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I really hate to stir things up here, but what exactly did Crean do last night to deserve the let's fire Crean talk?? I just don't get it. Am I saying he's the man to take us to the promised land? No. I'm just saying you can't fire coaches left and right and BUILD a winning program which was a complete dumpster fire not more than 6 years ago.   Look at last night. You can complain about his x's and o's all you want. His sub patterns, whatever. This teams problem is TURNOVERS. Plain and simple. There were 18 last night and what, like, 4 in the final 2 minutes? How many did Crean have? 0. Our three best players, Yogi, Noah and Will accounted for 10 of those 18. So, what should Crean do? Give them a seat on the bench? Well, everybody crapped their pants when he put Marlin, Howard and the gang on the floor. He was booed. Now what? I'm sure he's not teaching to turn the ball over in practice so what should he do???   All IU fans need to realize this team isn't any good, yet. They could be in a year or too, but not this year. The immediate impact talent, other than Noah, is just not there. The Movement, outside of Yogi, was a flop. Our back up center transferred mid season. How many of these guys would start, or even get significant playing time on Mich. St, Michigan or Iowa? And as much as we like to point to 27 year old banners and puff our chests out, kids today do not see IU as elite, yet. How many of these superstar freshman of this class were we really in the mix for? You can not rebuild an image in 6 years that took 15 destroy.   Like I said, I am NOT suggesting that Crean is the next Knight or Wooden. What I am saying is that as of now I litterally think he is doing the best with what he has.

Coming late to the party here, but I wanted to jump in and give my two cents on the #firetomcrean bandwagon.   It's a very clear cut case of Talent vs. Coaching.  I would argue that this group is pretty talented.  Saying they "aren't very good yet" is a complete cop-out to the facts.  Noah, Troy, Yogi, Stan, Sheehey is a starting 5 that half the teams in the league would salivate over.  These guys are really good (see - Wisconsin, Michigan).     So let's now turn our attention to Coaching.  In more then 20 occasions we can all say while watching a game we've made this statement "Why is ______ on the bench", "Why has ______ sat out for almost 8 minutes?"  This is bad coaching, subbing out for someone who just made a great steal, block, or shot is a horrible way to manage a game.  Another point here is our inability to inbound the ball, garnish points out of timeouts, play to win the game (not to hold the ball for shot clock violations), and break a press.  Those are fundamentals of coaching that I just don't see in Crean.   Do I think Crean was the right guy for the job?  YES!  He brought a passion and fan base back to it's feet after being punched in the mouth.  Do I think that we will EVER win a NC under Crean.  Personally - NO.  Inevitably they will be matched up against a team that will throw something at him that we can't handle or coach our way out of.  I want him to succeed here, but enough is enough.  This team is TOO TALENTED to keep having these games against bottom dweller teams.

Hey, some familiar faces here :). What's up? So, I've historically been a bit of a Crean defender. That has been changing as this season has developed. There are a lot of things I haven't liked this year, and some of them are philosophical. So, I'm starting to board the train. If we completely collapse down the stretch here and Vonleh leaves, then I'm fully on board. I think if Vonleh stays (which he'd be crazy to do since we never pass to him) then you have to give Crean next year with Yogi, NV and JB2. It would be a really good team and, and he can compete with that team. There's never a good time, but you'd be forcing NV to leave and JB2 to ask for a release.

I figured our fans would be more knowlegeable and not so ignorant about something like this. People tend to look at the negatives and not the positives. Did you honestly expect much more this year with all of our new freshman and lack of expirence????? Crean brought this program back to a level the not anyone wouldve thought of. Not only that, he brought us back quicker than what we expected. Be happy with the team that we have and players that know what it means to wear "Indiana" across their chests. They're a young team that is being developed day by day from coach crean and his staff. Next year will be a different year with more expierence and even more talent.

