year. If we expect less , we deserve to never win a national championship.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Once every eight to nine years is not asking much especially for 3 million a year. If we expect less , we deserve to never win a national championship.

Look, a Final Four would be great, but I'm more concerned about year-over-year consistency. A Final Four this year could just be a flash in the pan after two seasons where we bottomed out. 

 

Did you know there are only 27 active coaches in college basketball that have been to the Final Four? Crean is one of them (so are our previous two coaches, excluding Dakich, oddly enough...). Only 11 have been more than once. If Crean makes it to another Final Four, he'd join the likes of Bill Self, Thad Matta, Larry Brown, and Bob Huggins with two a piece. Calipari and Boeheim(!!!) for all their years of coaching and winning have only been four times a piece. Then you have the truly elite coaches Izzo (7), Pitino (7), Roy Williams (7), and Coach K (12) demonstrating complete dominance over extended careers. 

 

It takes special teams coached by special coaches to make it to the Final Four. Crean has demonstrated that he can be the caliber of coach to get to a Final Four, but do you really believe this team is Final Four caliber? I'd say it's a stretch that that would be a realistic expectation.

 

So, if a coach who has done what only 26 other active coaches, two of which we've already burned through, is to be fired for not making the Final Four, who do we replace him with? Without viable options like a Brad Stevens who has the potential to become elite like an Izzo or a Coach K, you're most likely going to hire another guy who has a flash in the pan run at a Final Four, but fails to consistently get you there.

[Brass Cannon 24,222]

With our resources a final four is not to much to ask for. Notice how most of the blue bloods have somebody who has been multiple times? That's because that's how it should be.

[Uspshoosier 45,024]

With our resources a final four is not to much to ask for. Notice how most of the blue bloods have somebody who has been multiple times? That's because that's how it should be.

a stat that stood out to me is that Iu(8) is actually 3rd in the big 10 for most final 4 appearances behind Ohio st(10) and Michigan st(9)

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

With our resources a final four is not to much to ask for. Notice how most of the blue bloods have somebody who has been multiple times? That's because that's how it should be.

Yes, luckily for those programs, since 1990 they've had:

 

Program - Coach (Final Fours w/ Program)

 

Duke - Coach K (12)

Kansas - Roy Williams (4)  and Bill Self (2)

Kentucky - Rick Pitino (3)  and John Calipari (4)

North Carolina - Dean Smith (4) and Roy Williams (3)

 

UCLA has had a rough go of late, but had Howland (3) made a good run in the 2000's.

 

Since the 90's, Indiana has had:

 

Bob Knight (1)

Mike Davis (1)

Tom Crean (0)

 

Outside of us and UCLA, the four other Blue Bloods have hired and retained elite caliber coaches. Indiana has not. Every coaching hire that isn't an elite caliber coach puts us another three to four years out from the right hire. 

[biteoftheapple 4,115]

The same can be said for staying with a coach, who is known not to be elite.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

The same can be said for staying with a coach, who is known not to be elite.

If we continue to extend him, yes. As of right now, Crean is essentially year-to-year, pending the availability of an elite caliber coach. Right now, there doesn't really seem to be any available, and seeing as only 11 active coaches have gone to multiple Final Fours, essentially what this fanbase will demand, there is an extremely limited supply of coaches that should be considered qualified to be hire by Indiana

[Brass Cannon 24,222]

If we continue to extend him, yes. As of right now, Crean is essentially year-to-year, pending the availability of an elite caliber coach. Right now, there doesn't really seem to be any available, and seeing as only 11 active coaches have gone to multiple Final Fours, essentially what this fanbase will demand, there is an extremely limited supply of coaches that should be considered qualified to be hire by Indiana

While only 11 who have done it there are quite a few more who could potentially do it with our resources. If Crean Flames out this year and Illinois starts sniffing around Drew it would be wise to cut our losses. I'd rather give somebody new 3-4 years and find out if they are the guy than to stick with Crean who can't be the guy.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

While only 11 who have done it there are quite a few more who could potentially do it with our resources. If Crean Flames out this year and Illinois starts sniffing around Drew it would be wise to cut our losses. I'd rather give somebody new 3-4 years and find out if they are the guy than to stick with Crean who can't be the guy.

