IF Yogi were to leave

[JG84 94]

If Yogi does leave, Rojo has some growth to achieve this summer. He has the tools to be good, maybe even great. We are going to need him to run the point well.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

The whole announcement for a projected 2nd rounder or worse, just rubs a lot of people the wrong way. It might be totally for his dad's foundation and that would still be a shame.

I agree. It rubs me the wrong way as well. But so does rushing to judge someone who has worked extremely hard for the program.

[yogisballin 2,376]

How do you know he's full of himself? Do you know him? You're making assumptions and sound ridiculous.

Ya know, might be making an assumption here. Just impression I get overall. Not ridiculous, just an opinion

[drewheck 749]

If yogi leaves we play bigger and are better on defense, I want him here but I feel like he would also try to do way to much to boost his draft status

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

I agree. It rubs me the wrong way as well. But so does rushing to judge someone who has worked extremely hard for the program.

People are only judging him for what he says he is doing and how it appears. If he'd just be mum about it and then announce it at the gala event, we would be a happy fan base and no one would be angry at Yogi about it.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

People are only judging him for what he says he is doing and how it appears. If he'd just be mum about it and then announce it at the gala event, we would be a happy fan base and no one would be angry at Yogi about it.

He has been completely mum about the situation. The only thing I've seen him say is that he's undecided and considering all options.

[Old Friend 8,389]

I agree. It rubs me the wrong way as well. But so does rushing to judge someone who has worked extremely hard for the program.

I think he's worked hard, but I'm not sure I agree it's been "for the program."    I think he wants to be an NBA player, and he's worked hard on doing NBA things....which in turn have not exactly done much "for the program."    He dribbles a LOT more than he did when he was a freshman on that really good team.  He does a lot more "creating" and doing things off the bounce than running or directing an offense.   He's a 42% career shooter (not very good for a player who shoots with his volume), and last season, he took 2x more shots than anyone else on the team save Sheehey (and that's a real statistic); while still taking a ton of shots - some very poorly timed - this season.  He hasn't grown as a point guard learning how and where team mates want the ball (see : he doesn't necessarily make his team mates better).    And he's still not a kid who sells out defensively to take away another point guard.  Yes, he's worked on his shot; yes he's fun to watch.....but if someone wanted to call him a little selfish and attention starved, I'd have a difficult time arguing against that.   He's not honestly done a lot to make IU better, but he's done a lot to make Yogi Ferrell better.   "For the program?"    Eh...not so sure.

[HoosierHoops1 5,024]

He has been completely mum about the situation. The only thing I've seen him say is that he's undecided and considering all options.

Announcing a date and putting it at an event at a steak house isn't being mum.

 

Anyway, just saying why some people are a little ticked. They want leadership and this doesn't feel like it

[incrediboy 926]

If Yogi leaves, we still have RoJo and JBJ (assuming he's not going somewhere). Both should improve with a year under their belts. We have plenty of 3-point shooters with Zeis and Colin and perhaps Morgan along with the aforementioned guards, plus look for Troy to work on his 3's this summer as Oladipo did during his off-season (not saying Troy is going to make that much progress, but it makes sense for him to work on that if he's going to be a lottery pick next year).

 

Of course, we'd be better with Yogi and his senior leadership, and for the life of me, I do not think a move to the NBA would make sense now for him. But if that's what he wants to do, I'll cheer for him to do well wherever he lands, IU will go on to Maui in the fall, and we'll have a pretty decent team . . . and some additional playing time for someone else and an available scholarship if Crean wants to bring in a PG.

[JSHoosier 20,434]

If Yogi leaves, we still have RoJo and JBJ (assuming he's not going somewhere). Both should improve with a year under their belts. We have plenty of 3-point shooters with Zeis and Colin and perhaps Morgan along with the aforementioned guards, plus look for Troy to work on his 3's this summer as Oladipo did during his off-season (not saying Troy is going to make that much progress, but it makes sense for him to work on that if he's going to be a lottery pick next year).

Of course, we'd be better with Yogi and his senior leadership, and for the life of me, I do not think a move to the NBA would make sense now for him. But if that's what he wants to do, I'll cheer for him to do well wherever he lands, IU will go on to Maui in the fall, and we'll have a pretty decent team . . . and some additional playing time for someone else and an available scholarship if Crean wants to bring in a PG.