    I got out couched last night too. Soon to be ex no. 17 crashed there before I could. I had to take the bed. Oh well, her dog still loves me

[quote name="Buck Naked" post="37879" timestamp="1392296105"]I really hate to stir things up here, but what exactly did Crean do last night to deserve the let's fire Crean talk?? I just don't get it. Am I saying he's the man to take us to the promised land? No. I'm just saying you can't fire coaches left and right and BUILD a winning program which was a complete dumpster fire not more than 6 years ago. Look at last night. You can complain about his x's and o's all you want. His sub patterns, whatever. This teams problem is TURNOVERS. Plain and simple. There were 18 last night and what, like, 4 in the final 2 minutes? How many did Crean have? 0. Our three best players, Yogi, Noah and Will accounted for 10 of those 18. So, what should Crean do? Give them a seat on the bench? Well, everybody crapped their pants when he put Marlin, Howard and the gang on the floor. He was booed. Now what? I'm sure he's not teaching to turn the ball over in practice so what should he do??? All IU fans need to realize this team isn't any good, yet. They could be in a year or too, but not this year. The immediate impact talent, other than Noah, is just not there. The Movement, outside of Yogi, was a flop. Our back up center transferred mid season. How many of these guys would start, or even get significant playing time on Mich. St, Michigan or Iowa? And as much as we like to point to 27 year old banners and puff our chests out, kids today do not see IU as elite, yet. How many of these superstar freshman of this class were we really in the mix for? You can not rebuild an image in 6 years that took 15 destroy. Like I said, I am NOT suggesting that Crean is the next Knight or Wooden. What I am saying is that as of now I litterally think he is doing the best with what he has.[/quote]Well said I think they just always like to have someone to blame if it's not Crean it will be the next coach. They just can't accept the situation for what it is. So it's gotta be CTC's fault. Makes me not even want to come on here and read this crap so much negativity but I like your post Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

[quote name="Buck Naked" post="37879" timestamp="1392296105"] Look at last night. You can complain about his x's and o's all you want. His sub patterns, whatever. This teams problem is TURNOVERS. Plain and simple. There were 18 last night and what, like, 4 in the final 2 minutes? How many did Crean have? 0.[/quote] First off, I agree with your overall message. The hate right now has built up over the last few years piece by piece. I would argue that Crean did have turnovers in the last 2 minutes. Not running good enough inbounds plays, offensive sets should lead straight to Crean. Maybe he drew up perfect plays and the team just didn't execute them, who knows. Clearly the team choked last night, but a lot of that falls on Crean in my opinion. He got out couched last night in the last 5 minutes of the game. That's hard for anyone to deny. There were 3 instances towards the end of the game where Crean called a timeout to set up a play and we turned it over on the inbounds on two of those. That's getting out coached 100% right there. I agree you don't fire him based off of last night or just this season. It's just a trend that isn't looking good. Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

  Personally, I've never been a fan of Crean.  I honestly didn't like the hire when we made it and he was our 3rd/ 4th option from what I've been told.  He had Dwayne Wade, Got his Final Four and that pretty much sums him up.   Given the position we were in, he has turned out to be an INCREDIBLE hire for Indiana.  Now that the rebuilding efforts are over, it's time for Indiana to keep winning.  We just don't seem to be doing that right now.   Therefore, I'm NOT on the Fire Tom Crean train yet because I don't think he deserves to be fired for what he's done at IU.  I view Indiana Basketball for what it is... not elite.   Hate to say it, but back to back Sweet 16s might not be that low of a bar like we originally thought.  It's been 27 years since we've won a championship.   This is rambling, and I don't really know where my head is at right now. lol

[quote name="Hovadipo" post="28465" timestamp="1389141364"]Watch us lose to a couple Northwestern/Penn State/Nebraska's this year. Crean's cheeks might start getting a little toasty, if not from administration, IU fans as a whole. Not saying it would be right or wrong, just saying.[/quote] That is scary.... And we laughed at that less than a month ago Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

