Post-Butler Frustration Thread

[Beachfront Property 619]

Why does DD get much better low post position that Bryant? I think it is because DD has a much larger posterior.

 

[Beachfront Property 619]

This is going to be a really challenging game for us. Tom Crean's teams have traditionally struggled in grind it out, slowed down, slug fests. The closest thing we have had this year was the FW game.

Other teams we always seem to play poorly against - Wisconsin and Penn State.

That is why this game scares me. I think Butler will try to keep the game in the 60's.

[Class of '66 Old Fart 87,792]

3 minutes ago, Beachfront Property said:

Why does DD get much better low post position that Bryant? I think it is because DD has a much larger posterior.

 

Certainly helpful but also as others have pointed out, TB really isn't all that muscular/big in his lower body and thus more difficult for him to hold his ground down low.  And after 2 summers in our weight/strength regimen, I think it's doubtful that TB will develop in his lower body.  Just not going to be in his genetic make-up.

[Stuhoo 85,601]

8 minutes ago, Beachfront Property said:

Why does DD get much better low post position that Bryant? I think it is because DD has a much larger posterior.

 

 

That, and DeRon knows how to use it. DeRon Davis is a true old-school, back to the basket, low post big man. A rare and valuable commodity these days, and we've got him for at least a few years. Pretty soon, teams are going to start double-teaming him on the low block. DeRon also passes the ball and sees the court extremely well, and our three point shooters are going to be huge beneficiaries.

And I am glad.

 

[Str8Hoosiers 2,965]

To me there are a few key differences in TB & DD as far as getting the ball down low in the post.

1.) Defensive Game-plans.... Other teams are aware of TB and are doing everything possible to keep him out of the low post. When DD is in there other teams are frequently deploying a different defense or at the very lease a different defender (giving their main big guy rest the same time TB is getting rest).

2.) Patience - TB wants the ball and doesn't care where he gets it, his post up only lasts a second and then he flairs out to the wing, Guards don't even have a chance to get him the ball down low. DD on the other hand fights hard for post position and keeps the seal, guards (and TB when he has the ball on the wing) have ample time to feed him.

TB is always cutting out towards the perimeter instead of ducking into the paint... if there is traffic he runs away from the traffic instead of just stepping in front of the traffic and staying down low. 

Butlers size (or lack there of) is another opportunity for TB to play down low but I am already ready to scream at the tv when TB is in and praise DD all game long.

[WayneFleekHoosier 49,856]

I have a nervous confidence for this game. Same way I did when I attended the Zeller/Butler loss. That game gives me nightmares.

I do think I'm a jinx. Attended the Butler loss, IPFW loss, and when UK beat us 80-41.

This should be the best Crossover yet, all 4 teams legitimately good, although I think Butler will end up being the worst once conference games start. That roster isn't too great.


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[Str8Hoosiers 2,965]

2 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I have a nervous confidence for this game. Same way I did when I attended the Zeller/Butler loss. That game gives me nightmares.

I do think I'm a jinx. Attended the Butler loss, IPFW loss, and when UK beat us 80-41.

This should be the best Crossover yet, all 4 teams legitimately good, although I think Butler will end up being the worst once conference games start. That roster isn't too great.


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HAHA I feel like I am the opposite.... Seems like every game I go to is a victory... even back in the bad years... in 2010/2011 I went to the Michigan & Minnesota games, 2 of our 3 conference wins that year..... Michigan a couple years ago (for the Oladipo dunk that wasn't), Michigan St the year before that i believe....

It is a running joke around our house about it... It works for Football too, I am a Buffalo Bills fan so wins are few and far between, this year I went to Buffalo for the Arizona game, (we won), and I went to Cincinnati for the Bengals game (we won).

 

So anytime you get tickets in the future, just go ahead and send them to me...  

[HoosierAloha 30,092]

Butlers size (or lack there of) is another opportunity for TB to play down low but I am already ready to scream at the tv when TB is in and praise DD all game long.

I've noticed this as well. TB doesn't seem to get low in the post and when he jumps. He's more of a glider than a jumper.