We're still oversigned so if he left it'd just free a scholarship for Bryant as it stands now. We wouldn't have an extra scholarship, we'd be at the limit.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

I think he's worked hard, but I'm not sure I agree it's been "for the program." I think he wants to be an NBA player, and he's worked hard on doing NBA things....which in turn have not exactly done much "for the program." He dribbles a LOT more than he did when he was a freshman on that really good team. He does a lot more "creating" and doing things off the bounce than running or directing an offense. He's a 42% career shooter (not very good for a player who shoots with his volume), and last season, he took 2x more shots than anyone else on the team save Sheehey (and that's a real statistic); while still taking a ton of shots - some very poorly timed - this season. He hasn't grown as a point guard learning how and where team mates want the ball (see : he doesn't necessarily make his team mates better). And he's still not a kid who sells out defensively to take away another point guard. Yes, he's worked on his shot; yes he's fun to watch.....but if someone wanted to call him a little selfish and attention starved, I'd have a difficult time arguing against that. He's not honestly done a lot to make IU better, but he's done a lot to make Yogi Ferrell better. "For the program?" Eh...not so sure.

Honestly, I couldn't disagree with you more. The kid has sold out for the program. Did you not see how emotional he was when we lost? And how hard he fought at the end of close games? From last season to this season his scoring was down from 17.3 to 16.3 and his assists were up from 3.9 to 4.9. Clearly, he's gotten better as a distributor and finding his teammates. His assist percentage last year was actually better than during the 2012-2013 season. He's also improved his rebounding year-over-year from 2.8 to 3.0 to 3.2; that's not easy for a little guy. Also, the kid shoots almost as well from three as he does from inside the arc and his a career eFG% of 51.3%, has also increased every year. All of this is true, and his usage rate was 3% lower than last year at 23%.

Has Yogi worked to improve himself as a player to get to the NBA? Yes. But that does not mean he's also doing it for the program as well. Indiana is absolutely better because of him.

[Old Friend 8,389]

Honestly, I couldn't disagree with you more. The kid has sold out for the program. Did you not see how emotional he was when we lost? And how hard he fought at the end of close games? From last season to this season his scoring was down from 17.3 to 16.3 and his assists were up from 3.9 to 4.9. Clearly, he's gotten better as a distributor and finding his teammates. His assist percentage last year was actually better than during the 2012-2013 season. He's also improved his rebounding year-over-year from 2.8 to 3.0 to 3.2; that's not easy for a little guy. Also, the kid shoots almost as well from three as he does from inside the arc and his a career eFG% of 51.3%, has also increased every year. All of this is true, and his usage rate was 3% lower than last year at 23%.

Has Yogi worked to improve himself as a player to get to the NBA? Yes. But that does not mean he's also doing it for the program as well. Indiana is absolutely better because of him.

Interesting debate because there are a ton of directions to take it.   I like Yogi...always have.  I also see some "selfish" in him, and his record over two seasons, playing with a couple of other McD's all Americans (Vonleh and Blackmon) is 37-29 and they haven't won a post-season game.    Does he really make Indiana "better?"   Or is he just the best we have to offer?  (Yes, by the way)  Zeller made Indiana better.  Not sure I think Yogi does.  Yogi's production is slightly better than Verdell Jones', so I'll say if he makes Indiana "better" than another point guard would have, it would only be slightly.  He's who we have, and he's the best true point we have.  No question.  And he's terrific in transition.   I'd like to see his numbers when Indiana gets slowed down by an opponent.    And like I said, I like Yogi.  I do think he's worked hard.   But I don't think it's been "for the program."    And I'm not sure I expect many kids to sell out completely for the benefit of the program.    Yogi has done what most players do.  He's worked hard to improve parts of his game; and I simply think those parts have all been to benefit his chances as an NBA player; that's all.  I don't think he's spent much time on his defense or with his team mates figuring out how to better utilize them.  Any kid gets emotional when they lose.   I expect that from a competitive kid.   And his assist number?  Half an assist per game can also mean his team mates made more shots this season....and they did.   Like I said, lots of ways to take this and many ways to spin it.

 

I don't agree that he's any better as a distributor in the half court, but all I have is the eyeball test.   His numbers are what they are, and I don't have a breakdown of "transition numbers" vs. "half court numbers," but Indiana, when they're allowed to run, is a top 10 team in the country.    They were last season, too.  But..when they slow down, they grind to a halt.   Maybe that's Crean's offense...I've said that for a long time.  But I've also said I think Yogi takes a lot of ill-advised shots and over-dribbles.  Neither of those thoughts have changed.     What's an eFG%?   His career shooting percentage is 42%.   You can spin lots of numbers with saber metrics and they'll tell you losing Max Hoetzel is huge for Indiana.   

