Upset with recruiting?

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

I wonder if we're going to be sorry we didn't get Derrik Smits. Yes, he's a 3-star but he's also an in-state 7-footer whose dad was a solid college and NBA player. Derrik doesn't have any "handler" or academic or off-the-court issues that I am aware of. He'll probably turn out to be a very good 4-year player for Valpo. I bet he'll see more game minutes in CBB than April ever will.

He's soft, and would not contribute to a level as a freshman that the fans demand. If Crean tried to play him, he'd be ruining him because he's not ready. If he doesn't play, Crean is an idiot for bringing a guy slowly without minutes. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[8bucks 6,453]

He's soft, and would not contribute to a level as a freshman that the fans demand. If Crean tried to play him, he'd be ruining him because he's not ready. If he doesn't play, Crean is an idiot for bringing a guy slowly without minutes. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

is he worse than April?

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

is he worse than April?

Hell no. I get it, IU should have kept the scholarship. But it isn't about who is better between April and some other hypothetical player. That isn't how recruiting in college basketball works...

[8bucks 6,453]

Hell no. I get it, IU should have kept the scholarship. But it isn't about who is better between April and some other hypothetical player. That isn't how recruiting in college basketball works...

I am not sure we should have sat on it but I wish our staff would bring in 3 star bigs and develop them to add to the mix with the 5 star bigs we get on occasion

I would prefer the local three star big vs the out of state 3 star big primarily because of the in state value. We bring in smits and we get pops at the game which is not bad. Then you build a relationship with Zionsville coaches which may pay off later.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

I am not sure we should have sat on it but I wish our staff would bring in 3 star bigs and develop them to add to the mix with the 5 star bigs we get on occasion

I would prefer the local three star big vs the out of state 3 star big primarily because of the in state value. We bring in smits and we get pops at the game which is not bad. Then you build a relationship with Zionsville coaches which may pay off later.

IU is this elite powerhouse... But we need to worry about having connections at Zionsville High? Why? This is fascinating.

There is no question you can't rely on 5 star bigs year after year because they won't be there long. But do you guys think this was his plan? I mean, I think Crean would agree with the thought... It's obvious that it isn't good enough or what anyone would want.

The "in state value" is kind of mythical. If you can play you can play. No one loves the best players like Hulls, cody, yogi, blackmon, etc going to Indiana more than me; but it is much more complex than "go get the best players from Indiana." They have to want you too. This staff has been exhaustive in recruiting Indiana. Yet it's a constant criticism. Do others not see how much of a fallacy that is? You can't get every single freaking one and it isn't fair to look at it in hindsight. We aren't picking who we get...

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,386]

He's soft, and would not contribute to a level as a freshman that the fans demand. If Crean tried to play him, he'd be ruining him because he's not ready. If he doesn't play, Crean is an idiot for bringing a guy slowly without minutes. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

this isn't really true. Holt and Hoetzel aren't great players this year but our fans are smart enough to see their potential and realize they could be great players down the road. Holt and and Hoetzel are appreciated for what they can bring later. The fans don't expect instant results unless Crean continues to whiff on every 4 and 5 star recruit he goes after.

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,386]

IU is this elite powerhouse... But we need to worry about having connections at Zionsville High? Why? This is fascinating.

There is no question you can't rely on 5 star bigs year after year because they won't be there long. But do you guys think this was his plan? I mean, I think Crean would agree with the thought... It's obvious that it isn't good enough or what anyone would want.

The "in state value" is kind of mythical. If you can play you can play. No one loves the best players like Hulls, cody, yogi, blackmon, etc going to Indiana more than me; but it is much more complex than "go get the best players from Indiana." They have to want you too. This staff has been exhaustive in recruiting Indiana. Yet it's a constant criticism. Do others not see how much of a fallacy that is? You can't get every single freaking one and it isn't fair to look at it in hindsight. We aren't picking who we get...

isn't viewing recruiting in hindsight the best way to judge recruiting acumen????? If u miss the better players (ie Hammons, Harris, Nic Moore, Bluiett, Irvin, McGary, McIntosh, Dunham) and get the lesser players (Etherington, Hartman, Jurkin, Hollowell) isn't that the definition of recruiting failure?