At the end of the day, Crean is the head coach and he is responsible.  Jeremy didn't get the inbounds pass in, Crean could've called a timeout just as easily as Jeremy did so you could say he's just as responsible   People say we have no shooters, well that means Crean went 3 years without recruiting one.  That is recruiting, it is 100% on Crean.  Although, we have players that were supposed to be able to shoot (Etherington, Hartman).  So it means he went 3 years without recruiting a player that fits his "I can't draw up a play to save my life so you have to create it yourself" street ball offense.  Which is again recruiting so 100% on Crean.  It's a poorly constructed team, recruiting is about more than getting kids to sign it's about building the team and so again that is 100% on Crean.   The offense consistently has 3 or 4 players standing around doing nothing but watching the ball handler.  Movement without the ball is basketball 101, you don't have to be talented or experienced to know how to do that and besides these players have been taught that their entire lives.  We're now in year 6 of seeing the same thing, which tells me the offensive scheme is to have multiple players standing around.  Which is again on Crean, it is his awful system in the first place.  We're in year 3 of not being able to feed the post and utilize a talented big, again it's a flaw of Crean's offensive system ('offensive' meant both ways).   He is the head coach, he is ultimately responsible for everything.  Saying "he's not turning it over" or "he's not missing the shots" is a short sighted cop out to avoid criticizing him.

I've read some interesting replys to my post and I have a couple of questions/replys: How do you teach not turning the ball over? What is the drill? As far as the inbounds plays, could it not be execution? Automatically the coaches fault that inbounds plays that probably worked with 2 NBA players last year won't work this year? How much patience should we have? I don't know. We waited 20 years for an out right B1G title, I can wait a few more. Sweet Sixteen loss to Syracuse? You do realize that the core of that team is one of only 2 undefeated teams left right? And a guy from The Movement can't sniff the floor.

[quote name="eddiejames" post="37892" timestamp="1392298812"]Coming late to the party here, but I wanted to jump in and give my two cents on the #firetomcrean bandwagon. It's a very clear cut case of Talent vs. Coaching. I would argue that this group is pretty talented. Saying they "aren't very good yet" is a complete cop-out to the facts. Noah, Troy, Yogi, Stan, Sheehey is a starting 5 that half the teams in the league would salivate over. These guys are really good (see - Wisconsin, Michigan). So let's now turn our attention to Coaching. In more then 20 occasions we can all say while watching a game we've made this statement "Why is ______ on the bench", "Why has ______ sat out for almost 8 minutes?" This is bad coaching, subbing out for someone who just made a great steal, block, or shot is a horrible way to manage a game. Another point here is our inability to inbound the ball, garnish points out of timeouts, play to win the game (not to hold the ball for shot clock violations), and break a press. Those are fundamentals of coaching that I just don't see in Crean. Do I think Crean was the right guy for the job? YES! He brought a passion and fan base back to it's feet after being punched in the mouth. Do I think that we will EVER win a NC under Crean. Personally - NO. Inevitably they will be matched up against a team that will throw something at him that we can't handle or coach our way out of. I want him to succeed here, but enough is enough. This team is TOO TALENTED to keep having these games against bottom dweller teams.[/quote] First off, welcome to the site. KILLER first post. You e set the bar high for your second post :) Now to business, I'm curious what your thoughts would be on Kentucky then. They won the National Championship, unloaded their entire team and wound up in the NIT the following season. Is that bad coaching too? They had more talent than this Indiana team, but found the NIT after a championship. I agree Crean has his issues, but youth of this team is a real thing. It's easy to get carried away with our team when we had guys start for 4 years in Hulls, Watford group. Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

Why I am off the Crean train: *poor x&o’s *momentum killing substitutions *does not learn from mistakes   Why I am not yet on the fire Crean train: *he may not be the right guy anymore, but he still deserves our respect *he is a good recruiter and runs a great program off the court *why get fired up about something that isn’t going to happen anytime soon   Why it isn’t going to happen anytime soon: *Glass is not going to fire Crean this year, nor next for that matter *No other program is going to lure Crean away *Crean is not going to resign   What I’m going to do about it: *dream about what James, Noah and Yogi might accomplish next year *not dream or scream about the unrealistic prospect of Stevens or Smart at IU next year *admire what Coach Miller is doing with the Women’s team…2-3 years away from being special!

