Recruiting Momentum

[HoosierTrav 7,643]

All fair, objective, accurate?

To me this recruiting concern is not Crean bashing. Maybe there is other reasons for the misses. If so, what are they?

And why do people get so bent out of shape when discussing Crean's faults? I don't get it. I would understand if they weren't factual but MOST of the Crean concerns are mired in fact.

The recruiting dilemma is conjecture at this point but the concerns are valid

I'm not sure what the hell happened, but to deny that recruiting has fallen off of a cliff IMMEDIATELY after sending 3 players to the lottery in consecutive seasons, is purely delusional. Nobody has any idea as to why. Kenny Johnson leaving is just as speculative as the speculation that its because of Crean himself. Crean was able to recruit at a high level before anyone knew Kenny Johnson's name. Crean recruited Cody Zeller and Yogi Ferrell to Indiana without KJ. To blame it on Kenny Johnson leaving is much too convenient for pro Crean people. Like I said, I don't claim to know what is going on but it's definitely something substantial. Do elite coaches miss out on recruits? No brainer! But how many elite coaches go from getting top 10 post guys to not even getting a top 100 post guy? I cant name one. Bill Self, Roy Williams, Coach K, Calipari, Boeheim, Pitino, etc. These guys miss on targets all the time but always get the next best thing. We went 100 to zero real quick. Adding either Thon Maker, Thomas Bryant, or both will change national perception but I'm not very confident that we'll get even one of these guys to commit. I think we are a solid 3rd in the Thon Maker sweepstakes. I also think the pressure to go to Syracuse from Bryant's mother is going to be too much to overcome when all is said and done. The fact that she is using Troy and Stan's mishaps against us and openly supporting the Cuse, says one thing for certain. She does NOT want her son to come to Indiana. To say my patience is wearing thin would suggest I have any patience left. I'm 28 years old and all I want is to experience some consistent winning at a high level. We are the laughing stock of the entire country. Not a single fanbase out there respects our program as an elite program. NONE. They all make fun of us for bragging about our rich tradition then celebrating sweet 16 appearances and cutting nets down after losses. Sad really. Whats my comeback? Uhhh Uhhh we were awesome before I was born... Beep boop Bop (Head explodes)

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

Partly why recruiting has fallen off to some degree is because the Indiana fan base is psychotic/bipolar and along with bleeding heart media have manufactured the appearance of a program in flux with imminent change upcoming. Recruits don't know if Crean will be at IU, even though he will be, because every coach that is recruiting them is showing them the same things.... including posts on sites like this.

 

This is just a small part of it, but it is influencing parents.

 

Luckily, Crean has this team back in the tourney so assuming we add our center in the spring, the 2016 class should be a good one.

[HoosierTrav 7,643]

Being oversigned by 2 is killing us with Bryant. Giving scholarships to guys like April and Priller can hurt in the long run.

The oversigning is one of those things that make my blood boil. I know I know....."It always works itself out." And it has at this point. I just hate that it happens EVERY.SINGLE.SEASON. Its far too slippery.

[HoosierTrav 7,643]

Partly why recruiting has fallen off to some degree is because the Indiana fan base is psychotic/bipolar and along with bleeding heart media have manufactured the appearance of a program in flux with imminent change upcoming. Recruits don't know if Crean will be at IU, even though he will be, because every coach that is recruiting them is showing them the same things.... including posts on sites like this.

 

This is just a small part of it, but it is influencing parents.

 

Luckily, Crean has this team back in the tourney so assuming we add our center in the spring, the 2016 class should be a good one.

Wow!!!!! Your guy is performing WELL below his pay grade on the recruiting trail as of late and it's our fault? You know what puts all speculation to rest? Winning! His history of mediocrity must be our fault too huh? I'd be interested in an example of how our reactions have affected any parents of recruits. My bet is you have zero to cite. None that will be based in fact anyways. If the reactions of a fanbase had any say in winning or losing recruits, then UK wouldn't have a single McD's AA on their roster. That fanbase is psychotic/bipolar. They wanted Calipari to leave for the NBA after the year they lost to Robert Morris in the NIT. That really hurt their recruiting huh? How about UNC fans? Already talking about removing Ol Roy. Killing their momentum, I know. Would you like to hear the difference between these cases and our own? Those coaches get real results! They've been to multiple final fours, national championships, and even won some. I'd love to believe that the easy fix for his recruiting struggles would be for us all to just blindly worship the guy, but I cant find any evidence that supports your claim to be true. And you are in the very small minority, assuming that we'll add our center in the spring. Tom Crean is not a top 10 coach. He does not deserve $3.5 million every year. Indiana fans are regarded as some of the most knowledgeable fans in the nation. We've witnessed great coaching firsthand at Indiana and we have arguably the best product to watch at the high school level. We aren't fools. We can spot a fraud when we see one. Most of us anyways....................What a desperate cop out. Calling the IU fans out for the failures of duty that he gets paid handsomely to not fu** up.