[moonjaws 21]

At this point I see the guys playing hard,sharing the ball,rebounding their butts off,d'ing up hard as I've seen under Crean.We have great depth,If we get Colin back even better.The "bug-a- boo". as I've said before,THE TURNOVERS.They make us just another team hurts us helps opponents.I love this team and their potential to be special.

[OliviaPope40 7,116]

7 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I have a nervous confidence for this game. Same way I did when I attended the Zeller/Butler loss. That game gives me nightmares.

I do think I'm a jinx. Attended the Butler loss, IPFW loss, and when UK beat us 80-41.

This should be the best Crossover yet, all 4 teams legitimately good, although I think Butler will end up being the worst once conference games start. That roster isn't too great.


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The only reason I resent the Zeller/Butler loss is because my parents decided to buy a new TV and when we were setting it up we didn't realize it was on energy saver. I also was not a fan on not having CWat and Zeller on the floor when we needed them in those last few minutes

[Miller'sTheMan 1,652]

A chance to add another quality win, Butler doesn't look like a top 25 team on paper, but they routinely outplay their talent. We should win, but nothing would surprise me in this game.

[BubbleKnuts 569]

21 minutes ago, Crean'sTheMan said:

A chance to add another quality win, Butler doesn't look like a top 25 team on paper, but they routinely outplay their talent. We should win, but nothing would surprise me in this game.

They look pretty good according to my eye test, but there's no reason we can pull out a win. They have a lot more question marks depth wise and skill wise. We rebound well and hit at least 40% behind the arc we should win easily.

[Hovadipo 59,553]

Nothing is ever easy against the grittiest, scrappy, junkyard dog, coaches' sons in all the land.


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[Stuhoo 85,601]

8 hours ago, Hovadipo said:

Nothing is ever easy against the grittiest, scrappy, junkyard dog, coaches' sons in all the land.


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Pretty much the ultimate unstoppable force of Hoosier awesomeness, they are. I am extremely concerned for the emotional security and safety of our team, and our loved ones. They may just steal not only the ball, but also our hearts and our name by the time this game is over. Sob, shiver, weep.

 

 

[Stuhoo 85,601]

 

I have taken the liberty of showing you just how gritty a gang of Hoosier Hills schoolyard players this Big East Butler team is!

Below are the hard-scrabble, picket fence-running, biscuit and gravy eatin' hometowns of each Butler player that averages more than ten minutes per game this season. As you can see, a full 20% of their rotation players come from the great State of Indiana! Look out for them Hoosier country boys:

 

Butler Bulldogs Roster

BUTLER BULLDOGS
NO	NAME	POS	HT	WT	CLASS	HOMETOWN
0	Avery Woodson	G	6-2	190	SR	Waynesboro, MS
1	Tyler Lewis	G	5-11	170	SR	Statesville, NC
2	Paul Jorgensen	G	6-2	185	JR	New City, NY
3	Kamar Baldwin	G	6-0	170	FR	Winder, GA
4	Tyler Wideman	F	6-8	240	JR	Schererville, IN
11	Kethan Savage	G	6-3	205	SR	Fairfax, VA
22	Sean McDermott	G	6-6	190	FR	Anderson, IN
30	Kelan Martin	F	6-7	220	JR	Louisville, KY
45	Andrew Chrabascz	F	6-7	230	SR	Portsmouth, RI
51	Nate Fowler	C	6-10	240	SO	Cincinnati, OH

[Stuhoo 85,601]

 

And, in fairness, for comparison here are the hometowns of our ten minutes + per game gang of carpet-bagging mercenaries that descended upon our beloved Hoosier team and turned it into a national, globalist, tofu loving, east coast/west coast inner city main stream media swilling Big Ten program. As you can see, only 20% of our rotation players come from the great State of Indiana:

 

