Upset with recruiting?

[The Baby Bull 280]

See, the old IU crowd doesn't see it...
Troy, when he concentrates, sees the game. He's frustrating when he is loose. Part of his growth.

He can be a great player. Great athlete but a great passer not so much at this point. Can't shoot either. Needs another year. I wish we had a great passer.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

Maybe we just disagree on expectations. Do you think we should expect to have a program that at a minimum is on par with Wisconsin, OSU and MSU?

Hell no! But those programs are clearly above us in this day and age, so we should worry about becoming that consistently good before we even consider talking about our next national title.

It's not about lowering the bar; it's about being real about who you are.

Where IU basketball is today is sad as hell, but running a guy out isn't going to help that. We have a long way to go, and changing coaches yet again seems a little chicken little. Let's not be the Jets or Cubs.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

He can be a great player. Great athlete but a great passer not so much at this point. Can't shoot either. Needs another year. I wish we had a great passer.

Didn't say he was a great passer. Definitely needs another shoot because he can't shoot or guard anyone of caliber.

He is starting to match his vision with fundamental skill. He's still just a sophomore. He's starting to really get it and it's pretty fun to watch him bloom.

[Five Prime 1,093]

No doubt about it he has missed! I didn't realize I needed to add that. Not just to you but all of the time. FYI I figure that kind of thing is obvious. No absolutes

Troy had offers, but no one really wanted him in the fall of his senior year. Louisville was there but went with someone else. There wasn't really anyone else..

So Crean gets the 4 star kid that "no one really wants"? I don't know. I feel this is another spin to fit this particular argument. And if nobody wanted him it implies Crean gets the "leftovers", which I'm sure isn't the case because Crean is a recruiting wizard.

I don't have the time to post on this forum much, but I read here and there. It seems obvious to me that you have some vested interest in Crean's regime. I'm not sure why and don't really care as I prefer message boards to be anonymous. You are quick to refute arguments, sometimes logically but usually sarcastically or tangentially, that do not align with your agenda. You rarely agree with anyone or have constructive conversation.

[8bucks 6,452]

Hell no! But those programs are clearly above us in this day and age, so we should worry about becoming that consistently good before we even consider talking about our next national title.

It's not about lowering the bar; it's about being real about who you are.

Where IU basketball is today is sad as hell, but running a guy out isn't going to help that. We have a long way to go, and changing coaches yet again seems a little chicken little. Let's not be the Jets or Cubs.

I think we should expect to be on that par but we do agree that where IU is today is discouraging.

So we have Crean to consider. Is he the guy to get us there? I was an avid supporter during the rebuild but the sustain years here have me doubtful. Honestly had we kept Luke or had Lyles remained committed I think we are a lot closer. However, they did not and dealing with those kind of losses are not unique to us.

What is your timing then to have a good evaluation? After this year? Next? Longer?

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

I think we should expect to be on that par but we do agree that where IU is today is discouraging.

So we have Crean to consider. Is he the guy to get us there? I was an avid supporter during the rebuild but the sustain years here have me doubtful. Honestly had we kept Luke or had Lyles remained committed I think we are a lot closer. However, they did not and dealing with those kind of losses are not unique to us.

What is your timing then to have a good evaluation? After this year? Next? Longer?

I don't know what timing if any would be fair to evaluate, as it would take a pretty serious study of many programs. IU doesn't exist in a vacuum.

The fact is, the guy ain't getting 10 years here if things don't change drastically. Whether it's justified or not, that's how it works. He will get next year and most likely the next. I am good with that. After that, there will be a change if there's no FF. That is not my prerogative but rather how I think it might go.

I don't think it's as simple as looking at who the guy is. It could be a number of people. It could be Stevens, it could be Crean, it could be Dane Fife. It could be some guy we've never heard of. I think some here think I believe Crean is some perfect coach for IU and only he could lead the way, but I just don't. He came here, stayed when he had chances to leave, and has fought every single day for 7 years to get this program back to respectability. He does it the right way. He does it the only way he knows how, all out. I gotta respect that man.. Maybe it's not good enough for some, but I'm proud to have Crean as our coach. I really am. I guess that makes me a mediocre loser.

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,381]

This particular thread is about recruiting. Let's look at our LAST 5 additions. (38% of the team/scholarships)

Hoetzel- mildly recruited, unheralded. Likely a good long term solution, but missed on many, many targets and needs first.

April- no comment needed

Priller- no comment needed

Ziesloft- good shooter, good kid. Decent pick up but missed many other better prospects.

Holt- good last minute find. Mediocre player currently with good chance to be a contributor. Limited ceiling due to athleticism. A decent band aid fix for previous recruiting misses.

In summary, our past 5 "recruits" or 40% of our team is made up of guys that recruiting gurus had never even heard about.

If this doesn't spell recruiting problems, what does???

[8bucks 6,452]

I don't know what timing if any would be fair to evaluate, as it would take a pretty serious study of many programs. IU doesn't exist in a vacuum.

The fact is, the guy ain't getting 10 years here if things don't change drastically. Whether it's justified or not, that's how it works. He will get next year and most likely the next. I am good with that. After that, there will be a change if there's no FF. That is not my prerogative but rather how I think it might go.

I don't think it's as simple as looking at who the guy is. It could be a number of people. It could be Stevens, it could be Crean, it could be Dane Fife. It could be some guy we've never heard of. I think some here think I believe Crean is some perfect coach for IU and only he could lead the way, but I just don't. He came here, stayed when he had chances to leave, and has fought every single day for 7 years to get this program back to respectability. He does it the right way. He does it the only way he knows how, all out. I gotta respect that man.. Maybe it's not good enough for some, but I'm proud to have Crean as our coach. I really am. I guess that makes me a mediocre loser.