[mamasa 15,039]

Wow!!!!! Your guy is performing WELL below his pay grade on the recruiting trail as of late and it's our fault? You know what puts all speculation to rest? Winning! His history of mediocrity must be our fault too huh? I'd be interested in an example of how our reactions have affected any parents of recruits. My bet is you have zero to cite. None that will be based in fact anyways. If the reactions of a fanbase had any say in winning or losing recruits, then UK wouldn't have a single McD's AA on their roster. That fanbase is psychotic/bipolar. They wanted Calipari to leave for the NBA after the year they lost to Robert Morris in the NIT. That really hurt their recruiting huh? How about UNC fans? Already talking about removing Ol Roy. Killing their momentum, I know. Would you like to hear the difference between these cases and our own? Those coaches get real results! They've been to multiple final fours, national championships, and even won some. I'd love to believe that the easy fix for his recruiting struggles would be for us all to just blindly worship the guy, but I cant find any evidence that supports your claim to be true. And you are in the very small minority, assuming that we'll add our center in the spring. Tom Crean is not a top 10 coach. He does not deserve $3.5 million every year. Indiana fans are regarded as some of the most knowledgeable fans in the nation. We've witnessed great coaching firsthand at Indiana and we have arguably the best product to watch at the high school level. We aren't fools. We can spot a fraud when we see one. Most of us anyways....................What a desperate cop out. Calling the IU fans out for the failures of duty that he gets paid handsomely to not fu** up.

Easy chief.  It's ok to disagree without getting hostile.  No need to try to make the other party feel stupid or incompetent.  That limits replies and discussion.

[biteoftheapple 4,115]

Most of us would profit realizing SSQ is little more than a troll on this forum. He makes outrageous statements nust to elicit outrage. I for one ignore trolls.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

Wow!!!!! Your guy is performing WELL below his pay grade on the recruiting trail as of late and it's our fault? You know what puts all speculation to rest? Winning! His history of mediocrity must be our fault too huh? I'd be interested in an example of how our reactions have affected any parents of recruits. My bet is you have zero to cite. None that will be based in fact anyways. If the reactions of a fanbase had any say in winning or losing recruits, then UK wouldn't have a single McD's AA on their roster. That fanbase is psychotic/bipolar. They wanted Calipari to leave for the NBA after the year they lost to Robert Morris in the NIT. That really hurt their recruiting huh? How about UNC fans? Already talking about removing Ol Roy. Killing their momentum, I know. Would you like to hear the difference between these cases and our own? Those coaches get real results! They've been to multiple final fours, national championships, and even won some. I'd love to believe that the easy fix for his recruiting struggles would be for us all to just blindly worship the guy, but I cant find any evidence that supports your claim to be true. And you are in the very small minority, assuming that we'll add our center in the spring. Tom Crean is not a top 10 coach. He does not deserve $3.5 million every year. Indiana fans are regarded as some of the most knowledgeable fans in the nation. We've witnessed great coaching firsthand at Indiana and we have arguably the best product to watch at the high school level. We aren't fools. We can spot a fraud when we see one. Most of us anyways....................What a desperate cop out. Calling the IU fans out for the failures of duty that he gets paid handsomely to not fu** up.

 

Easy, bud. I know it's hard to see reality with Brad Stevens sack in your face, but it's simply a fact that the noise surrounding this program has influenced the thinking of recruits and their parents. Not that it is going to cost Indiana, but it has everyone in a holding pattern. THAT is why "recruiting momentum" has slowed. That is the only point I wanted to make.

[XLevel 144]

I don't think shortspacequickness is too far off base here. He's not saying a specific post of ours is causing an issue, but the collective roar from the Crean-bashers is loud enough to make major local and even national media take notice.

Crean may not be the best coach, but we don't have Bobby Knight walking through our doors any time soon. Guys like him are few and far between. I can count the guys like him in college right now on one hand.

[southernindianahoosier 422]

Easy, bud. I know it's hard to see reality with Brad Stevens sack in your face, but it's simply a fact that the noise surrounding this program has influenced the thinking of recruits and their parents. Not that it is going to cost Indiana, but it has everyone in a holding pattern. THAT is why "recruiting momentum" has slowed. That is the only point I wanted to make.

Tom Crean has no control over his team and commands 0 respect from the state of Indiana and a large majority of his fanbase. Which has directly caused IU supporters to voice their opinion. It is Tom's fault he lost the confidence of his fanbase, not the other way around.

