Indiana won't be Indiana until it wants to be Indiana

[BGleas 7,880]

That's being pretty liberal with the word "sustained". I could then say Mike Davis has had more sustained tournament success at IU because he's won more tourney games over his IU career. Neither coach has been able to prove they can sustain high-level success at IU. Crean still has times to prove it. 

 

I'm down on Crean, but am less down than others, but since you're playing devils advocate IMO you're making comments to defend Crean that are a little over-the-top "like 'by far more successful'" which is causing the barrage of responses you're getting. 

 

Completely get your "have a beer" comment. We're all just discussing backetball/IU, it's fun. 

 

By definition, they sustained success. What did Davis do to follow up 2002?

I'm mainly playing devils advocate. If we had beers, I think my point of view would look a lot different than it does on here.

I don't understand why fans think supporting Coach is settling for mediocrity. No one has higher expectations than him!

[jonz44 805]

Mike Davis had a conference championship and final game run which is more than Tom Crean in the modern era

Actually just about equal...but I agree with your thought process.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

That's being pretty liberal with the word "sustained". I could then say Mike Davis has had more sustained tournament success at IU because he's won more tourney games over his IU career. Neither coach has been able to prove they can sustain high-level success at IU. Crean still has times to prove it.

I'm down on Crean, but am less down than others, but since you're playing devils advocate IMO you're making comments to defend Crean that are a little over-the-top "like 'by far more successful'" which is causing the barrage of responses you're getting.

Completely get your "have a beer" comment. We're all just discussing backetball/IU, it's fun.

I say a lot of things tongue in cheek that go below the radar ha

We all want better for IU basketball. I just look at it like, we are coming out the other side now... And another 5 year rebuild with a new style of play will only make things worse.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

I definitely think IU could do better than Crean. He's not an elite coach. Personally I feel he is an excellent fit at Indiana because his system needs skill and shooting. He doesn't cheat. He is one of the best with academic monitoring. His players are class people with the exception of a few who have displayed their immaturity. There's just a lot to like. He develops guys. He sees things in players; has a real gift for seeing how guys will help them. He just needs to trust himself more and not be so self conscious. He's a good coach. He over coaches too much, but he's a good coach.

[Magnanimous 4,516]

Wisconsin is the best team in the country besides UK... Why is it so surprising we couldn't stop their bigs? What defense would you have played?

We are not in danger of missing the tourney unless we lose more than once at home. IU has worked ahead...

We need to advance in the tourney to get experience for next years team.

 

Winning a couple of tournament games isn't what is going to improve next year's defense and get us a center. If we make the tournament and get the type of seed most fans are expecting, we're going to be facing mid-level power 5 teams and upper tier A10 teams that we can play with. I would not put it past this team to make the SW16 this year. A SW16 appearance is nice, but it can be misleading. Stanford and Dayton both made the SW16 last year. I wouldn't say either of them are building annual contenders.

 

Placing too much emphasis on one or two mini-tournament runs is what kills programs. That's why John Groce is coaching at Illinois right now, and that is why Illinois most likely isn't going to amount to much under him. You have to look at the broader picture of their body of work and ask yourself if this guy can build consistency.

[HoosierAloha 30,024]

. These "unrealistic" hiring happen more than most think. I'm convinced that the biggest obstacle in bringing Stevens to Bloomington is Crean's contract. I don't think the Boston Celtics themselves are the biggest obstacle. I'd agree with you that the odds are certainly not very likely, BUT that didn't stop Alabama, Michigan, O$U in football and UK, KU, UNC in cbb. They went into talks with these coaches with a "not taking no for an answer" approach. The Brad Stevens to Indiana rumor is looking almost identical to the rumors of Harbaugh to UM and Saban to Bama, at the early stages anyways. I definitely think Crean is our coach for this season and the next but never underestimate the power of a an angry mob. The More pro Crean crowd argues that dismissing him without following with the homerun hire, does more harm than anything. I agree, that if that's how it turns out, it's a bad deal. It's like investing. High risk has the potential for major loss or major gain. My risk tolerance is very very high. I completely understand and respect those who have little tolerance for risk, but I think it's time for Indiana U. to push all of the chips in the middle of the table. It's that time IMO. I've been harsh on Crean the last 2 years and I shouldn't have been. My frustration should have been directed more towards the administration for not having the same thirst and sense of urgency that the fanbase has. Crean will always have his place here in Indiana. I just think, at this point, that many fans can see that his ceiling is below their expectations and are frustrated carrying on.