[The Baby Bull 280]

I am not sure we should have sat on it but I wish our staff would bring in 3 star bigs and develop them to add to the mix with the 5 star bigs we get on occasion
I would prefer the local three star big vs the out of state 3 star big primarily because of the in state value. We bring in smits and we get pops at the game which is not bad. Then you build a relationship with Zionsville coaches which may pay off later.

Plus Indiana guys (as a rule) are pretty good fundamentally That's a good thing. I M O

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

this isn't really true. Holt and Hoetzel aren't great players this year but our fans are smart enough to see their potential and realize they could be great players down the road. Holt and and Hoetzel are appreciated for what they can bring later. The fans don't expect instant results unless Crean continues to whiff on every 4 and 5 star recruit he goes after.

I'm not sure what you mean by that last sentence, doesn't make sense.

In talking about Smits, I was referring to the sentiment that it's as easy as Crean taking him to fix our center issue because he's an Indiana kid with lineage. Problem is, IU did their evaluation. Just as Purdue, butler and so on did... Guess what? He ain't good enough. These hypotheticals are pointless; it's easy to say what moves would make sense after the fact. I'd say IU made the right call taking who they did in '15

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

isn't viewing recruiting in hindsight the best way to judge recruiting acumen????? If u miss the better players (ie Hammons, Harris, Nic Moore, Bluiett, Irvin, McGary, McIntosh, Dunham) and get the lesser players (Etherington, Hartman, Jurkin, Hollowell) isn't that the definition of recruiting failure?

m

We aren't picking players.

That list is great; exactly what I'm talking about. It's easy to say that after they establish success in college but the fact is all of those players had major red flags. Indiana decided they didn't fit into their plan at that given stage. There are so many dynamics and variables in recruiting... It's an art not a science.

[8bucks 6,453]

IU is this elite powerhouse... But we need to worry about having connections at Zionsville High? Why? This is fascinating.

There is no question you can't rely on 5 star bigs year after year because they won't be there long. But do you guys think this was his plan? I mean, I think Crean would agree with the thought... It's obvious that it isn't good enough or what anyone would want.

The "in state value" is kind of mythical. If you can play you can play. No one loves the best players like Hulls, cody, yogi, blackmon, etc going to Indiana more than me; but it is much more complex than "go get the best players from Indiana." They have to want you too. This staff has been exhaustive in recruiting Indiana. Yet it's a constant criticism. Do others not see how much of a fallacy that is? You can't get every single freaking one and it isn't fair to look at it in hindsight. We aren't picking who we get...

You said Smits was soft and not ready. April is the same but gives you very little upside. If you have not noticed Zionsville is an affluent Indy suburb capable of attracting some talent.

You said there was no reason to choose Indiana kids vs out of state and I provided two good reasons. Not rock solid absolutes but worthy of discussion but you now are taking this down a different rabbit trail. We were talking about the last few guys on the roster so why switch this to a debate on the best players in Indiana.

Since you lumped me into a big category I will do the same with you. Why can't you simply say you know what, it might have been better to bring in a guy like smits vs April. Instead you act like a lot of other Crean defenders and cannot even agree on any things that might possibly be faults or errors.

You lose credibility when you cannot even discuss ideas

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,386]

I'm not sure what you mean by that last sentence, doesn't make sense.

In talking about Smits, I was referring to the sentiment that it's as easy as Crean taking him to fix our center issue because he's an Indiana kid with lineage. Problem is, IU did their evaluation. Just as Purdue, butler and so on did... Guess what? He ain't good enough. These hypotheticals are pointless; it's easy to say what moves would make sense after the fact. I'd say IU made the right call taking who they did in '15

it makes sense. I'm saying fans don't expect 3 star guys to be studs out of the gate but if Crean continues to whiff on every 4 and 5 star player we are going to NEED the 3 star guys that we can actually land to be superstars immediately.

[The Baby Bull 280]

IU is this elite powerhouse... But we need to worry about having connections at Zionsville High? Why? This is fascinating.
There is no question you can't rely on 5 star bigs year after year because they won't be there long. But do you guys think this was his plan? I mean, I think Crean would agree with the thought... It's obvious that it isn't good enough or what anyone would want.
The "in state value" is kind of mythical. If you can play you can play. No one loves the best players like Hulls, cody, yogi, blackmon, etc going to Indiana more than me; but it is much more complex than "go get the best players from Indiana." They have to want you too. This staff has been exhaustive in recruiting Indiana. Yet it's a constant criticism. Do others not see how much of a fallacy that is? You can't get every single freaking one and it isn't fair to look at it in hindsight. We aren't picking who we get...

