Todd Jadlow...and Bob Knight

[Josh]

 

I'm quite certain that no 18 year old and their parents would have knowingly consented to the alleged behavior by Bob Knight.

 

Can you imagine? 

Parents of a recruit: "Coach Knight, will you mentor and discipline my son with 'tough love'?"

Bob Knight: "Yes; and I will do so by squeezing their balls, cracking a clipboard over their head, flinging tampons and excrement at them, and mocking their insecurities and facial tics."

Parent: "Cool - tough love. Sign us up!"

 

PS: I'M NOT SAYING ALL OF THESE ALLEGATIONS ARE TRUE, OR THAT JADLOW DOESN'T HAVE AN ULTERIOR PROFIT MOTIVE. BUT...THERE DOES SEEM TO BE A MOUNTING BODY OF (CIRCUMSTANTIAL) EVIDENCE, + THE IRREFUTABLE REED VIDEO.

So in your opinion...why did Coach get so many intelligent recruits to play for him? They knew who he was and how he acted.

[Stuhoo]

13 minutes ago, Josh said:

So in your opinion...why did Coach get so many intelligent recruits to play for him? They knew who he was and how he acted.

 

I can only speculate:

• He was a fantastic basketball coach
• Recruiting back then largely consisted of an in-home visit and an offer; no OVs or extended processes. You got Coach Knight or Wooden in your living room saying "I want you to play for me"...and that was all she wrote.
• I'm reasonably certain that if a high, high end recruit visited a practice, RMK was not flinging tampons at players with parents watching. 
• Knight's recruiting suffered as he got older, and his transfer rate increased.
• Knight DID stress academics and discipline; an attractive pitch to most.
• A player that was belittled and potentially abused by Knight was probably scared sh_tless of him, and would not have been likely to speak to a recruit about it; imagine the Knight repercussions for doing so. Though I wouldn't be surprised if it quietly happened through back channels now and then.
• Recruits may have heard stories, but negative recruiting from other programs existed and they probably (rightly) took it with a grain of salt.

 

[Josh]

That seems fairly naive to me.

The stories were very public. Recruits and their parents knew them. They decided to play for him anyway.

That's what I mean by consenting adults.

[Stuhoo]

5 minutes ago, Josh said:

That seems fairly naive to me.

The stories were very public. Recruits and their parents knew them. They decided to play for him anyway.

That's what I mean by consenting adults.

 

Agree to disagree.

(If allegations are true), parents DID NOT know that their kids would physically and verbally abused to that extent.

 

[Josh]

 

Agree to disagree.

(If allegations are true), parents DID NOT know that their kids would physically and verbally abused to that extent.

 

I just don't think the parents were that naive. They knew it happened. They made their choice anyway.

I understand you didn't like it. With all due respect, it wasn't your choice.

Consenting adults. It was fine until the morality police threw their opinions into the ring.

We'll definitely have to disagree here. Thanks for the discussion.

[mdn82]

Obviously it wasn't fine or he wouldn't have been fired for abusive behavior once he quit winning. Damned morality police.


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[Dalton26]

Obviously it wasn't fine or he wouldn't have been fired for abusive behavior once he quit winning. Damned morality police.


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But it was clearly fine until that point. You can't be ok with it and let it slide while he's winning then claim you have morals and fire him when he stops winning. It doesn't work like that. I'm sure there were people that didn't agree with him or like him even when he was winning but I'd be willing to bet a vast majority did and once he stopped winning they decided to climb up on their high horse and pretend that they were never ok with it.

[Josh]

Obviously it wasn't fine or he wouldn't have been fired for abusive behavior once he quit winning. Damned morality police.


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That's right, the morality police fired him.

It wasn't his legion of loyal players or their parents. It was the people who were uninvolved with the program who voiced how they didn't like his tactics.

[Walking Boot of Doom]

35 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

I can only speculate:

• He was a fantastic basketball coach
• Recruiting back then largely consisted of an in-home visit and an offer; no OVs or extended processes. You got Coach Knight or Wooden in your living room saying "I want you to play for me"...and that was all she wrote.
• I'm reasonably certain that if a high, high end recruit visited a practice, RMK was not flinging tampons at players with parents watching. 
• Knight's recruiting suffered as he got older, and his transfer rate increased.
• Knight DID stress academics and discipline; an attractive pitch to most.
• A player that was belittled and potentially abused by Knight was probably scared sh_tless of him, and would not have been likely to speak to a recruit about it; imagine the Knight repercussions for doing so. Though I wouldn't be surprised if it quietly happened through back channels now and then.
• Recruits may have heard stories, but negative recruiting from other programs existed and they probably (rightly) took it with a grain of salt.

 

It's almost like maybe these players knew that Coach Knight was tough, maybe yelled a bit, threw some tantrums, but they respected him because he was one of the best basketball coaches in the world, and dammit, he wanted you to play for him. Then you got to campus and maybe realized some of his actions were a little more extreme then expected, but you assume maybe he was just in a bad mood; it won't happen again. Then it gets worse, but you still respect him because he's been looking after you and you're winning and becoming a better player, so you stick it out and don't say anything.