 

That may be true the biggest obstacle in bringing in BS is the buyout.  However, what looks to you and other 'fans not settling for mediocrity' looks completely different to other potential coaches.  We as fans think it is as simple as bring in a coach that will get it done.  Two years removed from the first outright B1G championship and back to back Sweet 16s the coach is gone.  Maybe we're lucky enough that all the players stay and we're competing for a title in year 3 or 4 years.  What happens if that coach has a down year in year 5 because several of his top players left or graduated?  Hey, it's okay because he had back to back title runs with Butler or won two titles with a different program.  Maybe everything goes as planned and he hangs #6 the first few years.  If he doesn't?  What should the AD do to appease the fans?  I'm all for saying on a forum I would fire my coach to attempt to go after a big fish that might get it done but in practice...?  I'm not sure it sends the right message.

 

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

Winning a couple of tournament games isn't what is going to improve next year's defense and get us a center. If we make the tournament and get the type of seed most fans are expecting, we're going to be facing mid-level power 5 teams and upper tier A10 teams that we can play with. I would not put it past this team to make the SW16 this year. A SW16 appearance is nice, but it can be misleading. Stanford and Dayton both made the SW16 last year. I wouldn't say either of them are building annual contenders.

Placing too much emphasis on one or two mini-tournament runs is what kills programs. That's why John Groce is coaching at Illinois right now, and that is why Illinois most likely isn't going to amount to much under him. You have to look at the broader picture of their body of work and ask yourself if this guy can build consistency.

Resumes don't coach; people do. We had a dominant team that got banged up and were screwed out of the Indy region. But that team was dominant... It was far better than any team he had at Marquette. In his career so far at Indiana, he's shown quite a lot to make me think he has the ability to get it done. He got it going out of the abyss, why can't he get out of this bump in the road? I can never get an answer to that.

[Basketball4iU 2,006]

If you want Crean gone, all it boils down to is this....Stop showing up for games and stop watching them on tv. This is the only way its going to happen. We can bi#$% and moan all we want, but the truth is, as long as people keep showing up, he is gonna be there. Glass is too arrogant to admit he made a huge mistake, and too stupid to hire a new coach that is worth anything. Might as well ride this out, its gonna be a bumpy one.

Even Fischer and Dakich were dancing around their words last night...everyone is walking on eggshells...even in the gym

[Magnanimous 4,516]

I say a lot of things tongue in cheek that go below the radar ha

We all want better for IU basketball. I just look at it like, we are coming out the other side now... And another 5 year rebuild with a new style of play will only make things worse.

 

If a new coach is brought in, he isn't going to need to build a team from scratch like Crean did in 08. Sure some players will leave, but if IU gets the kind of coach that should be coaching here, it won't take long to get the pieces in place. Basketball isn't football, and in the OAD era, it's rare to have a quality player make his junior year. If you're fearing another 3 year black hole like the one in Crean's first three seasons, that isn't going to happen, especially if we get a guy who has proven what his ceiling is.

[Basketball4iU 2,006]

I definitely think IU could do better than Crean. He's not an elite coach. Personally I feel he is an excellent fit at Indiana because his system needs skill and shooting. He doesn't cheat. He is one of the best with academic monitoring. His players are class people with the exception of a few who have displayed their immaturity. There's just a lot to like. He develops guys. He sees things in players; has a real gift for seeing how guys will help them. He just needs to trust himself more and not be so self conscious. He's a good coach. He over coaches too much, but he's a good coach.

If you only knew

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

If you only knew

I do know, on a first hand basis. You're a joke, and if only you knew what is said about your little Twitter act.

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,000]

If you only knew

my favorite MOST TELLING comment all week.

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,000]

I do know, on a first hand basis. You're a joke, and if only you knew what is said about your little Twitter act.

hmm, so u are Coach Crean or at least his Son??? Haha

Edit: oh, Glass! That's it!

[MikeRoberts 6,921]

I say a lot of things tongue in cheek that go below the radar ha

We all want better for IU basketball. I just look at it like, we are coming out the other side now... And another 5 year rebuild with a new style of play will only make things worse.

with the right hire there would be no rebuild at all. No reason to think there would be. I could site plenty of examples of schools making the right hire and never taking a step back

[Magnanimous 4,516]

Resumes don't coach; people do. We had a dominant team that got banged up and were screwed out of the Indy region. But that team was dominant... It was far better than any team he had at Marquette. In his career so far at Indiana, he's shown quite a lot to make me think he has the ability to get it done. He got it going out of the abyss, why can't he get out of this bump in the road? I can never get an answer to that.