I agree with just about everything but am not sure he gets three more years.

To stay I don't think he has to have a FF in that time frame but will need to keep us in the top tier of the BT. By the end of 2016 if we have two top tier BT finishes, two NCAA tournaments and are set up to expect to build on that in 2016/17 then he gets the third year. If we have a drop off, miss the tourney or it looks like the 2016/17 season will be a drop off then it will be time.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

I agree with just about everything but am not sure he gets three more years.

To stay I don't think he has to have a FF in that time frame but will need to keep us in the top tier of the BT. By the end of 2016 if we have two top tier BT finishes, two NCAA tournaments and are set up to expect to build on that in 2016/17 then he gets the third year. If we have a drop off, miss the tourney or it looks like the 2016/17 season will be a drop off then it will be time.

I said I think he will get the next two, not the third unless they go deep. I'm surprised you think that he doesn't need a FF. That is not the sentiment of most around here. This is IU, after all

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,381]

I said I think he will get the next two, not the third unless they go deep. I'm surprised you think that he doesn't need a FF. That is not the sentiment of most around here. This is IU, after all

speaking for myself, it's not about some fluke FF run. It's about having a program that gets national respect and is expected to be a contender most years. Not unranked and 10th predicted in our conference with 2 McD AAs. You talk about how respected Coach Crean is but he wasn't even listed in the recent top 50 coach ratings and our preseason predictions speak volumes of Crean's true Value. Look at MSU and Michigans preseason ratings. That's perceived respect for the coach of the program.

On top of it all, Crean had all of 2015 to recruit the answer to our roster management issues and has failed. Time is running out.

[8bucks 6,452]

I said I think he will get the next two, not the third unless they go deep. I'm surprised you think that he doesn't need a FF. That is not the sentiment of most around here. This is IU, after all

In time he will need the FF and I think if he can consistently have is in that top tier in the BT the FF will happen too.

I also think there are many here that are arguing for a FF soon but instead are more concerned that we may not be mirroring that top tier. When things go well like in 2012/13 we can but the question we have is how often will we have the years like last year?

Now the FF comes up because of the ending to the 2012-13 year but with more opportunities that will fade.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

speaking for myself, it's not about some fluke FF run. It's about having a program that gets national respect and is expected to be a contender most years. Not unranked and 10th predicted in our conference with 2 McD AAs. You talk about how respected Coach Crean is but he wasn't even listed in the recent top 50 coach ratings and our preseason predictions speak volumes of Crean's true Value. Look at MSU and Michigans preseason ratings. That's perceived respect for the coach of the program.

On top of it all, Crean had all of 2015 to recruit the answer to our roster management issues and has failed. Time is running out.

You can't find the answers on the computer or espn.com.

I'm talking about people. Real people in basketball on the ground. People that deal with coaches and know what it's like. Who gives a sh!t where we are predicted to be or who respects us? You guys really care about rival fans making Crean jokes? How old are you? The people that know respect Crean and respect how he's doing at IU. Anyone can see it's a struggle. You guys act like this was the plan, to make IU an every so often team. It amazes me. We all want better. The hard part is doing it.

Let's just not get too big for our britches.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

Wayne who in the hell did you want him to sign?

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,381]

Wayne who in the hell did you want him to sign?

Welp, just about Anyone else we targeted initially. 5 spots. I'll play.

Hoetzel------Goodluck
Priller-------Bluiett
April-------Devin Robinson
Ziesloft (transfer)---- Anthony Lee
Holt (late signee)-----Holt was fine but I might as well be greedy. Haas.

How about that?? Even 1 or 2 of these guys would have been huge.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

Welp, just about Anyone else we targeted initially. 5 spots. I'll play.

Hoetzel------Goodluck
Priller-------Bluiett
April-------Devin Robinson
Ziesloft (transfer)---- Anthony Lee
Holt (late signee)-----Holt was fine but I might as well be greedy. Haas.

How about that?? Even 1 or 2 of these guys would have been huge.

Lol oh my god Wayne.

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,381]

Lol oh my god Wayne.

i know you don't get all those guys. I played along to emphasize how many misses we had. Landing 1 or 2 of those guys is likely enough.

Give me Holt, Hoetzel, Goodluck, Lee, Zieloft.

That would have been excellent!

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

i know you don't get all those guys. I played along to emphasize how many misses we had. Landing 1 or 2 of those guys is likely enough.

Give me Holt, Hoetzel, Goodluck, Lee, Zieloft.

That would have been excellent!

It's just funny because Robinson and Goodluck have struggled mightily adjusting to the physical nature of college ball. Sounds familiar...

Bluiett, let's just say there is one way IUs defense could actually be worse...

Anthony Lee is a bum. Probably better off without his attitude.

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,381]

How about this. You defend our last 5 signings to me and tell me why I shouldn't be worried as hell with our recruiting? Indulge!

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

Morgan and Anunoby are nice pieces. Priller and April were reaches, but I won't be that upset about them unless they are back next year. Holt and Hoetzel are also nice pieces.

We already have the crux of our team going forward. Blackmon, Johnson, Holt, Hartman, Williams, the 2015s, need to land a couple of interior guys now.

The recruiting isn't about what it's rated or how we compare to other schools. All that matters is what they do while they're here. If you haven't noticed, we are all over 2016, 2017, 2018, but everyone is in a holding pattern because of the status of fan unrest. See how stupid and counterproductive the outrage is? If we make a change, then that coach will be so far behind like Crean was coming in and we will miss on all of these guys IU has invested time in...

[LIHoosier 26,205]

DAMN, I wish we could teach Max to do this!!!  lol  That would fire things up!  :yes:

Unfortunately, I think it would work out more like this...

 

http://youtu.be/1ZXHsNqkDI4