Drew, who has never been to a Final Four? Who has never coached in a Power 5 conference?

I understand your sentiment, but our resources can't make a coach elite. Drew seems awfully promising, but no matter what, an unproven coach (I'll define that as no Final Four appearances) has pretty unfavorable odds of becoming a consistent Final Four coach (elite).

Legitimately, there are about three or four coaches in the NCAA right now that have done what Indiana fans want Crean to have done over the past five to six years.

[HoosierAloha 30,024]

Drew, who has never been to a Final Four? Who has never coached in a Power 5 conference?

I understand your sentiment, but our resources can't make a coach elite. Drew seems awfully promising, but no matter what, an unproven coach (I'll define that as no Final Four appearances) has pretty unfavorable odds of becoming a consistent Final Four coach (elite).

Legitimately, there are about three or four coaches in the NCAA right now that have done what Indiana fans want Crean to have done over the past five to six years.

 

After Durant and Westbrook leave for bigger markets Billy D might be looking for a move too.  I would welcome a coach with two titles in a heartbeat.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

After Durant and Westbrook leave for bigger markets Billy D might be looking for a move too. I would welcome a coach with two titles in a heartbeat.

All in for this. If Indiana is making a move, it needs to be someone like Billy Donovan, Brad Stevens, etc. Coaches who have coached in a major conference and have gone to the Final Four. Everyone else is just another potential Crean.

[Brass Cannon 24,222]

I'd rather have a guy who has never coached in a power 5 and see what he can do than stick with a guy we know we can't get what we want from. But I have always maintained Stevens and Donovan are the guys we call first. Everybody pray the thunder fall apart.

[Chips&Dipo 1,464]

Look, a Final Four would be great, but I'm more concerned about year-over-year consistency. A Final Four this year could just be a flash in the pan after two seasons where we bottomed out. 

 

Did you know there are only 27 active coaches in college basketball that have been to the Final Four? Crean is one of them (so are our previous two coaches, excluding Dakich, oddly enough...). Only 11 have been more than once. If Crean makes it to another Final Four, he'd join the likes of Bill Self, Thad Matta, Larry Brown, and Bob Huggins with two a piece. Calipari and Boeheim(!!!) for all their years of coaching and winning have only been four times a piece. Then you have the truly elite coaches Izzo (7), Pitino (7), Roy Williams (7), and Coach K (12) demonstrating complete dominance over extended careers. 

 

It takes special teams coached by special coaches to make it to the Final Four. Crean has demonstrated that he can be the caliber of coach to get to a Final Four, but do you really believe this team is Final Four caliber? I'd say it's a stretch that that would be a realistic expectation.

 

So, if a coach who has done what only 26 other active coaches, two of which we've already burned through, is to be fired for not making the Final Four, who do we replace him with? Without viable options like a Brad Stevens who has the potential to become elite like an Izzo or a Coach K, you're most likely going to hire another guy who has a flash in the pan run at a Final Four, but fails to consistently get you there.

This is really interesting information. Good research and thank you!

[Chips&Dipo 1,464]

I'd rather have a guy who has never coached in a power 5 and see what he can do than stick with a guy we know we can't get what we want from. But I have always maintained Stevens and Donovan are the guys we call first. Everybody pray the thunder fall apart.

To your first sentence, how has that worked out for Illinois?

[biteoftheapple 4,115]

To your first sentence, how has that worked out for Illinois?

How did it work in the cases of Knight and Coach K? Or Donovan, or Boeheiem?

[X-Hoosier 529]

Look, a Final Four would be great, but I'm more concerned about year-over-year consistency. A Final Four this year could just be a flash in the pan after two seasons where we bottomed out.