 

The problem is the way he constructs his roster. The 12-13 team was very well balanced. We don't have a big man or new PG in sight. If Crean decided to demonstrate he could build balanced rosters and go after needs I would be more optimistic, but we're filling gaps with 6'7 wing players. This is what happened to him at Marquette post-Wade, and it's what he's doing here.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

If a new coach is brought in, he isn't going to need to build a team from scratch like Crean did in 08. Sure some players will leave, but if IU gets the kind of coach that should be coaching here, it won't take long to get the pieces in place. Basketball isn't football, and in the OAD era, it's rare to have a quality player make his junior year. If you're fearing another 3 year black hole like the one in Crean's first three seasons, that isn't going to happen, especially if we get a guy who has proven what his ceiling is.

It wouldn't be anything close to a black hole. Agreed there. If I were sure IU would do better, might feel different. But IU is liable to screw it up again.

[jonz44 805]

I definitely think IU could do better than Crean. He's not an elite coach. Personally I feel he is an excellent fit at Indiana because his system needs skill and shooting. He doesn't cheat. He is one of the best with academic monitoring. His players are class people with the exception of a few who have displayed their immaturity. There's just a lot to like. He develops guys. He sees things in players; has a real gift for seeing how guys will help them. He just needs to trust himself more and not be so self conscious. He's a good coach. He over coaches too much, but he's a good coach.

WTH?I woke up and I agree somewhat with one of your post! Jk I actually do agree with the gist of this. I think he has done some good things but the level he's at isn't the destination. He has to step it up from where he's at. I do believe that part of that is trusting what he believes in. I also believe a reevaluation of some of his philosophy might be profitable. He maybe doesn't need to ditch his system but he needs to make some adjustments. It's gonna make it break him IMO. People can change but they have to see the necessity of it first. Not sure he does.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

The problem is the way he constructs his roster. The 12-13 team was very well balanced. We don't have a big man or new PG in sight. If Crean decided to demonstrate he could build balanced rosters and go after needs I would be more optimistic, but we're filling gaps with 6'7 wing players. This is what happened to him at Marquette post-Wade, and it's what he's doing here.

You don't know what is going to happen to the roster. The recruiting is not all publicized. No big man or point in sight? Check again later.

[coonhounds 8,794]

I do know, on a first hand basis. You're a joke, and if only you knew what is said about your little Twitter act.

easy tommy! Just kidding. In reality this will all work out and it doesn't matter which side is right. If crean gets next year and fails then he has gad his chance and he should go. This season is not over and it can still b a success but we have to play a lot better than we have been.

[CrossboneIU22 1,180]

I'm not sure what you mean. He won a B1G title with Jordan Hulls as his two guard. I wouldn't say he has stars at every position... That team was great because they exhibited team basketball that hasn't been seen here in a long time.

I think it's reasonable to have concerns, but how can you realistically make statements about game planning and preparation as a total outsider? That I don't understand. This is the problem I have; we have fans who make brash statements that make everybody feel good like "look at us IU fans, we know the game and Crean is in over his head" yet in reality they couldn't be more wrong! Not all of the time but it happens over and over.

I don't know, guys. Too many legends swear by Crean for me to be as sure as you that he has no chance to win here. I wish I could be that sure and that Donavon would come here. But he isn't coming here, and Crean has done too much to make me think this program is going to be a destination for a lot of great basketball to come. Crean keeps getting exposed, and McDonald's All Americans keep coming through the door. It'll come together in time. IU would have had to have every kid pan out and stay to survive the early departures. They missed a few, and now we're young again. This isn't a reason to kick and scream until there's a new coach. This team is going to be a special one...

I don't have to be an insider to see these things play out during the 40 minutes that count. My eyes are all I need to see the things I mentioned.

Also, hulls was a star. One of the best shooters in the country during his time at IU. . Along with Watford as well. Then add in Yogi, and 2 of the top 4 picks, in Oladipo and Zeller. We had one of the best IU teams I have seen at IU and certainly the best starting five in all of college basketball that year and we couldn't even get past the sweet 16.