Literally the plot of every domestic abuse case in America.

The idea of anyone consenting to the alleged actions is difficult to imagine. I can't get behind someone who would treat others humans that way.

[Stuhoo]

10 minutes ago, Josh said:

That's right, the morality police fired him.

It wasn't his legion of loyal players or their parents. It was the people who were uninvolved with the program who voiced how they didn't like his tactics.

 

Like...Neil Reed. And Lawrence Funderburke. And Luke Recker. And Mike Giomi. And Jason Collier. And Delray Brooks. And others who were "un-involved with the program."

Do you really think the administration acted solely on the Reed video, and didn't have other player complaints?!? And you're calling me naive? Sigh.

 

 

 

[Walking Boot of Doom]

6 minutes ago, Dalton26 said:

 

But it was clearly fine until that point. You can't be ok with it and let it slide while he's winning then claim you have morals and fire him when he stops winning. It doesn't work like that. I'm sure there were people that didn't agree with him or like him even when he was winning but I'd be willing to bet a vast majority did and once he stopped winning they decided to climb up on their high horse and pretend that they were never ok with it.
 

 

Well... perfect example... Joe Paterno and Penn State.

He wasn't the only one who knew what was happenign, but they were winning and no one was about to blow the whistle and sink their elite program which was generating tens of millions of dollars for their school. Does that mean that people shouldn't one day realize that they were wrong and fix the situation?

People make take that exact course of action every single day. Like you said, you can't only find your morals when things stop going well, but that's often times how it plays out. Doesn't make the people shouting about morals any better. 

[Josh]

 

Like...Neil Reed. And Lawrence Funderburke. And Luke Recker. And Mike Giomi. And Jason Collier. And Delray Brooks. And others who were "un-involved with the program."

Do you really think the administration acted solely on the Reed video, and didn't have other player complaints?!? And you're calling me naive? Sigh.

 

 

 

Like I said earlier...show me any coach and I'll show you players who disliked him. This isn't unique to Coach Knight.

[Walking Boot of Doom]

Top story on ESPN NCAAM page.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/17889786/former-indiana-hoosiers-basketball-player-todd-jadlow-alleges-abuse-coach-bob-knight-memoir

Things may get interesting. Someone is eventually going to decide to start digging in to these allegations.

[Walking Boot of Doom]

15 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Top story on ESPN NCAAM page.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/17889786/former-indiana-hoosiers-basketball-player-todd-jadlow-alleges-abuse-coach-bob-knight-memoir

Things may get interesting. Someone is eventually going to decide to start digging in to these allegations.

Interestingly enough, Steve Alford went on record in the article and said all of these allegations are false. Not the first time he's turned a blind eye... http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/03/31/bernstein-ucla-hired-a-scumbag/#.UViRQ9zW1h0.twitter

[mdn82]

Interestingly enough, Steve Alford went on record in the article and said all of these allegations are false. Not the first time he's turned a blind eye... http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/03/31/bernstein-ucla-hired-a-scumbag/#.UViRQ9zW1h0.twitter

Not exactly the name of all of the players he had he probably wishes had his back.


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[HoosierAloha]

Are people really upset they had tampons thrown at them?  I might be a different kind of person that thinks verbal abuse (to me) is overrated.  You control your feelings and emotions and if they let someone get to you it's your fault.  I'm not excusing the behavior as I believe there are other more effective training methods.

[Alford Bailey]

It nothing to do with winning. It was a culture change. There was a huge change between when I graduated in 1991 to 2000. I was on the tail end of a culture that said things happen, move on with your life. My childhood would require a therapist these days but I show no ill effects. I dealt and moved on. Now we live in a culture where everyone is some sort of victim. Plus social media. Some of you guys are just too young to understand the way things were.

[Stuhoo]

5 minutes ago, Alford Bailey said:

It nothing to do with winning. It was a culture change. There was a huge change between when I graduated in 1991 to 2000. I was on the tail end of a culture that said things happen, move on with your life. My childhood would require a therapist these days but I show no ill effects. I dealt and moved on. Now we live in a culture where everyone is some sort of victim. Plus social media. Some of you guys are just too young to understand the way things were.

 

I'm a 1987 IU grad, and I understand the way things were.

In many respects, I'm glad they're not like that anymore.

 

[mdn82]

I for one am glad I never had a coach grab me by the balls. If that did happen.


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[Alford Bailey]

1 minute ago, Stuhoo said:

 

I'm a 1987 IU grad, and I understand the way things were.

In many respects, I'm glad they're not like that anymore.

 

We've improved in many ways and regressed in others. Honestly I'm sick and tired of Knight becoming a topic every 6 months in FREAKING 2016. Move on people.