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Interesting debate because there are a ton of directions to take it.   I like Yogi...always have.  I also see some "selfish" in him, and his record over two seasons, playing with a couple of other McD's all Americans (Vonleh and Blackmon) is 37-29 and they haven't won a post-season game.    Does he really make Indiana "better?"   Or is he just the best we have to offer?  (Yes, by the way)  Zeller made Indiana better.  Not sure I think Yogi does.  Yogi's production is slightly better than Verdell Jones', so I'll say if he makes Indiana "better" than another point guard would have, it would only be slightly.  He's who we have, and he's the best true point we have.  No question.  And he's terrific in transition.   I'd like to see his numbers when Indiana gets slowed down by an opponent.    And like I said, I like Yogi.  I do think he's worked hard.   But I don't think it's been "for the program."    And I'm not sure I expect many kids to sell out completely for the benefit of the program.    Yogi has done what most players do.  He's worked hard to improve parts of his game; and I simply think those parts have all been to benefit his chances as an NBA player; that's all.  I don't think he's spent much time on his defense or with his team mates figuring out how to better utilize them.  Any kid gets emotional when they lose.   I expect that from a competitive kid.   And his assist number?  Half an assist per game can also mean his team mates made more shots this season....and they did.   Like I said, lots of ways to take this and many ways to spin it.

 

I don't agree that he's any better as a distributor in the half court, but all I have is the eyeball test.   His numbers are what they are, and I don't have a breakdown of "transition numbers" vs. "half court numbers," but Indiana, when they're allowed to run, is a top 10 team in the country.    They were last season, too.  But..when they slow down, they grind to a halt.   Maybe that's Crean's offense...I've said that for a long time.  But I've also said I think Yogi takes a lot of ill-advised shots and over-dribbles.  Neither of those thoughts have changed.     What's an eFG%?   His career shooting percentage is 42%.   You can spin lots of numbers with saber metrics and they'll tell you losing Max Hoetzel is huge for Indiana.   

The effective field goal percentage takes into account the added value of 3pt shots. 

 

On his assists, the increase from last year to this year, 3.9 to 4.9, can definitely be heavily attributed to the improved team shooting. But his assists per game with Watford, Zeller, Hulls, and Oladipo was 4.1 versus his 4.9 this year. That 2012-2013 team was one of the best offensive team in the country. Per KenPom, the adjusted offensive rating of the 2014-2015 team was 116.7, good for ninth in the country, versus the 2012-2013 team which was rated 117.9, good for third. Yogi increased his assists by close to an assist per game on a slightly less effective offensive team.

[HoosierD 504]

Interesting debate because there are a ton of directions to take it. I like Yogi...always have. I also see some "selfish" in him, and his record over two seasons, playing with a couple of other McD's all Americans (Vonleh and Blackmon) is 37-29 and they haven't won a post-season game. Does he really make Indiana "better?" Or is he just the best we have to offer? (Yes, by the way) Zeller made Indiana better. Not sure I think Yogi does. Yogi's production is slightly better than Verdell Jones', so I'll say if he makes Indiana "better" than another point guard would have, it would only be slightly. He's who we have, and he's the best true point we have. No question. And he's terrific in transition. I'd like to see his numbers when Indiana gets slowed down by an opponent. And like I said, I like Yogi. I do think he's worked hard. But I don't think it's been "for the program." And I'm not sure I expect many kids to sell out completely for the benefit of the program. Yogi has done what most players do. He's worked hard to improve parts of his game; and I simply think those parts have all been to benefit his chances as an NBA player; that's all. I don't think he's spent much time on his defense or with his team mates figuring out how to better utilize them. Any kid gets emotional when they lose. I expect that from a competitive kid. And his assist number? Half an assist per game can also mean his team mates made more shots this season....and they did. Like I said, lots of ways to take this and many ways to spin it.

I don't agree that he's any better as a distributor in the half court, but all I have is the eyeball test. His numbers are what they are, and I don't have a breakdown of "transition numbers" vs. "half court numbers," but Indiana, when they're allowed to run, is a top 10 team in the country. They were last season, too. But..when they slow down, they grind to a halt. Maybe that's Crean's offense...I've said that for a long time. But I've also said I think Yogi takes a lot of ill-advised shots and over-dribbles. Neither of those thoughts have changed. What's an eFG%? His career shooting percentage is 42%. You can spin lots of numbers with saber metrics and they'll tell you losing Max Hoetzel is huge for Indiana.

I quit reading this as soon as you said his production is slightly better than Verdell Jones.

[HoosierD 504]

If a player is working hard on their game to become an NBA player, then they are absolutely helping the program.

[moyemayhem 1,296]

If a player is working hard on their game to become an NBA player, then they are absolutely helping the program.

 

I'm not sure I agree with this...  We really got burned when Oladipo put in all that extra work to improve his shot and ball handling and then decided to leave after his junior year.  That was clearly a very selfish move by Victor to try and get to the NBA.

