Todd Jadlow...and Bob Knight

[Alford Bailey 12,356]

Knight went too far on many occasions. Many of his players were successful and credit Knight. It was a different time.Guys werent scarred for life because somebody yelled at them. Society reacted and moved way too far in the other direction. Now young people wont move out of their parents basement because they have a room full of participation trophys and the world is too tough. We need some of the toughness Knight brought without the ridiculous. 

[Stuhoo 79,802]

7 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

This is tough for me. I was raised on Knight. I remember hours of watching IU basketball on my grandfathers lap as a youngster. I remember him comparing every team to IU and Knight. I was that young boy who worshipped Knight and IU players. Damon Bailey was my idol. My grandfather taught me that nothing was given in life and everything was earned. Playing basketball in college was a pipe dream for me but if I would have been able to I wouldn't have played for anyone but Knight.

I guess the structured detail oriented approach led me to the military. Like Wayne above I went through hazing that would not be acceptable to the outsiders. I've been knocked unconscious and participated in hazing/initiating that many would frown upon. In my case it was an act that you had to give absolute trust and loyalty to your brothers. If they/I couldn't make it through simple hazing how could I trust them to have my 6.

I understand some of these tactics but it's troubling to read about them. The military breaks you down to raise everyone together. Knight implemented similar tactics and it absolutely worked. As players have said once you've played for Knight hell do anything for you. This is try through my experiences with my brothers. Sometimes it's better to leave things in the past and behind the curtains. I'm in no way saying it's right but it was effective.

Kids nowadays are absolutely soft. This might be the more political correct to raise kids but you learn more about yourself and your abilities when you are pushed over the edge.
 

Every generation going back to pre-historic times thinks that "kids are soft these days."

Don't believe me? I have an actual transcript of Cro-Magnum Mungf talking to his grandson, Caveman Brangh:

 

          Mungf: "Brgnngh mrgg MATDDCC nmmp Brangh klnckt!!" (translation: Brangh, you need to put down that spikeless club and beat your dead                             mastodon like a man.)

          Brangh: "Pssrrgh blrgh Grdbbc mlick oprd." (translation: Oh Grandpa, spiked clubs are sooooo mezzozoic.)

 

So there.

 

 

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Knight went too far on many occasions. Many of his players were successful and credit Knight. It was a different time.Guys werent scarred for life because somebody yelled at them. Society reacted and moved way too far in the other direction. Now young people wont move out of their parents basement because they have a room full of participation trophys and the world is too tough. We need some of the toughness Knight brought without the ridiculous. 

I could spend hours showing you examples of people from your generation who were weak simpletons, and examples of people in my generation who are as strong as anyone in history, but you could do the exact same thing. It's all hubris. Social media allows everyone to have a louder voice, thus you hear more of the "weak" voices.

Coincidentally, it's Bob Knight's birthday. Happy birthday!


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[Chips&Dipo 1,464]

I don't live in my parents basement, but I know kids that have to because the older generation screwed up things so bad that people have to graduate from college with a mortgage's worth of student loan debt. But sure, lets blame it on the fact that they got participation trophies when they were 7.

Edit: Also, who gave the trophies to those kids? I believe it was people from the same hard nosed generation as those who make those silly arguements.

[Dalton26 16,892]

If the current generation is so weak then wouldn't the blame be on the last generation for raising them that way? Its easy to say your generation was tougher blah blah blah but your generation was also the one that raised the current one so who's fault is it really? 

 

(FWIW I do agree that the current generation is soft with the safe space/dont offend anyone BS. Just presenting another side of the argument.)

[mdn82 25,510]

I think we as people are soft. I think experience in life situations make or break you. Age or generation doesn't matter as much as how much we try and protect our kids. Sometimes we do too much harm than good by trying to protect the ones we love by shielding them too much. It's easy to go overboard in either direction based on the individual child. IMO


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[HoosierAloha 30,024]

5 hours ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

 

I get pushing people to the edge of their physical abilities. Running sprints for hours because you played like **** makes sense. Squeezing players balls is sexual assault.

I really hate the kids nowadays are soft comments. Maybe it's true. But maybe we are creating a world where we try to lift everyone up instead of tearing them down to see how they can contribute to society. The need for the deconstruction of people through physical and emotional hardship makes sense in a militant environment where everyday could become a life or death situation and the objective of the training is to kill the enemy.

In sports that same mentality can be applied, but there are lines. RMK seemed to fail to understand where those lines were.


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I think it's absolutely true.  I believe some of it is the generation before not wanting to treat their kids how they were raised. 

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,982]

Interesting discussion. Some of Knights actions weren't ok in any generation. I do think "we" as a society are softer. Not necessarily generationally although that is likely true by association. "We" are much more politically correct to the point that we are likely overcorrecting. In some ways we've improved as a society and in some ways we haven't.

Media can be attributed or blamed for much of things, both social and national media. I've seen so many untruths and agendas within the local and national medias.

I'll stop while I'm ahead or before I bury myself. I could go on and on.....................


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[Beowulf50 816]

21 hours ago, Josh said:

One other thought if I may.  Players knew what they were getting into when they decided to play for Coach Knight.  It's not like he portrayed himself as a saint and then became an arsehole once they signed.

They knew he had a temper.  They knew his verbal games.  Most all of them wanted/needed it and are still happy to this day.  When one decides that he didn't like it decades later...there's some other angle.  Like trying to sell a book.

Coach told the parents and the players that he would be the toughest that they have ever seen. He has players who love him and players who hate him. Today in the PC correct world that we live in sure demonize the man. There are plenty of players who chose to be good people and not seek drugs as an out! 