Yes, it doesn't help that the fanbase may be hurting his recruiting, but it still falls back on Crean.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

Tom Crean has no control over his team and commands 0 respect from the state of Indiana and a large majority of his fanbase. Which has directly caused IU supporters to voice their opinion. It is Tom's fault he lost the confidence of his fanbase, not the other way around.

Yes, it doesn't help that the fanbase may be hurting his recruiting, but it still falls back on Crean.

These are absolutely ludicrous comments. But they are certainly acceptable as we all have an opinion to share. Where I disagree with most here is that the vast majority of Indiana fans think they know basketball but many truly don't have a clue. There is a huge difference between knowing the game and knowing how to operate a monster of a college basketball program. Anybody can recognize poor play. That's easy to do. Coaching at Indiana isn't the cakewalk some here like to think it is. To think Stevens would walk in here and run the B1G from the jump is such fantasy... it's absolutely pathetic that our fans want to be Butler.

 

On second thought, you're absolutely right that he gets little respect. That's the problem. IU supporters can voice their opinions all they want... the problem is they are blinded opinions. The problem is they often are terribly inaccurate and idiotic thought processes because fans are blinded by recency bias and other variables.

 

It would be a lot easier to take the potshots at Crean more seriously if he wasn't so respected and admired in the basketball community. I'm talking about the people that actually matter--not fans. I, for one, feel lucky to have this man as our coach. It's funny how fans don't recognize that a lot of good coaches can't believe the heat he is getting. They don't see what respect people have for Crean. We hear all the stories about how he rubs people the wrong way. Newsflash, he's a D1 coach--it happens. Knight was no different.

 

If Crean is good enough for Slick Leonard, Ralph Willard, Eddie Fogler, etc.,  he's good enough for me. And he's good enough for Indiana.

[coonhounds 8,728]

These are absolutely ludicrous comments. But they are certainly acceptable as we all have an opinion to share. Where I disagree with most here is that the vast majority of Indiana fans think they know basketball but many truly don't have a clue. There is a huge difference between knowing the game and knowing how to operate a monster of a college basketball program. Anybody can recognize poor play. That's easy to do. Coaching at Indiana isn't the cakewalk some here like to think it is. To think Stevens would walk in here and run the B1G from the jump is such fantasy... it's absolutely pathetic that our fans want to be Butler.

On second thought, you're absolutely right that he gets little respect. That's the problem. IU supporters can voice their opinions all they want... the problem is they are blinded opinions. The problem is they often are terribly inaccurate and idiotic thought processes because fans are blinded by recency bias and other variables.

It would be a lot easier to take the potshots at Crean more seriously if he wasn't so respected and admired in the basketball community. I'm talking about the people that actually matter--not fans. I, for one, feel lucky to have this man as our coach. It's funny how fans don't recognize that a lot of good coaches can't believe the heat he is getting. They don't see what respect people have for Crean. We hear all the stories about how he rubs people the wrong way. Newsflash, he's a D1 coach--it happens. Knight was no different.

If Crean is good enough for Slick Leonard, Ralph Willard, Eddie Fogler, etc., he's good enough for me. And he's good enough for Indiana.

if crean is good enough then I would appreciate if he would win more. Sincerely a stupid ignorant fan who only knows wins and losses.

[coonhounds 8,728]

In fairness I dont feel the momentum is gone from recruiting. Crean had a solid class the last two years. The only thing is we didn't land a center this year but I feel that is just the way it worked out. I will wait till this off season to see how things work out before hitting the panic button.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

if crean is good enough then I would appreciate if he would win more. Sincerely a stupid ignorant fan who only knows wins and losses.

I'm sorry he isn't catering to your needs as a fan. I'm sure he is trying to not win more.

[coonhounds 8,728]

I'm sorry he isn't catering to your needs as a fan. I'm sure he is trying to not win more.

him trying doesn't make him good enough.

[southernindianahoosier 422]

These are absolutely ludicrous comments. But they are certainly acceptable as we all have an opinion to share. Where I disagree with most here is that the vast majority of Indiana fans think they know basketball but many truly don't have a clue. There is a huge difference between knowing the game and knowing how to operate a monster of a college basketball program. Anybody can recognize poor play. That's easy to do. Coaching at Indiana isn't the cakewalk some here like to think it is. To think Stevens would walk in here and run the B1G from the jump is such fantasy... it's absolutely pathetic that our fans want to be Butler.

On second thought, you're absolutely right that he gets little respect. That's the problem. IU supporters can voice their opinions all they want... the problem is they are blinded opinions. The problem is they often are terribly inaccurate and idiotic thought processes because fans are blinded by recency bias and other variables.