[Old Friend 8,389]

I quit reading this as soon as you said his production is slightly better than Verdell Jones.

Look at the numbers.   I did.  Sorry if facts offend you, but they are what they are.  Very similar FG%, Yogi averages a couple points a game more and assists over the career have been close.  Yogi is more exciting and a better ball handler; but his production?   Not as much more than Jones as you'd think.   I know nobody wants to hear that, but it is what it is.  

 

To your point about a player working hard on their game helping the program....Indiana is 37-29 over the last 2 seasons with Yogi, and haven't won a post season game.  How much is he really helping?  I know my comments here are unpopular and I'm sort of debating for the sport of it at this point, but take emotion out of it.    Is he really "helping" or is he just the guy in the seat right now?  Yogi is still 5'11."  He still isn't a very good defender, and he's still a very streaky shooter with a very average career shooting %.   I love the guy because he's ours; but the fact remains his numbers truly aren't that much better than Verdell Jones' were.   IU went to a sweet 16 without Yogi, and they went to one the next season with him.  Since then?   Not much to talk about....so honestly, how much better does he make IU than any point guard would have over the last 2 seasons?   And does it matter when we've had the record we've had?

[Old Friend 8,389]

I'm not sure I agree with this...  We really got burned when Oladipo put in all that extra work to improve his shot and ball handling and then decided to leave after his junior year.  That was clearly a very selfish move by Victor to try and get to the NBA.

Oladipo is a freak athlete and an elite defender.   He worked on the things he needed to work on in order to get to that next level, and in the process, helped Indiana.  We needed him to be a shooter, and he became one.   We needed him to be a second ball handler because Hulls was way too slow.  It so happened, those skills also made him a better NBA player.   Yogi is not an elite NBA athlete, and he's not a good defender.   He has worked on his ball handling and shooting, but those two things weren't necessarily what Indiana needed him to work on.    Big difference between Yogi and VO.   Love them both, but VO is absolutely an NBA caliber athlete and defender.  And he has length.  Yogi needs to be a far better defender than he is, and a better distributor than he is.   Yogi can be Travis Best and have a decent career at the next level.   But Best put lots of energy into defense..Yogi hasn't shown that yet.

[moyemayhem 1,296]

Look at the numbers.   I did.  Sorry if facts offend you, but they are what they are.  Very similar FG%, Yogi averages a couple points a game more and assists over the career have been close.  Yogi is more exciting and a better ball handler; but his production?   Not as much more than Jones as you'd think.   I know nobody wants to hear that, but it is what it is.  

 

To your point about a player working hard on their game helping the program....Indiana is 37-29 over the last 2 seasons with Yogi, and haven't won a post season game.  How much is he really helping?  I know my comments here are unpopular and I'm sort of debating for the sport of it at this point, but take emotion out of it.    Is he really "helping" or is he just the guy in the seat right now?  Yogi is still 5'11."  He still isn't a very good defender, and he's still a very streaky shooter with a very average career shooting %.   I love the guy because he's ours; but the fact remains his numbers truly aren't that much better than Verdell Jones' were.   IU went to a sweet 16 without Yogi, and they went to one the next season with him.  Since then?   Not much to talk about....so honestly, how much better does he make IU than any point guard would have over the last 2 seasons?   And does it matter when we've had the record we've had?

 

Let's ignore the higher career point totals and assist totals for Yogi (13.5 ppg, 4.3 apg) vs Verdell (11.5 ppg, 3.3 apg), and simply look at their comparative efficiencies over their careers:

 

eFG%: Yogi 51.3%, VJ3 45.7%

A/TO: Yogi 1.96, VJ3 1.14

 

The difference in the calibur of these two players is pretty massive.  Not only did Yogi put up larger raw numbers, but he did it while being a far more efficient player.  Additionally, in general Yogi's numbers have improved as his career progressed (PER: 13.0, 18.9, 21.7), while VJ3s declined (PER: 18.0, 16.8, 13.2).  By almost any metric Yogi is the better player, and when you combine everything together the difference becomes magnified.  In my opinion, comparing the two and saying they are not that different is WAY off base.

[NateNoel 84]

I'm not sure I agree with this... We really got burned when Oladipo put in all that extra work to improve his shot and ball handling and then decided to leave after his junior year. That was clearly a very selfish move by Victor to try and get to the NBA.

The sarcasm jumped off my screen with this one lol. I like it. Anyway sports is all a hype machine now so I don't blame a kid for hyping up his name some whether he is staying or going. I'm really ok no matter what he does. If he stays at IU then the team benefits but if he turns pro I mean you can't really blame anyone for that.