I love the coach that he was for IU and that will never be taken away from me! 

[Beowulf50 816]

19 hours ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

I wasn't an IU fan (too young without Indiana ties) during Knights tenure. As a third party, it always surprises me how much people defend him. He's the kind of figure I'd want to distance myself from. That old guard, "by any means necessary" type figure. It's really sad to watch, just like it's sad to watch PSU fans defend Joe Patterno.


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Our coach did not let little boys get molested! No comparison! Very offensive by someone who does not know history! 

[Josh 12,569]

20 hours ago, RBB89 said:

A lot of those Knight stories have been confirmed over the years by other players. He's a jackass.

 

20 hours ago, RBB89 said:

The Daryl Thomas stuff has been out there since Season on the Brink. There's no defending that behavior from Knight.

That furthers my point.  It was very open what kind of coach Bob Knight was.  Yet he had a line of players who wanted to play for him.

Maybe you or I don't like it.  Maybe a lot of recruits didn't either.  But some did.  They wanted to play for him while knowing that's who he was.  Who are you or I to say they can't because he's a jackass?  It wasn't a secret what a jackass he was.  The players who signed to play for him obviously wanted that. 

[Stuhoo 79,802]

Our coach did not let little boys get molested! No comparison! Very offensive by someone who does not know history! 

Let me summarize:

Sandusky was pure evil.

Paterno was a pathetic enabler.

Knight was condescending and occasionally violent.

For my kid I would choose "none of the above."

[Josh 12,569]

1 minute ago, Stuhoo said:

 

Let me summarize:

Sandusky was pure evil.
Paternity was a pathetic enabler.
Knight was condescending and occasionally violent.

For my kid I would choose "none of the above."

 

And that's fair.  For some (like AJ Moye and Jared Jeffries), they did want that.  Who are we to say they can't have it?

* That Penn State/IU comparison is terrible.  Molestation vs toughen you up is not even close to a comparison.

[Beowulf50 816]

I was watching IU football recently and they had Antwaan Randle El on and asked him about playing basketball for coach.... he said that he loved the man! Antwaan was a hard working exceptional talent!

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Our coach did not let little boys get molested! No comparison! Very offensive by someone who does not know history! 

Sounds like he grabbed players by the balls which is sexual assault though, if the allegations are true. Not exactly an act I'd chose to stand behind because it "toughened up" the players.

The comparison was a fan base choosing to turn a blind eye to moral wrongdoings in support of winning.

The "as long as we win" attitude in college athletics is a dangerous one. See Penn State, UNC, Baylor, etc.

You can be offended by the comparison, and I'd expect anyone who grew up watching RMK coach to have a bias. Doesn't really make any of the crap he pulled ok, in my opinion.


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[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

And that's fair.  For some (like AJ Moye and Jared Jeffries), they did want that.  Who are we to say they can't have it?

* That Penn State/IU comparison is terrible.  Molestation vs toughen you up is not even close to a comparison.

The comparison was Bob Knight to Joe Paterno, not Sandusky. I understand your point though.

I'll still argue that all of the acts RMK allegedly committed still could easily amount to felony assault charges.

Different philosophies on life, I guess. Machiavellian "the end justifies the means" versus a moral approach.


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[Josh 12,569]

8 hours ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Different philosophies on life, I guess. Machiavellian "the end justifies the means" versus a moral approach.


 

That's not at all the philosophy I'm trying to convey.  Mine's more of a consenting adults, live and let live approach whereas yours is more of a morality police philosophy.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

That's not at all the philosophy I'm trying to convey.  Mine's more of a consenting adults, live and let live approach whereas yours is more of a morality police philosophy.

Adults consenting to being choked and allegedly sexually assaulted in order to be better basketball players?

We aren't going to see eye to eye, but a superior using physical and verbal abuse to motivate those below him is the basis for a lot of really terrible crimes.


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[Josh 12,569]

Adults consenting to being choked and allegedly sexually assaulted in order to be better basketball players?

We aren't going to see eye to eye, but a superior using physical and verbal abuse to motivate those below him is the basis for a lot of really terrible crimes.


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Yeah, it's odd to think about. As RBB said, these stories had been open about Coach for decades. Everybody knew who he was. Yet somehow, great recruits kept coming to play for him. Also, we had very intelligent players. Intelligent players who knew who he was, yet wanted to play for him.

Then the morality police decided they needed to enforce their morals on everybody.

Show me a coach, and I'll show you players who disliked him. That happens everywhere. The disdain for our coach despite having a long list of loyal players is concerning to me.

[Stuhoo 79,802]

2 hours ago, Josh said:

That's not at all the philosophy I'm trying to convey.  Mine's more of a consenting adults, live and let live approach whereas yours is more of a morality police philosophy.

 

I'm quite certain that no 18 year old and their parents would have knowingly consented to the alleged behavior by Bob Knight.

 

Can you imagine? 

Parents of a recruit: "Coach Knight, will you mentor and discipline my son with 'tough love'?"

Bob Knight: "Yes; and I will do so by squeezing their balls, cracking a clipboard over their head, flinging tampons and excrement at them, and mocking their insecurities and facial tics."

Parent: "Cool - tough love. Sign us up!"

 

PS: I'M NOT SAYING ALL OF THESE ALLEGATIONS ARE TRUE, OR THAT JADLOW DOESN'T HAVE AN ULTERIOR PROFIT MOTIVE. BUT...THERE DOES SEEM TO BE A MOUNTING BODY OF (CIRCUMSTANTIAL) EVIDENCE, + THE IRREFUTABLE REED VIDEO.