It would be a lot easier to take the potshots at Crean more seriously if he wasn't so respected and admired in the basketball community. I'm talking about the people that actually matter--not fans. I, for one, feel lucky to have this man as our coach. It's funny how fans don't recognize that a lot of good coaches can't believe the heat he is getting. They don't see what respect people have for Crean. We hear all the stories about how he rubs people the wrong way. Newsflash, he's a D1 coach--it happens. Knight was no different.

If Crean is good enough for Slick Leonard, Ralph Willard, Eddie Fogler, etc., he's good enough for me. And he's good enough for Indiana.

Crean was "good enough" for slick Leonard etc. in the sense that their top 2 choices said no. (Crean can fulfill the minimum requirements it takes to fill this role)

I know a decent amount about basketball.

I would say his failures to operate a monster of a CBB program has more to do with his inability to win big outside of assembly, his failure to consolidate a splintered fanbase, the fact that he makes IU look dumb every time he is outside the coaches box clapping, his failure to get Bob Knight to return, and the roster and coaching turnover, than it has to do with a iu having a loyal and proud fanbase.

[Hovadipo 53,982]

Crean was "good enough" for slick Leonard etc. in the sense that their top 2 choices said no. (Crean can fulfill the minimum requirements it takes to fill this role)

I know a decent amount about basketball.

I would say his failures to operate a monster of a CBB program has more to do with his inability to win big outside of assembly, his failure to consolidate a splintered fanbase, the fact that he makes IU look dumb every time he is outside the coaches box clapping, his failure to get Bob Knight to return, and the roster and coaching turnover, than it has to do with a iu having a loyal and proud fanbase.

It isn't Crean's fault that a salty old man refuses to reconcile.

[southernindianahoosier 422]

It isn't Crean's fault that a salty old man refuses to reconcile.

No, it's not his fault. What I meant was that the fanbase would be more relaxed towards Crean if he was able to get BK to come back and be recognized.

[Big Bad Wolf 101]

These are absolutely ludicrous comments. But they are certainly acceptable as we all have an opinion to share. Where I disagree with most here is that the vast majority of Indiana fans think they know basketball but many truly don't have a clue. There is a huge difference between knowing the game and knowing how to operate a monster of a college basketball program. Anybody can recognize poor play. That's easy to do. Coaching at Indiana isn't the cakewalk some here like to think it is. To think Stevens would walk in here and run the B1G from the jump is such fantasy... it's absolutely pathetic that our fans want to be Butler.

On second thought, you're absolutely right that he gets little respect. That's the problem. IU supporters can voice their opinions all they want... the problem is they are blinded opinions. The problem is they often are terribly inaccurate and idiotic thought processes because fans are blinded by recency bias and other variables.

It would be a lot easier to take the potshots at Crean more seriously if he wasn't so respected and admired in the basketball community. I'm talking about the people that actually matter--not fans. I, for one, feel lucky to have this man as our coach. It's funny how fans don't recognize that a lot of good coaches can't believe the heat he is getting. They don't see what respect people have for Crean. We hear all the stories about how he rubs people the wrong way. Newsflash, he's a D1 coach--it happens. Knight was no different.

If Crean is good enough for Slick Leonard, Ralph Willard, Eddie Fogler, etc., he's good enough for me. And he's good enough for Indiana.

You are simply wrong. He is not respected by the basketball community. He is not respected by indiana high school coaches, the aau circuit and opposing coaches.

Whether you want to believe it or not, these are the people who matter.You can find a few people to say nice things publicly about anyone. It's what said off record that counts. He doesn't even get the respect of his own players. His own players diss him as a coach and tell others not to come, Vonleh, VJ3, etc. Who else does this happen to?

[Hovadipo 53,982]

No, it's not his fault. What I meant was that the fanbase would be more relaxed towards Crean if he was able to get BK to come back and be recognized.

Maybe, but aren't Crean and Knight cordial? I could be making stuff up, but I thought I read that they communicate every once in a while. People may put it on Crean, but he really has no say in whether RMK comes back. That is ALL on Knight. Kind of unfair if people in the fanbase hate on Crean for that.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

You are simply wrong. He is not respected by the basketball community. He is not respected by indiana high school coaches, the aau circuit and opposing coaches.

Whether you want to believe it or not, these are the people who matter.You can find a few people to say nice things publicly about anyone. It's what said off record that counts. He doesn't even get the respect of his own players. His own players diss him as a coach and tell others not to come, Vonleh, VJ3, etc. Who else does this happen to?

Perfect example of what I mean by people here manipulating the truth to fit their negative agenda. That is a 100% fabrication regarding Vonleh and Okonoboh. On Verdell Jones... who?

 

You're right--he's not respected by high school coaches. James Blackmon Sr. will just send his kid anywhere. "He could get things out of James that I couldn't..." Think about that statement. JR Holmes and Gene Miiller probably couldn't believe Jordan and Cody wanted to go play for the clapper.

 

This is depressing.