Indiana Hoosiers Roster

INDIANA HOOSIERS
NO	NAME	POS	HT	WT	CLASS	HOMETOWN
0	Curtis Jones	G	6-4	175	FR	Richmond, VA
1	James Blackmon Jr.	G	6-4	200	JR	Marion, IN
2	Josh Newkirk	G	6-1	195	JR	Raleigh, NC
3	OG Anunoby	F	6-8	235	SO	Jefferson City, MO
4	Robert Johnson	G	6-3	195	JR	Richmond, VA
11	Devonte Green	G	6-3	186	FR	North Babylon, NY
13	Juwan Morgan	F	6-8	230	SO	Waynesville, MO
15	Zach McRoberts	G	6-6	200	SO	Carmel, IN
20	De'Ron Davis	F	6-10	240	FR	Aurora, CO
31	Thomas Bryant	C	6-10	255	SO	Rochester, NY

 

[Stuhoo 85,601]

 

However, in fairness to our Butler friends, only a measly three out of five Indiana Hoosier players who don't average ten minutes per game are from the State of Indiana, while a full (and impressive) two out of four Butler players who don't average ten minutes per game are proud to hail from the great State of Indiana. 

Moreover, only three Butler players come from the East coast, while a full four (count 'em, four!) IU players are from the East coast.

Additionally, Butler has a real, live Indiana native in their starting five, while sadly, we only have one from Indiana in ours.

IN SUMMARY: Butler has an impressive four out of fourteen Indiana natives on their player roster (28.5%!!), while sadly, we have sold out our program to outsiders; only five out of fifteen (33%) of our team was raised in the Hoosier State (though Timmy P was also born there ;)

 

[ALASKA HOOSIER 11,302]

Following a six-day layoff, Indiana returns to the floor on Saturday against No. 18 Butler in the Crossroads Classic at Bankers Life Fieldhouse in Indianapolis.

The Bulldogs are 9-1 and are coming off a 75-65 win over Cincinnati last Saturday at Hinkle Fieldhouse. The game will be broadcast at 5 p.m. ET on the Big Ten Network with Brian Anderson and Shon Morris on the call:

The Crossroads Classic, now in its sixth season, will feature four ranked teams for the first time. It’s a complete sellout and the atmosphere should be terrific in one of the best venues anywhere for hoops.

The Hoosiers have had plenty of ups and downs in the Crossroads Classic, but are looking for their third straight win in the event. Two years ago, Indiana was excellent down the stretch in a nine-point win over Butler. Last season, Indiana overcame a 16-point deficit to beat Notre Dame, a win that was viewed by many as a turning point in the season.

With wins over Kansas and North Carolina already in the bag, Indiana is looking for another non-conference win that will matter come March. Butler already owns wins over Northwestern, Arizona, Vanderbilt, Utah and Cincinnati and a win over the Hoosiers would make its current resume even stronger heading into Big East play.

MEET THE BULLDOGS

Two Butler players average in double figures – Kelan Martin and Andrew Chrabascz – but it’s clear who the primary offensive option is. Martin, a 6-foot-7 junior from Louisville, had a very good sophomore season, but has struggled a bit this season.

He’s a high usage, average efficiency player who is streaky. Martin’s 17.7 points per game leads the team, but his splits aren’t overly impressive right now. He’s making 34.9 percent of his 3s and 48.7 percent of his 2s. Here’s a graphic on the five possession types that are most common for Martin through Butler’s first 10 games:

The question with Martin isn’t if he’s going to score (he’s been in double figures every game), but rather how many shots he’s going to take to get there. He’s shot 50 percent or better just three times in 10 games and has three games below 40 percent.

The other pieces of the Butler offense are what makes this a top 20 offense a third of the way through the season. The aforementioned Chrabascz, a 6-foot-7 senior, is the second Bulldog averaging in double figures at 11 points per game.

Chrabascz is taking over 42 percent of his shots at the rim and he’s finishing 53 percent. He’s hitting just 34.2 percent of his 2-point jumpers, but 55.6 percent of his 3s. In 22 post-up possessions, he’s scored 21 points, which is good but not great. The Rhode Island native does a nice of getting to the line with a free throw rate (FTA/FGA) of 54 percent. Chrabascz is shooting 78 percent from the foul line.