Definitely not on it. I won't be suggesting anything until next year. If we only get to the sweet sixteen again next year then I'll consider. This is really his first bad year considering the talent he has currently. I'll admit that he's not the best coach and some of his rotations are very questionable but I don't think people realize how challenging it will be to just pick up someone better than him. And also you can't blame all of the losses on him. Some blame has to go on the players, not all of it, but some. It's very challenging to coach a team as young as this. Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

Interesting points. Here is the thing, Crean did recruit shooters. Gary Harris for one I can thing of. Didn't get him. Is that Crean's fault? Because a kid would rather play at a marque school like Michigan St. than IU? Kids today don't think of IU as an elite program. IU is their safety school now and we all have to get use to it.   His offense is no different than 90% of the offenses in college basketball. It relies on the talent of the individual because all the "5 Star" kids everyone has to get want their talents developed for the NBA. The NBA is an iso game for the most part. Kids don't want to play motion because it doesn't show off their "skills". This offense worked good enough last year to win IU's first outright title in the B1G in 20 years. Yes I keep bringing that up because it is something that is won over a period of months, not 3 weekends in March. It is the marathon, not the sprint which I find impressive.

[quote name="TomPritchard25" post="37983" timestamp="1392313330"]called it...[/quote] Lol wow. Forgot about this post. Go ahead and call me Hovstradamus. Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

Kentucky's best player went down with an injury too.  If he's healthy they still make the tournament.   People want to say "if we're not in the same bracket as Syracuse we're in the Final Four" as a way to defend Crean, it works there too.   I've said it before, I'll say it again.  Youth is only part of the problem, this team is poorly coached and constructed (which is part of recruiting, so it's on Crean completely).

    This was absolutely a great post.

[quote name="IU Hoosier41" post="37817" timestamp="1392264383"]Personally, I've never been a fan of Crean. I honestly didn't like the hire when we made it and he was our 3rd/ 4th option from what I've been told. He had Dwayne Wade, Got his Final Four and that pretty much sums him up. Given the position we were in, he has turned out to be an INCREDIBLE hire for Indiana. Now that the rebuilding efforts are over, it's time for Indiana to keep winning. We just don't seem to be doing that right now. Therefore, I'm NOT on the Fire Tom Crean train yet because I don't think he deserves to be fired for what he's done at IU. I view Indiana Basketball for what it is... not elite. Hate to say it, but back to back Sweet 16s might not be that low of a bar like we originally thought. It's been 27 years since we've won a championship. This is rambling, and I don't really know where my head is at right now. lol[/quote] I agree with all of this. Depending on how next year turns out, I'm not scheduled to board the train until next March or April. I don't think it's right to fire him this year, just one year removed from a second consecutive Sweet 16 (which hasn't been done since the 90s I believe) and a Big Ten regular season title. Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

I'm not on the fire Crean bandwagon.  That said he definitely needs to improve as a coach, and I have concerns if he can take us where we should expect to go.  We're at the point of the season where I expect to at least see signs of improvement, and it's just not happening and that's part of Crean's job as coach.

[quote name="Buck Naked" post="37972" timestamp="1392311493"]I've read some interesting replys to my post and I have a couple of questions/replys: How do you teach not turning the ball over? What is the drill? As far as the inbounds plays, could it not be execution? Automatically the coaches fault that inbounds plays that probably worked with 2 NBA players last year won't work this year? How much patience should we have? I don't know. We waited 20 years for an out right B1G title, I can wait a few more. Sweet Sixteen loss to Syracuse? You do realize that the core of that team is one of only 2 undefeated teams left right? And a guy from The Movement can't sniff the floor.[/quote] Awesome post! I had a crappy night at work, can I blame that on coach too? And as far as him being our fourth choice, how does anyone know? Once upon a time, I was told by a good source that Santa brought my presents. Turned out not to be true. Sent from my LG-E980 using BtownBanners mobile app

The big ten title combined with the total fade down the stretch, cutting down the nets for no reason, early exit in the BTT and total and complete embarrassment of a #1 seed in the NCAA make last year a total wash for me

Absolutely not.  Ask me again one year from now, I might have a different answer.  But for now, nope.  I will admit my confidence level in CTC is wavering a bit.  I know, just a bit?  I have learned to keep an even keel with my teams.  I'm disappointed in this season but I'm not losing my mind about it.  Winning the Big Ten outright last season earns him enough leeway for now that firing him is not on my radar.  Another season like this will definitely move my needle in a different direction.