Who is pickn who we get then ? Or at least who we r trying to get.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

You said Smits was soft and not ready. April is the same but gives you very little upside. If you have not noticed Zionsville is an affluent Indy suburb capable of attracting some talent.

You said there was no reason to choose Indiana kids vs out of state and I provided two good reasons. Not rock solid absolutes but worthy of discussion but you now are taking this down a different rabbit trail. We were talking about the last few guys on the roster so why switch this to a debate on the best players in Indiana.

Since you lumped me into a big category I will do the same with you. Why can't you simply say you know what, it might have been better to bring in a guy like smits vs April. Instead you act like a lot of other Crean defenders and cannot even agree on any things that might possibly be faults or errors.

You lose credibility when you cannot even discuss ideas

I already stated Smits is clearly better than April. I do not support bringing in April. I have never indicated that.

I am with you on the positives of recruiting Indiana vs out of state. I get it. But we can't complain when we aren't elite if we want to take care of these kind of sentimental elements. You don't look at it like, here's how we fill the end of the roster. It isn't so damn basic. Recruiting literally could change day to day.

I'm not here for credibility nor can I expand on every point. Sorry.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

it makes sense. I'm saying fans don't expect 3 star guys to be studs out of the gate but if Crean continues to whiff on every 4 and 5 star player we are going to NEED the 3 star guys that we can actually land to be superstars immediately.

Well I'm sorry you think IU must cater to fans NEEDS, but it just doesn't work that way. We need everybody to be their best self.

This 3 star 4 star crap is so fan boy; it has nothing to do with it. These are people with unique abilities. A lot of coaches that recruited Troy is thought his turnovers would be cancerous to their team; Crean... He saw a kid that had a gift of passing the ball. That's why he's a special coach. All coaches will tell you that he sees things in players and has since he broke into the game at Western. Pretty good for someone who couldn't win the IN HS state title

[8bucks 6,453]

Well I'm sorry you think IU must cater to fans NEEDS, but it just doesn't work that way. We need everybody to be their best self.

This 3 star 4 star crap is so fan boy; it has nothing to do with it. These are people with unique abilities. A lot of coaches that recruited Troy is thought his turnovers would be cancerous to their team; Crean... He saw a kid that had a gift of passing the ball. That's why he's a special coach. All coaches will tell you that he sees things in players and has since he broke into the game at Western. Pretty good for someone who couldn't win the IN HS state title

I think Crean can eye talent at times but he has a lot of misses too. All coaches do. Troy had offers from a lot of other programs so Crean was not the only special coach to notice him. [attachment=1713:ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1424570947.206287.jpg]

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

I think Crean can eye talent at times but he has a lot of misses too. All coaches do. Troy had offers from a lot of other programs so Crean was not the only special coach to notice him. ImageUploadedByBtownBanners1424570947.206287.jpg

No doubt about it he has missed! I didn't realize I needed to add that. Not just to you but all of the time. FYI I figure that kind of thing is obvious. No absolutes

Troy had offers, but no one really wanted him in the fall of his senior year. Louisville was there but went with someone else. There wasn't really anyone else..

[The Baby Bull 280]

Well I'm sorry you think IU must cater to fans NEEDS, but it just doesn't work that way. We need everybody to be their best self.
This 3 star 4 star crap is so fan boy; it has nothing to do with it. These are people with unique abilities. A lot of coaches that recruited Troy is thought his turnovers would be cancerous to their team; Crean... He saw a kid that had a gift of passing the ball. That's why he's a special coach. All coaches will tell you that he sees things in players and has since he broke into the game at Western. Pretty good for someone who couldn't win the IN HS state title

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not ? Troy a gift of passing ?

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not ? Troy a gift of passing ?

See, the old IU crowd doesn't see it...

Troy, when he concentrates, sees the game. He's frustrating when he is loose. Part of his growth.

[8bucks 6,453]

No doubt about it he has missed! I didn't realize I needed to add that. Not just to you but all of the time. FYI I figure that kind of thing is obvious. No absolutes

Troy had offers, but no one really wanted him in the fall of his senior year. Louisville was there but went with someone else. There wasn't really anyone else..

Maybe we just disagree on expectations. Do you think we should expect to have a program that at a minimum is on par with Wisconsin, OSU and MSU?