Tyler Wideman, a 6-foot-8, 240 pound junior, primary operates offensively in three areas: post-ups, as the roll man in pick-and-roll and cuts to the basket. Of his 65 offensive possessions, 45 of them fall into those three categories. Over 79 percent of his shots are coming at the rim and he’s making 77.1 percent. He’s also Butler’s best offensive (11.6 OR%) and defensive (19.7 DR%) rebounder.

Rounding out the frontcourt rotation is Nate Fowler, a 6-foot-10 sophomore. In limited attempts, Fowler is shooting 73.9 percent on 2s and has made three of his four attempted 3-point shots. Freshman Joey Brunk, a former Indiana recruiting target, isn’t in the rotation at this point.

Butler’s backcourt is strong despite the losses of Roosevelt Jones and Kellen Dunham. Tyler Lewis, a McDonald’s All-American who transferred from North Carolina State, is in his second season at the point for Chris Holtmann. Lewis is 35th in the country in assist rate (36.5 percent) and has been Butler’s most efficient player so far. He’s making 47.4 percent of his 3s, a ridiculous 72.4 percent of his 2s and 72 percent from the foul line.

Freshman Kamar Baldwin started against Cincinnati, but typically comes off the bench. Baldwin has scored efficiently, but doesn’t get many assists nor does he get to the foul line. He’s turnover prone (24.5 TO%), but an excellent defender. The 6-foot Baldwin is fourth in the country in steal percentage.

Avery Woodson, a graduate transfer from Memphis, is a capable 3-point shooter (41.8 percent) who doesn’t turn it over (4.8 TO%). Sean McDermott, a 6-foot-6 redshirt freshman from Pendleton Heights, is hitting 44 percent of his 3s in a low usage role. McDermott is using less than 12 percent of possessions while on the floor.

Kethan Savage, a 6-foot-3 guard who sat out last season as a transfer from George Washington, has appeared in just six games after an illness sidelined him to begin the season. His effective field goal percentage (23.1 percent) is the lowest of any player in the rotation.

TEMPO-FREE PREVIEW

There are plenty of similarities on the profiles of Indiana and Butler, but there are two clear areas worth watching.

Turnovers are a problem for Indiana on both ends. The Hoosiers are committing them at a high rate and aren’t forcing many on defense. Butler, meanwhile, is one of the top 20 teams in the country in terms of taking care of the ball and is in the top 25 in terms of turnovers forced.

Where Indiana has a chance to really hurt Butler is on the glass. Indiana is an elite offensive rebounding team and above average on the defensive glass. The Bulldogs are above average on the defensive boards as well, but are just 220th nationally in offensive rebounding.

WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO

The KenPom projection is Indiana by 1 with a 53 percent chance of a Hoosier win. Sagarin likes Indiana by 2.5 and the Vegas line won’t be out until Friday afternoon.

OG Anunoby is expected to play, which should give Indiana a major boost defensively and with the different lineups it will be able to deploy. With Anunoby healthy, the Hoosiers have four legitimate frontcourt bodies to mix and match and a significant size advantage up front.

Butler will likely try to play at a slower pace, so it’s important for Indiana to start well to avoid a grind it out halfcourt game. While it’s not as simple as “take care of the ball and win” for the Hoosiers, the turnover numbers will play a significant factor. That’s not to say that IU can’t turn it over 20 times and still win, but the Hoosiers would likely need a hot shooting performance to do so.

From the Butler perspective, finding ways to get Martin open looks will be crucial. Indiana will probably rotate Anunoby, Juwan Morgan and Robert Johnson on him throughout the game. The Bulldogs also need to keep Indiana off of the offensive boards, which few teams have been able to do.

With just 12 days until the start of Big Ten play, this is a prime opportunity to learn more about the progress the Hoosiers have made over the last couple of weeks, which have been made up primarily of practice and getting Anunoby healthy.

[Alford Bailey 12,826]

Butler will make it ugly and we will help with turnovers. If we limit turnovers and hit a respectable % from three we should win by 8-10.

[mdn82 25,782]

I think the IPFW style of game will help us in this one.


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