Lifelong Cubs fan here. Whats your point?

    Why exactly won't it work to have both 4 year players and one and dones?

I haven't seen anything in the lines of growth with this team to indicate that next year is going to be much better. They still turn the ball over at an alarming rate, could argue they are worse at this now than what we saw at the outset of the season. The half-court offense is absolutely putrid on a nightly basis, some of this is philosophy by Crean and what he is teaching them. The other half comes from the players, and their lack of development has hurt. The defense has improved so there is that. Even if Noah comes back I don't see how things are just going to magically turn the corner, there haven't been many signs, or really any consistent signs, that this roster has shown growth to say they will be significantly better next season. 

  Agree to disagree. For the record, I am not a complete Crean apologist, just don't think we can fire him now or blame him for every hiccup.   Harris wasn't coming to IU.   And call me stupid, but I value a OUTRIGHT B1G title almost as much as a national championship. NCAA titles are crapshoots. Its all matchups, injuries, turn around time and seedings. Things all out of a teams control. A league title is won over a period of months. You play teams that know you. You can't trick them. Gimmicks won't work against them. Much harder to accomplish in my opinion.   While we are on Davis, it kind of proves my point. He won a tied (not OUTRIGHT) with " Knight's players", or so I'm told by folk on this board. When he was the main recruiter of talent, nothing. Kind of proves my point of talent and coaching.

I'm wondering your thoughts about something, JS...   You are putting everything on Crean in this post. While I agree he should share the blame, is it really his alone?    He recruited Victor and Cody, did he not? They left before their 4 years were up. That was their decision, probably not Crean's. Is he to blame for them leaving?   And if so, what are your thoughts on his oversigning? I know lots of people tend to get frustrated with it because they say it drives some players away. But then, he could just be trying to prepare for the loss of some players leaving for the draft or transferring, i.e. Mo and Remy.   Where do you see his responsibility in all of this? Food for thought

  100% agreed. I've defended him for the last time.

Crean isn't the answer here. Once you accept that fact, then the solution is simple. You let him go. This isn't and shouldn't be a case of where we were, or where we are by comparison. The only question should be, "Do you believe coach Tom Crean can win a championship at Indiana"? If the answer is "No", or "I doubt it", or even, "I'm not sure", then you have to move on from him. This isn't Purdue we're talking about, it's Indiana. Purdue bases their hires and retains on the "hope and wish" approach to life. When you've won multiple national championships as we have, you don't settle for "hope and wish"; you go after someone you KNOW will have damn good shot of bringing home another banner. Tom Crean has done all he can, and we ought to be thankful for taking us this far, but truthfully, this is as far as he's capable of taking us. He has stopped the bleeding and allowed many of us to feel good about IU basketball again, but his snake oil salesman pitches, and his rah rah chants have worn thin. Instead of listening to his weekly tripe, people are beginning to see that the product on the floor these days is simply not very good. 

[quote name="IU Hoosier41" post="37894" timestamp="1392301732"] [url="https://btownbanners.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=416"]ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1392301726.264435.jpg[/url] Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners[/quote] Reminds me of my grand theft auto days running over someone reversing over them again and then peeling out on them to get away from the cops. Brutal huh.

[quote name="BlueDevil2aHoosier" post="37888" timestamp="1392297760"]I agree with you man. He isn't doing a good job correcting the turnovers. His sub patterns are god awful and he looks lost in the second half of games. Hell he blames everyone but himself after the game.[/quote][attachment=416:ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1392301726.264435.jpg] Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

thank you!, i only read the first sentence and i didnt need to read any more, im sorry but those last few minutes were the players fault, especially wills inbound pass. The coach cannot control everything 

If I was him I'd leave just to get out of this clusterf*** of an offense. 

I know they went after Mark Few pretty hard too.