Did you know there are only 27 active coaches in college basketball that have been to the Final Four? Crean is one of them (so are our previous two coaches, excluding Dakich, oddly enough...). Only 11 have been more than once. If Crean makes it to another Final Four, he'd join the likes of Bill Self, Thad Matta, Larry Brown, and Bob Huggins with two a piece. Calipari and Boeheim(!!!) for all their years of coaching and winning have only been four times a piece. Then you have the truly elite coaches Izzo (7), Pitino (7), Roy Williams (7), and Coach K (12) demonstrating complete dominance over extended careers.

It takes special teams coached by special coaches to make it to the Final Four. Crean has demonstrated that he can be the caliber of coach to get to a Final Four, but do you really believe this team is Final Four caliber? I'd say it's a stretch that that would be a realistic expectation.

So, if a coach who has done what only 26 other active coaches, two of which we've already burned through, is to be fired for not making the Final Four, who do we replace him with? Without viable options like a Brad Stevens who has the potential to become elite like an Izzo or a Coach K, you're most likely going to hire another guy who has a flash in the pan run at a Final Four, but fails to consistently get you there.

Crean has showed where a once in a lifetime talent can take you.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

How did it work in the cases of Knight and Coach K? Or Donovan, or Boeheiem?

Once again, those four were huge successes. How many other programs thought they were hiring a coach like them, and ended up with a dud? Indiana should not be messing around offering another 5 year, multi-million dollar contract to someone who got hot at a MVC/WCC caliber team and maybe made a small run as a Cinderella in the tournament. Five years from now, we'll have a "Fire Coach ____ Thread" discussing the same "do we stay, or do we go" scenarios.

 

If Crean can close out the season strong, perform well in both tournaments, at least we know we're getting a coach that can bring us moderate success while we look for the elite coach Indiana wants. Or maybe Crean, being a coach who has actually coached his team to a Final Four, does it at Indiana, making him one of 12 active coaches in college basketball to have coached multiple Final Four teams. It really becomes difficult to justify a firing at that point, unless Brad Stevens were available.

[Brass Cannon 24,222]

To your first sentence, how has that worked out for Illinois?

He hardly had the same resume as Drew does. And I never said its not a gamble. But Crean is the equivalent of betting on black and red. At best we break even with him.

[Brass Cannon 24,222]

Once again, those four were huge successes. How many other programs thought they were hiring a coach like them, and ended up with a dud? Indiana should not be messing around offering another 5 year, multi-million dollar contract to someone who got hot at a MVC/WCC caliber team and maybe made a small run as a Cinderella in the tournament. Five years from now, we'll have a "Fire Coach ____ Thread" discussing the same "do we stay, or do we go" scenarios.

If Crean can close out the season strong, perform well in both tournaments, at least we know we're getting a coach that can bring us moderate success while we look for the elite coach Indiana wants. Or maybe Crean, being a coach who has actually coached his team to a Final Four, does it at Indiana, making him one of 12 active coaches in college basketball to have coached multiple Final Four teams. It really becomes difficult to justify a firing at that point, unless Brad Stevens were available.

So 3 more years of mediocrity is preferable to potentially finding the next great IU coach and giving him a 3 year interview?

[X-Hoosier 529]

Once again, those four were huge successes. How many other programs thought they were hiring a coach like them, and ended up with a dud? Indiana should not be messing around offering another 5 year, multi-million dollar contract to someone who got hot at a MVC/WCC caliber team and maybe made a small run as a Cinderella in the tournament. Five years from now, we'll have a "Fire Coach ____ Thread" discussing the same "do we stay, or do we go" scenarios.

If Crean can close out the season strong, perform well in both tournaments, at least we know we're getting a coach that can bring us moderate success while we look for the elite coach Indiana wants. Or maybe Crean, being a coach who has actually coached his team to a Final Four, does it at Indiana, making him one of 12 active coaches in college basketball to have coached multiple Final Four teams. It really becomes difficult to justify a firing at that point, unless Brad Stevens were available.

So one season should be why we keep him? Notv the other 7 that have shown he can't build a consistent winner? He couldn't do it at Marquette and he can't do it here. You have to look at v the body of work and his isn't good enough. It isn't even close.