[quote name="triple" post="37854" timestamp="1392268557"][size=1][font=calibri]Why I am off the Crean train:[/font][/size] [size=1][font=calibri]*poor x&o’s[/font][/size] [size=1][font=calibri]*momentum killing substitutions[/font][/size] [size=1][font=calibri]*does not learn from mistakes[/font][/size] [size=1][font=calibri]Why I am not yet on the fire Crean train:[/font][/size] [size=1][font=calibri]*he may not be the right guy anymore, but he still deserves our respect [/font][/size] [size=1][font=calibri]*he is a good recruiter and runs a great program off the court [/font][/size] [size=1][font=calibri]*why get fired up about something that isn’t going to happen anytime soon[/font][/size] [size=1][font=calibri]Why it isn’t going to happen anytime soon:[/font][/size] [size=1][font=calibri]*Glass is not going to fire Crean this year, nor next for that matter[/font][/size] [size=1][font=calibri]*No other program is going to lure Crean away [/font][/size] [size=1][font=calibri]*Crean is not going to resign [/font][/size] [size=1][font=calibri]What I’m going to do about it:[/font][/size] [size=1][font=calibri]*dream about what James, Noah and Yogi might accomplish next year[/font][/size] [size=1][font=calibri]*not dream or scream about the unrealistic prospect of Stevens or Smart at IU next year[/font][/size] [size=1][font=calibri]*admire what Coach Miller is doing with the Women’s team…2-3 years away from being special![/font][/size][/quote] All of your dreams might be crushed if Noah packs up and leaves for the NBA

  Great to see you here BGleas, always great to see some long time posters!

  1. Tony Bennett 2. Sean Miller 3a. Mike Montgomery 3b. Tom Crean   or so i've been told.

Tony Bennett was the first option.  I heard recently, don't know if it's true or not, that Crean wasn't an option at all until Izzo called the athletic department.

Why am I starting to want to compare Crean with Romo.  Our team plays well/leads most of the game, then he/we somehow figure out a way to screw up AGAIN.   I'm hoping... HOPING, that he will prove me wrong and pull a Tom Coughlin by coming back off a season where people start to wonder if he should be fired with a title year, but I'm really beginning to doubt it...

I don't see us buying out his contract that is a lot of money and we just got a 40,000,000 donation and that is for the renovations. 

I could be completely wrong. But, Tony Bennett was a name that was tossed around a lot. 

I'm not surprised either, last season was lost because of injuries.  I'm still not over Mariano retiring, this feels like someone poured salt in a fresh would.   I'm already dreading what ceremony Boston has.  They'd better not ruin it like they did Mo's with their "Boston celebrating the Red Sox with a guest appearance by Mariano Rivera" self fellating.

This train will need a bigger engine if IU keeps playing like this. Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

I said at the beginning of the year, if we miss the tourney this year I am ready for the hot seat. Fail again next year, get a new coach. The rebuild was over 2 years ago and Indiana is a program that I fully expect in the tourney every year with at least a shot at making a national title run. I'm tired of seeing Ohio state, Michigan state, Wisconsin, having great teams year in and year out...obviously their system works for them to handle departures, transfers, injuries,etc... I like crean and want him to succeed, but he needs to start improving as a coach and in a hurry Sent from my SCH-I545 using BtownBanners mobile app

I think all of you that are wanting to fire crean have forgotten what he has done for the hoosiers since his hiring. Tom has brought the hoosiers out of the " dark era" please stop the negative thoughts. If yall are true hosier bball fans then you would know who and what we lost last year and that the young talent that we have will be even better next year... so all i need to say is... GET OFF OF TOM CREANS BACK AND SUPPORT HIM...He is the best coach we have had since Bobby Knight!!! Sent from my SCH-I535 using BtownBanners mobile app

Not yet. And don't want to be the "give him one more year guy", but think you give him next year's team. Hopefully with development from returning players, and if they are as good as what some of us think they can be then great. If he underachieves then I would not be completely opposed to looking elsewhere for the future of the program. I do like Crean, but recent play has just been so ugly to watch

Yeah, its a rough season, but I don't think that is the whole reason. I would be surprised if Crean ever exceeds what his teams attained in the last two years. I would love to see someone who can actually coach basketball, compete for titles, and has smart, solid teams, even if we never send another kid to the pros.